Mentoring

[Toro]

I'm not going to start a poll because - no offense to anybody who has started a poll, but - polls are gay.

I want to know how often young individuals in the Air Force are mentored. I'm not talking about mentoring in the sense of slamming a guy up against the wall and putting a 3000 PSI finger in his chest, I'm talking about - has a SQ/CC, FL/CC, hell...even a 2FL....ever sat you down and mentored you? Has he asked you what you want to do with your AF career? Has he explained to you how the AFPC process works and why you should be smart on it? Has he explained to you why you should take 6-9 minutes a week to scribble down accomplishments to later hand in to your supervisor as OPR bullets? Has he revealed to you his mistakes with hopes that you will never make them?

It occurred to me recently that I was not mentored until about four years ago, and I think that is a horrendous foul. Contrary to SNAP mentality, I blame nobody other than myself for the reason that I should have sought the information. In line with SNAP mentality, I will say that I didn't know I was supposed to seek it. I grew up in an Air Force where the internet did not exist, and as a result I did many things out of ignorance when I came on active duty.

Of all the queep taskers that AF leadership puts put, I would argue that mentoring should be at the top of the list (and $hitcan the rest). Stop holding annual briefings on fire extinguisher safety and tell the leadership (NOT by email) that they need to talk to their troops. Commanders need to pull their guys into the bar (if they still have one), find out their first name and names of their kids, then just listen to them talk and find out their intent for their AF career and help them achieve that goal.

So are the noobs being mentored?

[sky_king]

I've been in for 3 years and haven't been mentored yet.

[Flare]

Twice during my entire 3 year FAIP tour.

[RASH]

Twice in twenty years...

[brickhistory]

I will say that I didn't know I was supposed to seek it.

0 for just shy of 22 years.

I did mentor my Lts and airmen starting about the 7 year point.

Great post. USAF does (always has) a sucky job at preparing officers to be leaders.

If the first time you're leading people is as the Lt Col squadron commander, the institution is as much to blame for the results as the individual.

Support does a better job of putting younger guys in leadership positions at an earlier point, I think.

[KennyB]

I was lucky. During copilot school @ Little Rock, my sim/flying partner was a PHOENIX crossflow dude with many more years in the AF than my 1Lt self. One day I called him to golf (whole lot of free time in basic qual) and he basically said "Don't call me back until you've identified a school and degree for your Masters. If you've got all this time to waste on golf, you should be building something you can use later". Although senior to me, he was a friend of mine at this point. I'll admit that I took that first Masters class while at copilot school simply because I wanted to get back to the golf course. I didn't realize it then, but he was taking the time to at least tell me (I probably retained about 1/2 of it) exactly what you're talking about... here's of AFPC works, here are the things that are important for progression, and most importantly, here are the things I screwed up and don't want you to repeat. I didn't even realize I was being mentored... I thought this guy was way ahead of me and I wouldn't be thinking about these issues for years.

I'm in total agreement; mentorship is a BIG DEAL. Understanding the ropes of AFPC/MPE/AAD/OPRs/PRFs at an early age can get you going in the right direction.

The important thing to remember is that the recipe for success is different for everyone. Not everyone wants to be a Sq/CC or a general... an effective mentor can get to know their subordinates and get them vectored in the right direction for THEM, not a cookie-cutter recipe for what worked for the mentor. As a young pup, it's important to LISTEN and glean what you can and apply what you need for yourself.

Big point from me: I wouldn't be where I am today if someone hadn't clued me in early on. Concur w/Toro: let's stop BSing about fire extinguishing training and information awareness. Use that time to actually help people.

[czecksikhs]

I am 2 years on station at my first assignment, and all I have seen is an Officer Call once or twice to talk about making sure your SURF is correct and how important it is to do SOS/get a masters to set yourself up for IDE. We were all told to submit current ADPs on the portal, but I haven't heard anything back from leadership about where I want to go/do next. My assignment cycle isn't until July or so, but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy so I will pimp the commander sooner than later.

Agree with what's been said above, it's pretty poor form on Ops' part. I'd like to think if I was in a command billet, one of the biggest kicks I would get is from helping SH young cats progress and at least trying to get dirt bags to see the light and not step on their schwanz.

[Guest alfakilo]

Of all the queep taskers that AF leadership puts put, I would argue that mentoring should be at the top of the list (and $hitcan the rest).

In hindsight, I agree completely. I would add that mentoring isn't only an overt act such as counseling or chit chats over a beer. Not that those aren't very effective examples, they are.

By the time I was done, I realized that mentoring was more than interest in subordinates...it was also the daily demonstration of competence in one's job and absolute integrity in making things happen. In my part of the AF, that meant being able to lead a four ship to the range, take all the Lt's quarters, and then being willing and able to tell them why and how that happened. It also meant doing the right thing, not the popular or fun thing. Hand in hand with that, I came to understand that one of the greatest mentoring skills was the willingness to tell the guys that I ######ed up and was OK with them knowing it.

I would like to think that those lessons are still in the minds of the guys and that they have served them well.

[Guest Flyin' AF Hawaiian]

I suppose I should count myself as lucky. My squadron commander during my stint as a casual LT actually took quite a bit of his own time to mentor us new guys. Everything from telling us which base agency could do what to "leadership exercises" where he would present us with scenarios and ask our opinion on it. (What really comes first, mission or people? That type of thing) He was really big on us starting our Master's early and getting PME out of the way.

About once a month he would take us to the club, get a pitcher or three of beer, and just BS with us. He got to know us pretty well and tried to help us out as much as possible. When he found out I wanted Herks out of UPT, he got me talking to one of the flying SQ/CCs who had flown -130s before transitioning to the C-17 so I could learn a little bit more about the lifestyle. He was also really good about getting the ADOs and the younger Captains in the squadron to talk with us and get us into sims and flights when possible.

I'd agree that mentoring of the new guys is very important. I hadn't even been to UPT, but I feel like I got a pretty big leg up on guys who only had to show up once a week to take out the trash. I learned a lot about the way the AF works while I was on casual, and I'd like to think I'll be able to help out the new dudes when I'm a Capt/Maj/whatever.

[pawnman]

No real mentoring, but it has been mentioned in various flight meetings about getting PME/Master's done early, jotting down your various accomplishments for OPR/Awards bullets...

But as for one-on-one mentoring or any kind of guidance about career tracks...Nothing. In 3.5 years.

[ClearedHot]

Lots of mentoring as a kid and some as a cadet, mostly by active duty guys that were friends of my old man.

My very first boss was a Lt Col Navigator who should have been a general officer...phenomenal leader and a great mentor...after him, ZERO mentoring until I was a captain and I met Rainman. The guy literally put him giant claw on my shoulder and set me straight. Say what you want about his gruff persona, but he genuinely gives a damn.

I've made it a point to mentor folks both in my current squadron and outside and I encourage everyone of you to mentor folks below you. There is no downside and you are paying it forward for the next generation.

There is a dude on this board that I met when he was 13 and I did my best to help him through the years. I was at his college graduation and his graduation from UPT. There are numerous folks on this board that I have tried to help. Several of you have been over to the house to have dinner with my family,hell...Rocker and Murph even got to see my kid puke in a Mexican restaurant.

[Wing Sweep]

Best topic I've seen here ever!

Halfway to 20 yrs, and I'm one of the lucky few who has been given mentoring throughout my career (with very few exceptions).

Background: E for 6.5 yrs, O for 3.5 yrs so far.

As an airman, my supervisor (SSgt) took time to ask me what my goals were and how I planned to accomplish them. He had three big pushes (sts): family, primary AFSC, and off-duty education. He wouldn't let me enroll in off-duty classes until CDCs were complete, which I recommend to all airmen. Focus on CDCs and get good at your job first, then work on you educational goals. For those who had no plans, I saw him sit them down and figure out a plan. He was all about his troops succeeding.

As an NCO, I was given leadership opportunities because I asked for those opportunities. No SNCO or officer in his right mind should say no to an NCO who does the same. Give NCOs (I include Senior Airmen) a chance to learn, gain experience, and get better at supervising. This is the experience building time for them, and where they build foundations for future leadership. I liken it to being a dad for the first time. They have been taught and have a genereal idea of what they are supposed to do, but haven't done it yet. They need practice. Those who see being an NCO as a place of higher power usually don't succeed. Those who see it an opportunity to serve and lead their subordinates, do very well. The biggest factors for my success as an NCO, outside of supervising, was to continue my off-duty education and stay in the books (i.e. I knew my job extremely well). Had I stayed on the E side, I'd be moving up very nicely in my career; however, I decided to go to the dark side and trade stripes for bars.

1st half of UPT (T-34s w/ Navy) I received constant advice from IPs. I felt like an officer and was treated like one by IPs. Being treated like a grown up allowed for easy communication between students and IPs. I can't speak to the T-6 side of things in AF UPT, so I'll leave it to those who know and have experienced it. 2nd half of UPT (T-38s w/ USAF), I was treated like a two year old, never told how I was progressing compared to my peers, and felt more like I was going though a high-speed kindergarten where, oh by the way, I also learned to fly a jet. I tried to create opportunities for my supervisor to mentor me, but it usually always returned to the same old story of being told not to suck (sts) so I didn't get bombers. Sheesh, what a narrow view of the big picture! The only redeeming parts of 38s were the friends I made, flying a kick ass little plane, and getting wings after it was over! Some will say that's all I should have expected from UPT, but I think the AF (T-38 side of UPT) could learn a lot about how to treat and mentor new studs from the Navy and I'll leave it at that.

In my current MWS, I have a kick ass Flt/CC that sets us up for success. He knows about our personal lives, tries to fly with us, talks to our flight at least once a month, does real performance feedbacks, and makes himself available for anything that we need to talk to him about. He has talked to me over many beers about what my goals are and what I should pursue for my next assignment based on those goals. He asks other Flt/CC about my situation and tells me what they think, so it's not just one sided mentoring

I think the biggest point is to create your own opportunites for mentorship. If you're not getting what you need from your supervisor, ask. If you ask and show concern for your own career, supervisors will help you. If they don't, talk to your supervisor's supervisor. I've done this before and that's why I've only had a crappy supervisor once for a few short months rather than a whole tour. Make things happen within the bounds of your CoC. If you have a good supervisor, all mentoring will happen naturally, but it sounds like a lot of people don't have that luxury. If you have a crappy supervisor, try to help him become better by creating opportunities for him to mentor you. If that doesn't work, let his supervisor know what you need.

I'm spent.

Edited December 6, 2008 by g2s

[tac airlifter]

Never recieved any, and I've actually asked.

[pbar]

When I was an intel officer, I at least received the ole' performance feedback session via AF Form 724 twice yearly. After I became a WSO, I received hardly any mentoring. When I was in the flying squadron, I was the only Flight CC who actually used a 724 and did regular performance feedbacks. That should be the absolute minimum with regard to mentoring. Mentoring is so much more than an AF form but it's a good start. I was surprised how many pilots and WSOs I met, even field-graders, who had never seen a 724 and didn't know what it was.

It's been my experience if you want any mentoring, you have to seek it out yourself.

[The Kayla]

Does helping spouses count as mentoring? :-)

Cheap is very "mentorish." He is constantly telling guys "Go get your Masters.." or helping out the guys/gals that are new to the AF in general. It is interesting to watch him knock some stars out of people's eyes.. "But the AF said that a UAV tour will only be 3yrs.. so it's only going to be three yrs.." "Dude.. you got stars in your eyes.. guys are being stop lossed right now.. they can't PCS out of the UAV.. it might change, but I wouldn't hold my breath" (That is a true conversation that happened at our dinner table)

Edited December 7, 2008 by The Kayla

[Guest Boom]

I've had two bosses who took the time to mentor me and both went on to make Chief. They told me to do the same because mentoring was/is the right thing to do for your troops. I give each troop I rate on at least weekly mentoring and a minimum of three documented feedbacks (more if they ask for one) during their reporting period. Must of worked since two people I use to supervise are now Officers (one a Pilot) and they still thank me for the "job" I did mentoring them. I just tell them to pay it forward.

[lj35driver]

I've yet to have anyone I would really consider a mentor since becoming an O, even when I've sought it out. Feedback on a 724? Yeah, I usually see that form a few months after and it's been backdated to make the paperwork correct. Getting a straight, consistent answer on what it takes to get promoted from my leadership has been a challenge other than "do your masters/SOS." When I was enlisted, it was pretty clear cut well ahead of time what I needed for my BTZ board and first promotion testing cycle. The person I considered my mentor as well as higher ranking NCOs I worked with ensured it was common knowledge what it took to succeed and move up in the world. As an O, it seems everyone has their opinion as to what sort of jobs/positions/deployments are the right combination to get promoted. I'm about a year and a half from a Maj's board and I finally feel that I have a CC who's doing the right things and providing the guidance to load my PRF for when the time comes.

[Murph]

I've been fortunate enough to have received quite a bit of advice in my squadron; mostly from ClearedHot. As busy as we are, the squadron does a good job looking out for younger dudes.

[TacoJohn]

I was recently asked to write a Letter of Recommendation for the first time....I ended up here and now I am resurrecting this thread.

In hindsight, I agree completely. I would add that mentoring isn't only an overt act such as counseling or chit chats over a beer. Not that those aren't very effective examples, they are.

By the time I was done, I realized that mentoring was more than interest in subordinates...it was also the daily demonstration of competence in one's job and absolute integrity in making things happen. In my part of the AF, that meant being able to lead a four ship to the range, take all the Lt's quarters, and then being willing and able to tell them why and how that happened. It also meant doing the right thing, not the popular or fun thing. Hand in hand with that, I came to understand that one of the greatest mentoring skills was the willingness to tell the guys that I ######ed up and was OK with them knowing it.

I can't put enough emphasis on this. I feel that Knowing your job inside and out and executing your duties and responsibilities in a competent manner is an excellent way to mentor a younger generation. At my first unit this style of mentorship took precedence over the occasional chit chat, beer etc. However there is always a fine line between education and indoctrination.......

As a young typical enlisted dude (TED?) I made it a point to seek out mentorship. When I took up the subject with my supervisor, he then proceeded to tell me that I should emulate the actions of those who excelled in the squadron and that I was in a "self managed" career field and that it would be unwise to go looking for a "Dad". Needless to say I labeled my supervisor somewhat of a dick after our little "mentoring session" and I sought advice from others in the squadron in regards to PME, testing for SSgt etc., only to receive the same reply..."your career should be self managed" Well this was all great, as I became somewhat of a self reliant chap, but I felt the leadership could have done a better job at mentoring the younger folks..and my experience seems to be consistent with others in this thread in that mentorship was almost nonexistent in regards to an actual sit down one on one chat with a mentor in which a legitimate exchange of goals and aspirations actually took place......something that needs to happen IMO.