WSO Strike/Fighter track

[NUKE]

Ok guys, I have a couple questions. Im currently in Pcola for Strike/Fighter training. I will be starting API in a few weeks, so all of my training is still ahead of me. Our only two airframes are Bones and F-15Es. I know we have some Bone guys and Strike Eagle guys on here, my question to you, is what are your pros and cons of your airframes? How many Eagle or Bones slots come through, possibly more E slots? How long is the IFF course? FTU for Strike Eagles is 7 months I believe, how long is it for the Bone? Deployments?

Basically my flightmates and I dont have too much info as of now, im sure we will get more later, but just some basic info from the crews who know whats going on.

[Hacker]

IFF will last about two months, depending on all the normal student flow factors (weather, student load, maintenance, etc).

WSOs will be going through the "D" track, which is 9 total flights;

1 Formation

1 Offensive BFM

3 Defensive BFM

2 High-Aspect BFM

2 Surface Attack

[Toro]

Black Wings,

I can't offer you any information about the Bone, but I'm an F-15E FTU Instructor and can answer any specific questions you have about the Strike Eagle. I don't know how many of each come through Pensacola. You are correct on the course length. Hacker answered the IFF question. Deployments for the most part mirror the AEF cycle.

Your instructors should be the primary source of information - surely none would scoff at you if you asked. Knowing little to nothing about the Bone mission, I can't really give you relative pros and cons, but if you have specific questions about the Strike Eagle mission or FTU details, feel free to PM me.

[Gravedigger]

A friend of mine down at P'Cola for strike nav training just got the BONE, in fact, he siad that his entire class got the BONE sts. I have no idea if this is common or not, but apparently they needed BONE Navs and not a single F-15E WSO. Maybe your class will be all F-15E's...needs of the Air Force.

[Guest Lightninbo]

I know bone guys come here to randolph for their ewo training... but think thats well into the program.

just found my overall course syllabus.

after nasp bone guys come here to randolph I think already winged. 7 training days for the wso bridge, 22 days for intro to ew. 37 training days in advanced ew (includes 2 flights in the mighty t-43 gator and 21 ewo sims) 9 training days in integration... then on to your ftu.

Im not sure but the syllabus says both b-1 and f15e guys do this training.

[Guest gonads]

Howdy Black Wing. I graduated from Randolph in March and I know a little about the Bone training from the doods in my class. The E doods don't go through the EWO school at the 563d. I know thats what the syllabus said Lightninbo, but it ain't true. The Bone doods will finish up their P'cola training, go TDY to Randolph for EWO stoof and then go on to their FTU. And enjoy the 563'd while you are there Lightninbo!

[pbar]

Actually Gonads, the Strike Eagle community is supposed to send 8-10 F-15E WSOs through EWO school a year. However, since they are producing just enough to keep their FTU filled up, they haven't had any they could spare to send here for over a year. I talked to some F-15E instructors who were out from Pensacola last week and they said they are trying to plus up the F-15E slots so they can start sending guys here again. Also, the wait time for the Bone FTU has gotten really long and that would help that as well...

Also, the MC-130H community is pushing to start taking their nav/EWOs from Pensacola as well but I'm not sure as to the status of that.

PBAR

[Guest gonads]

yeah, i had heard that the MC's weren't going to accept any Randolph Navs, but I hadn't heard about the EW's. So, when is the 563d moving to P'cola anyway?

[Dupe]

I'm a WSO at the FTU right now (a few buildings down from Toro). When I went through P'Cola, you got a Strike Eagle if you didn't completely suck.

IFF is 9 rides in two months...so you'll have a fair bit of free time (read: prepare your liver) The good thing is that you can sandbag anytime there's an open 'pit. I learned much more by sneaking into ACM and CT rides than I did on the fragged events.

If you've got any questions about the track, Pensacola, IFF, FTU, or how to teach a pilot to use AFMSS and PFPS...just ask.

[pbar]

We're hearing (right now anyways) that the schools will move in FY10.

[TheInner]

I have a good bud who is a newly MR'ed WSO in the Chiefs and he went through the EW training at Randolph prior to IFF. Just like pbar said they are trying to send dudes through the EWO stuff and my buddy probably just had the dates lined up where he could go through EWO training and still get to his FTU in time.

[F-15E WSO]

There are F-15E WSOs and there are F-15E EWOs. Same job, just additional training for the EWOs. Most EWOs (including the newly MR Chief) don't admit that they are EWOs as they can get railed into perceived bad deals as well as real bad deals (Wing EWO at Kunsan, Prowler tour).

I don't know the number spread but the EWOs are relatively rare in the squadron probably <15% of the WSOs.

[magnetfreezer]

There are F-15E WSOs and there are F-15E EWOs. Same job, just additional training for the EWOs. Most EWOs (including the newly MR Chief) don't admit that they are EWOs as they can get railed into perceived bad deals as well as real bad deals (Wing EWO at Kunsan, Prowler tour).

I don't know the number spread but the EWOs are relatively rare in the squadron probably <15% of the WSOs.

Old thread resurrection... hoping to select soon out of Pcola and they are offering a few Prowlers as a first assignment with F-15E follow on. The AF/USN/USMC instructors here who have done tours in the joint EA squadrons had generally good things to say about it. What are the perceived/actual negatives for AF WSOs going to the Prowler? Would the 3 year delay in starting the B-course be an issue WRT falling behind in experience with the year group?

[Dupe]

Old thread resurrection... hoping to select soon out of Pcola and they are offering a few Prowlers as a first assignment with F-15E follow on. The AF/USN/USMC instructors here who have done tours in the joint EA squadrons had generally good things to say about it. What are the perceived/actual negatives for AF WSOs going to the Prowler? Would the 3 year delay in starting the B-course be an issue WRT falling behind in experience with the year group?

Don't do it. In fact, don't take the EWO pill at all if you can avoid it.

Here are the advantages of being an F-15E EWO: <none>

Here are the disadvantages of being an F-15E EWO: doing a tour as a non-flying mission planner for the B-2 or other LO assets, being a virtually non-flying EWO in a Viper wing that has a crappy locations (all the good locations have a pilot filling the EWO billet), getting non-volled for a counter-IED job on the ground down range, and being a SAM aggressor at Red Flag.

Realize that the EW course at Randolph is geared around manual RWR and ELINT systems. You can rest confident that, much like many things generated at Randolph, your EWO course skills will serve you little in an operational Strike Eagle squadron. While the EW knowledge won't help too much with your tactical skills, it makes you qualified for lots of bad deals (some mentioned above).

I remember when the AF section chief at Whitbey came down to Pensacola to sell us to on EA-6Bs instead of Strike Eagles (this was in late '05). He basically said 'I don't really want new guys and think its bad idea, but I have to recruit guys anyway. Now let me tell you about the Prowler...' That was some sales pitch. You'll get such a bigger picture by being a young F-15E WSO than if you went off to be one of three EWOs in an extremely underpowered EW aircraft.

Bottom line: Go F-15Es. If 'trons make you jizz your pants, then do well and let your flight commander in your ops squadron know you want to go to FECOC (Fighter Electronic Combat Officer's Course). FECOC is much more relevant to tactical aviation than the EWO course at Randolph is. Later on, the EA-6B may be an option for you (if its still around).

Edited February 1, 2009 by Toro
Course details removed

[daynightindicator]

drunk posting....

from the B-1 world... EWO school is EWO school. you will take the classes, take the tests, and complete the sims. Everything you learn is interesting. Some of what you learn is important. Part of what you learn you will apply as a DSO in a B-1. Bottom line - don't discount the training, study and pass your tests, and you will be a better B-1 WSO because of it.

The B-1 FTU is scheduled for 6 months. Due to sortie production and backup, expect 9-12 months at the 28 BS in Abilene.

I have been a B-1 WSO for 2.5 years, deployed twice, dropped a veritable shit-ton of bombs on bad guys, and love it. You can expect to deploy with your ops unit for 6 months out of every 18 (3 ops squads, 365 coverage in theater - you do the math). I'm not even done with my first ops assignment and I'm about to become an instructor and have more combat hours/sorties/weapons drops than a lot of CAF pilots.

Truth about me: I put in for '-15's but didn't get them. Partially due to timing (first class in a fiscal year isn't the best position to be in) but also due to grades in UNT and ability. That being said, I love the Bone and the community. There is no second-class citizen bullshit and we are busy as all hell raining hate on the enemy. Career oportunities and advancement are abundant.

As far as the training post P'Cola. It's easy. Don't take that as instruction to let up in any way, but IQC in the B-1 is less stressful and less difficult than what you experience at the 86th. If you keep the same attitude that got you through P'Cola, you will be fine. Just realize that our jet is stupidly complex and you won't master the systems for years.

If you have any questions about daily life, living conditions or other stuff let me know. B-1s are a good deal, honestly, and we're very in-demand with the currnent combatant commanders. With the addition of our Sniper Pod, we are more relevant than ever and provide an amazing ability to the combatant commander.

[MD]

Related: Why did the AF stop assigning pilots to the joint VAQ squadrons at Whidbey? Just EWOs/ECMOs now (and has been for a few years).

[schokie]

Realize that the EW course at Randolph is geared around manual RWR and ELINT systems. You can rest confident that, much like many things generated at Randolph, your EWO course skills will serve you little in an operational Strike Eagle squadron. While the EW knowledge won't help too much with your tactical skills, it makes you qualified for lots of bad deals (some mentioned above).

Of the entire 4 months of EWO school, manual ELINT comprises about 2 weeks. EWO school is much more than beeps and squeaks. You will know 3-1vol 2 inside and out from day 1 in your ops squadron. You will learn threat reactions, jamming, weaponeering, and HARM targeting. Will EWO school help you with ACM, 4-ship AOR targeting, or GBU-12 employment? No, it will not. Will it make you a more well-rounded aviator who knows their own systems better, other aircraft capes, and enemy capabilities and tactics? Yes, it will.

Much of the bad gouge regarding EW in the Strike Eagle community is because few people know what goes on at EWO school or how to use an EWO properly. All the EWOs we've had we either crusty old EF-111 guys or brand new Lts with no operational experience who just so happened to have gone through Randolph. The recent influx of the Ops to EWO to Ops folks has shown some promise. They are starting to be put in shops and given opportunities for the community to take advantage of their knowledge.

There are bad deals out there no matter what platform or AFSC. EWOs got a bad rap in the Strike Eagle for this because there were so few of them. If a bad deal came up, and you were the only EWO in the squadron, guess who got it? Now that most squadrons have more EWOs there is a strength in numbers. Also, remember one person's bad deal is another person's game changer. We can't all be Weapons School grads or Ops to Ops folks. Being an EWO gives you options. The AF will always need EWOs.

I remember when the AF section chief at Whitbey came down to Pensacola to sell us to on EA-6Bs instead of Strike Eagles (this was in late '05). He basically said 'I don't really want new guys and think its bad idea, but I have to recruit guys anyway. Now let me tell you about the Prowler...' That was some sales pitch. You'll get such a bigger picture by being a young F-15E WSO than if you went off to be one of three EWOs in an extremely underpowered EW aircraft.

I agree that the Prowler community is not best served by getting inexperienced AF bubbas. You joined the AF, so why do you want to fly with the Navy instead? I've learned a lot from working with guys who did the Prowler exchange, but they all already had operational experience first.

The Prowler is an underpowered aircraft when it comes to engines and turn performance, but not when it comes to EW. However, it is going away soon and that exchange might not be available in a few years.

Bottom line: Go F-15Es. If 'trons make you jizz your pants, then do well and let your flight commander in your ops squadron know you want to go to FECOC (Fighter Electronic Combat Officer's Course). FECOC is much more relevant to tactical aviation than the EWO course at Randolph is. Later on, the EA-6B may be an option for you (if its still around).

FECOC is watered down EW. There is nothing to be learned there that you can't learn at EWO school. It's more for F-16 and F-15C guys who are going to be wing ECOs.