Hacker Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 Saw this over on Airwarriors and thought this crowd would appreciate it. This is an "Ask The Captain" column from the Pt Mugu base paper: https://www.aerotechnews.com/ptmuguhueneme/...-01-14T19-52-34 Ask the Captain! By Capt. Brad Conners NBVC commanding officer Question: What is the deal with the gate guards not surrendering salutes to officer’s vehicles? I don’t think an admiral’s wife or your wife would appreciate that either. We’ve worked hard to get here and should be recognized. They learned to recognize your vehicles. On every base I’ve been on they have a sign WE RENDER SALUTES PROUDLY. Here they work on trying not to salute the vehicle if the active duty member is not present. Isn’t it by UCMJ code they are supposed to render a salute to an officer? The vehicle has a sticker so why do they not (salute) whether or not the active duty member is present or not? Fill me in!! DO THEY NOT TRAIN THESE PEOPLE ANY MORE?? If not, I see more and more laxness going on in this military. A CWO wife. Answer: Wow. That’s quite a sense of entitlement you have. Are you sure a salute is sufficient? Perhaps a curtsy or a genuflect would be more appropriate? We could have one sentry prostrate himself before you while the other fetches some oats for that high horse you’re riding. First, the irony of addressing what you perceive to be an issue of respect in such a disrespectful tone is not lost. Secondly, since you specifically brought her into the dialogue, my wife thinks your question indicates a regrettably narrow perspective. Third, yes, we have training which encompasses many things for which a post sentry is responsible and accountable, primarily focused on force protection, anti-terrorism, law enforcement, defense of critical assets and infrastructure, and the use of lethal force. But thanks for asking. Fourth, if you consider standing a post 65-70 hours a week as “laxness,” then I invite you to put on your winter coat and go stand on the asphalt in front of your house for four hours holding your vacuum cleaner when the temperature reaches 85 degrees. That will give you some very small sense of what it is like to man a post, without of course the lethal responsibility. Salutes are a custom between military members dating back as far as Roman times when soldiers approached each other in a manner to indicate they were not armed. The custom evolved over many centuries in many militaries, but it has always been a custom exclusively between military members. It is also important to understand that the salute is a custom of mutual respect, not subservience. That is why both members salute. It is customary (and required under Navy regulations) for the junior to render (not “surrender”) the salute first, but the senior member must return the salute promptly and in the same manner. This tangibly expresses the reciprocal respect among military members. NBVC sentries will render salutes to properly identified officers, active or retired, immediately upon identification. The salute was never intended as recognition of, or as a reward for, your “hard work to get here.” While I certainly value that hard work and your support of your husband’s military career, along with the sacrifice it entails, you ma’am are compensated in other ways for those achievements and accomplishments. You rate many things other than a salute as a dedicated Navy wife, our gratitude, appreciation, and respect among them. I sincerely hope, expect, and require that you are always treated courteously and professionally on our bases. I would ask that you give the sentries their due as well rather than leaping to the most cynical of all conclusions when our execution is imperfect.
Toro Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 Great response. It never ceases to amaze me how many idiot spouses think they wear their husband's rank.
M2 Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 And yet another great reason why to get rid of base decals on vehicles. I wish the other services would wake up to the logic behind that decision, as anytime we try to go to Ft Sam or Camp Bullis here we have to get a temporary pass. As long as the vehicle has a current registration and inspection sticker on the windshield, and the driver has a military ID card, what is the need for the decal? OK, I will admit that when I was a snot-nosed teenager and had a bunch of my snot-nosed buds in the car with me, we would sometimes drive onto the Navy bases near where we lived just to watch the Marine gate guards salute us in my souped-up Pinto hatchback! I knew the Marines would snap our necks like pencils if they could, but we knew they couldn't so that made it even more fun! My wife never liked being saluted, and after we got married she asked what she should do in response. I told her to just thank the guard and wave if she wanted, but since she was not the officer she shouldn't salute back. Luckily, she never tried to wear my rank (not like there was a lot of rank to wear!), but we met plenty of spouses who tried to! But we also met a lot of spouses who made it a point to let us know they did not wear their husband's or wife's rank, but those were people who had more class than the others in the first place. The customs and courtesies of rank belong to the person who earned it, and if you want to extend it to their spouses that is your decision, not theirs. Just my two cents, as usual. Cheers! M2
lj35driver Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 My first sqd CC at KTIK had a way of squashing that crap from the beginning. When he did his spouses orientation, he'd ask them to sit in the auditorium rows according to their rank. He'd tell them, "You all know who the Lt Col's are, then the Maj's in the next row, Capt's, Lt's, MSgt's and so on towards the back." After a few minutes of them floundering around, he started shouting and asking them what the hell did they think they were doing and to sit where they were at. He would then state that if any of them ever tried to wear their HUSBAND'S rank or hold it over another spouse's head, their spouse would report in every morning in blues for a month. Kind of a draconian way to get the point across, but thanks to that, it did away with the rank BS in the spouse's group that has been uber present in all my other sqd's.
Rocker Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 My previous SQ/CC's wife told me she was the commander of the wives during an argument with her about why I asked my wife directly to organize the table decorations for the Christmas party. Mind you, this was right in front of my desk during the duty day. I patronized her in an extreme manner and told her (verbatim) "Gosh, I'm sorry I didn't realize you were a commander, too; I'll be sure to run everything up the chain to you from now on." It ended the argument and she bought it, hook line and sinker, and left with a feeling of accomplishment as my scheduling buddy and I looked at each other in disgust. She and her husband were, to understate it, QUITE unpopular. The Captain's response is measured and poignant and very well written.
The Kayla Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 And yet another great reason why to get rid of base decals on vehicles. I wish the other services would wake up to the logic behind that decision, as anytime we try to go to Ft Sam or Camp Bullis here we have to get a temporary pass. As long as the vehicle has a current registration and inspection sticker on the windshield, and the driver has a military ID card, what is the need for the decal? I couldn't agree more. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall watching this spouse read his response. I think that would have been priceless
Boxhead Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Kinda along these lines....there was a guy I used to work with, had a couple of these types of spouses in a about a week time span, and was getting tired of it. So, one evening after 10pm (this was pre-9/11, but after 10pm, it changed from Decal to 100% ID checks) This lady comes rolling up to the gate...blue sticker, complete with the little blue chicken sticker above it....she looks at him and says, "What's going on....I am used to getting a salute on going on through"...he goes on to explain that after 2200; it's 100% ID checks and that the salute comes after the ID..and spouses don't get saluted.... .69 seconds later she pulls out her DD2AF complete with O-6 on there....It was classic. FWIW, her husband was a total tool who thought he had her rank...
BQZip01 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Kinda along these lines....there was a guy I used to work with, had a couple of these types of spouses in a about a week time span, and was getting tired of it. So, one evening after 10pm (this was pre-9/11, but after 10pm, it changed from Decal to 100% ID checks) This lady comes rolling up to the gate...blue sticker, complete with the little blue chicken sticker above it....she looks at him and says, "What's going on....I am used to getting a salute on going on through"...he goes on to explain that after 2200; it's 100% ID checks and that the salute comes after the ID..and spouses don't get saluted.... .69 seconds later she pulls out her DD2AF complete with O-6 on there....It was classic. FWIW, her husband was a total tool who thought he had her rank... That's gold...
brickhistory Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Great job (sts) by the Navy captain. I would like to have heard the conversation between the real CWO and his wife as well as the comments from the other CWOs on base to this guy.
Fud Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Salutes for spouses=a bitch slap sort of resembles a salute. Edited February 9, 2009 by beast05
Finance_Guy Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 My first sqd CC at KTIK had a way of squashing that crap from the beginning.....He would then state that if any of them ever tried to wear their HUSBAND'S rank or hold it over another spouse's head.....Kind of a draconian way to get the point across, but thanks to that, it did away with the rank BS in the spouse's group that has been uber present in all my other sqd's. So what about reserved parking spaces at the BX and Commissary and various other spots? Should the civilian spouse be allowed to park there without their military spouse? Seems if they would then they are using their military spouses rank.
M2 Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 So what about reserved parking spaces at the BX and Commissary and various other spots? Should the civilian spouse be allowed to park there without their military spouse? Seems if they would then they are using their military spouses rank. Agreed, the decals should be treated like handicap placards; almost appropriate in some cases... Cheers! M2
Boxhead Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 So what about reserved parking spaces at the BX and Commissary and various other spots? Should the civilian spouse be allowed to park there without their military spouse? Seems if they would then they are using their military spouses rank. Nope, I have written many a ticket to spouses doing that exact thing...they all stuck....I did get a "talking to" about it, but I disregarded that talking to in favor of pissing off the man.
Infamous Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) Saw this on another forum and thought you guys would get a kick out of this. I did a search but didn't see it posted. Taken from "Ask the Captain!", Lighthouse newsletter, Jan. 15, 2009. I merged your post into the existing one, simply because you actually included the original article and not just the text. But next time search (you didn't try hard enough, all you had to do is search on the CAPT's name and you would've found it) and if you do post something of this nature, it goes in the Squadron Bar and not under General Discussion... Edited March 27, 2009 by M2 Merged with existing post
F16Deuce Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Wives with that sort of mindset need to be kicked in the baby maker. Just sayin'.
Wolf424 Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 I couldn't agree more. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall watching this spouse read his response. I think that would have been priceless I don't think it would've been as classic as we all would've hoped. If she really thought it necessary to write to this column about her not getting a salute, then her mind is warped enough to brush this off and not think anything of it. You can't fix stupid...
The Kayla Posted November 22, 2009 Posted November 22, 2009 Everytime I drive on to Portsmouth Shipyard, me/the veh is saluted. I know better then to salute back, but what the hell do I do? I asked my husband.. he told me not to wave, that it could be considered a "salute." He suggested saying "Carry on"--But, to ME, that's a command.. and I shouldn't be commanding them to do anything--Make sense? Another thing: The Gate Guards at the Shipyard are civiallian--Why do they salute in general?! I understand that most of them are prior military, but I just don't get it... I feel ackward when they salute, and I just give them the deer in the headlights look.. Thanks Guys!
WheelzUp Posted November 22, 2009 Posted November 22, 2009 Everytime I drive on to Portsmouth Shipyard, me/the veh is saluted. I know better then to salute back, but what the hell do I do? I asked my husband.. he told me not to wave, that it could be considered a "salute." He suggested saying "Carry on"--But, to ME, that's a command.. and I shouldn't be commanding them to do anything--Make sense? Another thing: The Gate Guards at the Shipyard are civiallian--Why do they salute in general?! I understand that most of them are prior military, but I just don't get it... I feel ackward when they salute, and I just give them the deer in the headlights look.. Thanks Guys! Just say thanks and go on about your buisness. It's not THAT big a deal, and the guy is saluting the sticker, not the car, and not you. It's just a guy doing his job and paying respect to a policy that he is required to. IMHO you should enjoy the fact that we "the military" still uphold our traditions and pride in the manner that we do. Don't sweat it. Wheelz
Guest Hueypilot812 Posted November 22, 2009 Posted November 22, 2009 Odd that the civilian gate guards there salute. Here at Little Rock, they civilians don't even salute me when I'm in uniform...and I don't expect them to since they are, after all, civilian. I agree with Wheelz, just say thanks and drive on. Waving, to me, doesn't equal a salute, so if you wave I'd think that's just a friendly gesture, so don't worry about doing that either.
M2 Posted November 22, 2009 Posted November 22, 2009 Honestly, I've never understood the argument that gate guards (military or civilian) are "saluting the sticker"...the car isn't commissioned, is it? It's idiotic, you don't salute the Wing Commander or some general's staff car if their not in it, why POVs? The sticker only indicates that the vehicle is registered to an officer, it doesn't mean the occupant is one and unless the person driving it is one, they shouldn't be saluted. It's ridiculous that a spouse or other dependent is rendered a salute they do not deserve, and now that the USAF has gotten rid of base decals (a smart move), hopefully the only people being saluted when they drive through the gate are those that are suppose to be saluted! Everytime I drive on to Portsmouth Shipyard, me/the veh is saluted. I know better then to salute back, but what the hell do I do? I asked my husband.. he told me not to wave, that it could be considered a "salute." He suggested saying "Carry on"--But, to ME, that's a command.. and I shouldn't be commanding them to do anything--Make sense? Another thing: The Gate Guards at the Shipyard are civiallian--Why do they salute in general?! I understand that most of them are prior military, but I just don't get it... I feel ackward when they salute, and I just give them the deer in the headlights look.. Thanks Guys! Kayla It is OK to give them a small wave, a smile and/or a 'thanks'...the wave will not be misconstrued as a salute. "Carry on" is ridiculous; hell, I don't ever recall ever muttering that anytime in my 25 years in uniform. It is too Army/Marine Corps... And see my previous comment as to what I think the whole thing is ridiculous. The only individuals in the Air Force who warrant a salute are commissioned officers... Cheers! M2
Jughead Posted November 22, 2009 Posted November 22, 2009 I know better then to salute back, but what the hell do I do? Kayla, one suggestion that the previous respondents haven't made is to try flashing the guard. No, I don't know how that fits into the protocol manual, either--but I assure you, we're all eager to hear about the results...!!
brabus Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 No, I don't know how that fits into the protocol manual, either--but Iassure you, we're all eager to hear about the results...!! It's written in AFI 69-6969...Kayla, I can't believe this whole time you've been going against written rules!
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now