C-17 Globemaster vs C-5 Galaxy Reserve lifestyle

[Guest srvmcm]

So I have ran about 20 searches and can't find answers to these.

C-17 and C-5 Reserve units. I know in AD land, you do about 10 day trips and your biannual 4 month tour for C-17s. How about the reserves? What kind of trips and deployments do the reserve C-5 and C-17 squadrons go on?

One more... if you are a part-timer out right out of FTU, what kind of seasoning can you expect from a C-17/C-5 unit? If you're part-time, can you get more trips? Can you afford to live on a part-time heavy reserve slot alone?

Thanks for your help on this...

[Guest Ultimate Tourist]

As a traditional Reservist C-17 pilot at McChord AFB, WA who was hired directly into the Reserves, I can shed a little light on this for you.

What kind of trips and deployments do the reserve C-5 and C-17 squadrons go on?

-In the 446th, if you are on Active Duty orders, you will fly a minimum of one ten day trip per month. Usually this is a trip to the either Iraq or Afghanistan and back. Every now and then (once or twice a month) we get the odd three or four day CONUS or Pacific trip, but these trips usually fill up with traditional Reservists not on AD orders. Currently the 446th is not tasked with any kind of deployments, and to my knowledge, no reserve C-17 unit is presently being asked to participate in the AEF rotations. There are rumors this could change in the future, however, it's unlikely.

if you are a part-timer out right out of FTU, what kind of seasoning can you expect from a C-17/C-5 unit?

You can expect a "prog tour" of a few months right back from Altus, and presently about 6 months of Active Duty OIF/OEF orders per year. You can also expect to be trained and seasoned for Aircraft commander. One VERY big difference in the Reserve is that time to upgrade can take a lot longer than AD, because there is no shortage of experience in the unit. Our unit has a 2000 hour policy, which can be overlooked, and is just a guideline, but is a ballpark number. You can expect to get about 500 hours per year if you work consistently.

If you're part-time, can you get more trips?

Yes, you can get "cut to fit" Active Duty orders to fly one of the ten day OIF/OEF trips anytime you like. You can also fly the occasional drop down mission. (we get about one or two a month).

Can you afford to live on a part-time heavy reserve slot alone?

Absolutely. With six months of Active Duty orders per year, all your traditional reservist training money for currency (locals simulators and ground training), orders for upgrade TDY's, and cut to fit orders, you can make enough money to live comfortably. That being said, there is no guarantee OIF/OEF orders will be offered in the future, and units make no promises to take care of you.

You will make a lot more money active duty, but you will also earn every bit of it.

[Guest srvmcm]

That info sounds as good as gold. I'll be working my butt off as much as they'll let me. I appreciate the help.

Anyone have any info on C-5 reserves and/or guard?

[scoobs]

Are the pop up trips usually the same locations? What about for the Guard units?

Edited February 18, 2009 by scoobs

[CPE1704TKS]

As a traditional Reservist C-17 pilot at McChord AFB, WA who was hired directly into the Reserves, I can shed a little light on this for you.

What kind of trips and deployments do the reserve C-5 and C-17 squadrons go on?

-In the 446th, if you are on Active Duty orders, you will fly a minimum of one ten day trip per month. Usually this is a trip to the either Iraq or Afghanistan and back. Every now and then (once or twice a month) we get the odd three or four day CONUS or Pacific trip, but these trips usually fill up with traditional Reservists not on AD orders. Currently the 446th is not tasked with any kind of deployments, and to my knowledge, no reserve C-17 unit is presently being asked to participate in the AEF rotations. There are rumors this could change in the future, however, it's unlikely.

if you are a part-timer out right out of FTU, what kind of seasoning can you expect from a C-17/C-5 unit?

You can expect a "prog tour" of a few months right back from Altus, and presently about 6 months of Active Duty OIF/OEF orders per year. You can also expect to be trained and seasoned for Aircraft commander. One VERY big difference in the Reserve is that time to upgrade can take a lot longer than AD, because there is no shortage of experience in the unit. Our unit has a 2000 hour policy, which can be overlooked, and is just a guideline, but is a ballpark number. You can expect to get about 500 hours per year if you work consistently.

If you're part-time, can you get more trips?

Yes, you can get "cut to fit" Active Duty orders to fly one of the ten day OIF/OEF trips anytime you like. You can also fly the occasional drop down mission. (we get about one or two a month).

Can you afford to live on a part-time heavy reserve slot alone?

Absolutely. With six months of Active Duty orders per year, all your traditional reservist training money for currency (locals simulators and ground training), orders for upgrade TDY's, and cut to fit orders, you can make enough money to live comfortably. That being said, there is no guarantee OIF/OEF orders will be offered in the future, and units make no promises to take care of you.

You will make a lot more money active duty, but you will also earn every bit of it.

Ultimate Tourist,

Do you have any airline guys that fly for your unit part time? I'm curious how a full time airline job would work with being on active duty flying status for 6 months/year, even if you're just a traditional reservist. I'm looking to eventually fly for Continental out of Cleveland (if/when they start hiring again), and applying to the 445th AW which flies C-5s out of WPAFB.

Thanks in advance.

[Guest AirGuardian]

Are the pop up trips usually the same locations? What about for the Guard units?

As a member of the only Guard C-17 unit without AD on board this answer is for our unit specifically.

We have a bunch of folks on orders flying alot doing sandbox quickturn runs in both the areas "Ultimate Tourist" mention in his post. Granted, we tend to stick to 5 day runs vs the 10 days mentioned at "UT's" unit. We maintain very solid runs for people to plan their lives around which keeps them happy, able, and willing.

We have S. America runs on a normal basis as well as the pop up trips to areas all over the U.S. mostly Guardlift which is nice. We hold the reigns on those pretty much and not Big Blue during the missions themselves.

Every so often we land a Pacific run which is a good change from our European Vacation extravaganza we've been doing for nearly 4 years now.

Overall, as a Reservist or Guard unit it really comes down to Current Ops getting the missions which our pilots really enjoy.

Guard "Bumming" or Reserve "Troughing" (Part-Time Flying living alone) can be done rather well if you remain available to schedulers like myself. We cater to those who fly for money and other attributes each mission garners.

Traditional Pilots with jobs at other airlines fly alot with us and are able to maintain currency in both jets rather well and are able to enjoy missions which fit their work schedule - that's my job to ensure they have what they need/want to keep them coming back... It's great having the experience level of both Traditional Heavy Airline guys and our Full-Time forever Pilots bringing ideas and foresight to the jet itself. I myself am a full-time Tech at my unit and enjoy flying with the Airline guys just to get a different perspective of what the civilian sector enjoys or doesn't as well as their experience.

Note: We also have close ties with the Altus C-17 Instructors/Evaluators who fly with us every once in awhile. Gives us time off for our high-time flyers filling holes and more perspective on what's being taught/emphasized at the school house while the Altus folks seem to enjoy escaping the runs around the flagpole on a weekly basis as well as the tax-free benefits. Great interfly agreement that both sides gain from.

Overall, I firmly believe we have the best of both worlds and I wouldn't trade it for anything right now.

Edited February 19, 2009 by AirGuardian

[Guest srvmcm]

Some really helpful info on this forum.

I'm not sure I understand how these Active Duty orders work for heavy guard/reserve jobs. Do you have to be at the squadron daily when you're not flying? I guess I'm just a little confused here. If you live about 2 hours from the reserve location how would AD orders work?

[Guest AirGuardian]

Some really helpful info on this forum.

I'm not sure I understand how these Active Duty orders work for heavy guard/reserve jobs. Do you have to be at the squadron daily when you're not flying? I guess I'm just a little confused here. If you live about 2 hours from the reserve location how would AD orders work?

Units mandate specific needs mind you,

But, in our case - those who are on AD orders and not already full-time Guard Employees like myself, do not have to come in daily by any means. If the unit requires them for something, i.e. - full timer shift coverage, aircraft tours or other sideline tasks, then Yes we do call them to do some in-house work. For the most part they are expected to fly the missions we've gained AD orders for and anything else we might need them to fly last minute. Most of the time we can forcast at least a month out or two on the books for them to plan their lives around. But, if a Big Blue mission drops in unannounced, or a mission shifts to the left or right, we expect them to step up and fly.

Several of our folks are over an hour away so they have secured an apartment/hotel locally under these orders. It gives them the flexibility not to drive home after a long mission that arrives back at homestation at 10PM or later/ or early hours in the morning (sometimes, they stay to get some local training in as well and don't rush off.) Its just the safest way to conduct business. Many drive home 2, 3, 6 hours away to be back with the family for a few days before the next mission. Granted, all flyers are expected to maintain currency requirements; therefore, they will come in and get on the schedule to fly locals / Sims, accomplish Ancillary Training, Drill Weekends(if they need specialized items), Physicals, get vaccinations, etc. It's really a good deal overall on how take care of our own. They get alot, but they give alot too!

In the beginning I mentioned that I am a Full-Time Employee with the Guard. A bunch of Technicians get AD orders for several months at a time, but are expected to be in the office doing our normal jobs. Since we are the subject matter experts in our areas of Tactics, Training, Current Ops, Scheduling, etc. we maintain the job knowledge continuity for the rest of the unit members. It's a good trade for AD Retirement points and maximization of pay if you understand the system...

Overall, that is what we have been able to maintain at our unit and many others do the same. However, I dare say not many if any other unit has been able to talor their AD orders for their people this well. Biased perhaps a bit, but I'd like to know if there is any other unit that has been able to employ their folks without the real deal deployments and for almost 4 solid years... Not a jab, I am really curious. It's always good to know others who are doing the same or better so you can learn techniques on how its being done. Politics carries alot of weight ya know. Futurewise, who knows! Mr. Senator is coming down tomorrow so maybe he can give us a clue down here at the "Wings of the Deep South!"

AG

Edited February 20, 2009 by AirGuardian

[Guest srvmcm]

Where do guard/reserve C-17's and C-15's usually go on the east coast? I know you head to the sandbox frequently, but do you get to stop in Europe and see some great places? Play golf? Ski?

[Guest AirGuardian]

Where do guard/reserve C-17's and C-15's usually go on the east coast? I know you head to the sandbox frequently, but do you get to stop in Europe and see some great places? Play golf? Ski?

Because of the missions we've secured, our unit passes through Andrews AFB for the most part while another one may pass through McGuire / Charleston / Dover for cargo pickup initially, then its off to Germany for either one (different bases for each). Staying the night in Germany with plenty of crew rest compared to others. Sandbox then back to Germany most of the time, plenty of crew rest again, then back through the same locations mentioned above - then homeward bound. Variations do happen depending on our users request of course. Not enough time to ski during the winter - but one crew managed this event somehow, but golf is doable during the summer. We've been doing this so much that most crew members have their own set routines heading downtown for some great resturants and whatnot... Every rare occasion, someone gets anxious and grabs a rental for another tour of the country or another one somewhere, but we've pretty much made it as far as Normandy, Paris and Amsterdam. But that's of course if we're delayed for more than a full day. Yup, many are burned out over this - but we know most or everyone has it worse so complaints are virtually nil. We try to schedule a great/different trip elsewhere for those who fly hard so I can regenerate them. Change is a good thing so they can bring back new stories of fun/bewilderment. Note: I wouldn't expect this elsewhere so be careful and find out what the unit is really flying. Heard of some great deals, but none seem to last that long.

Godspeed,

AG

Edited February 20, 2009 by AirGuardian

[scoobs]

Any C-17 pilots from March want to chime in?

[Guest AirGuardian]

Any C-17 pilots from March want to chime in?

I dare say the March guys are the closest to running our type of game as well. We initially had dedicated ourselves to 4 missions a week with a Bravo crew for 21 day periods on and off...

After our first year, March was coming on line and they stepped up and took the Bravo bird stuff in Germany. After awhile we gave up another mission and March stepped up again - they were quickest to figure out the deal. I consistently see March tails in Germany so I'm guessing they're still playing much of the same game we do, but to a lesser extent for that particular mission set. I'm sure they play in the Pacific waaay more than we ever have Weeest Coast and all which is nice. I myself have visited them several times and they graciously allowed us to borrow a tail to China. I lived in San Bernardino, CA for awhile and enjoyed their airshows well over 20 years ago as a former 141 guy we've had plenty of interaction back in the day. After moving to San Jose and graduating a Spartan I unfortunately was too far to sight see anymore. March is a great place to be centrally located with either the Reserve C-17 unit or the KC-135 Grizzly Guard unit there. Skiiing and Surf within a couple hours or so depending on direction. March is the only other Reserve Component who owns their own iron like us if I'm not mistaken.

But like the man said - Any March guys out there to clarify or just keeping a good secret!

Hydrate, traffic, but minor smog comparatively speaking... it ain't a bad place at all! To each their own of course.

AG

Edited February 21, 2009 by AirGuardian

[Guest srvmcm]

Anyone from McGuire of Dover have anything to say?

[Guest dudemize]

Anyone from McGuire of Dover have anything to say?

Dover Reserve C-5 guy here.

One of the good things about the C-5 are no deployments. Our job is to move stuff from the states over to the AOR. No point in deploying us if we just turn around and fly back to the states to pick stuff up. Plus, the mx infrastructure and ramp space requirements are too large.

Most of our missions are scheduled for 4-5 days. About half head straight overseas from Dover and the other half transit a stateside base to pick stuff up before heading over. We usually fly through Spain or Germany then head down to the AOR and back. Most missions usually break somewhere for a day or 2 (or 7), but I've been pretty luck as my last few trips have gone off as scheduled. For our missions they usually cut us 14 day orders (to account for breakage or itinerary changes) and if we get back before then we can just work out the days in the office. We currently have 1 crew (3 pilots) on full time MPA (active duty) to fill any trips not picked up by anyone else. Our unit is stingy with the full time orders but other units have a lot more folks on orders.

The lifestyle is good but the airplane itself is a real PITA. The maintenance issues wear on you after a while. Also, we see the same 5 or 6 places over and over again. If you want exciting flying and a lot of variety, the C-5 is not for you.

Edited March 15, 2009 by dudemize

[scoobs]

Do the C-5 guys ever go West?

[Guest dudemize]

Do the C-5 guys ever go West?

Very rare for Dover to get west trips. Maybe once per year we'll get one. Sometimes we'll get an around the world trip where we start going east and just keep going til we get home.

Travis goes west a lot, as do the standalone C-5 reserve/guard units. Dover, not so much.

[Guest srvmcm]

Thanks for the info about Dover C-5's. That's great stuff. How about reserve bumming out of Dover and owning a house? Raising a family?

[Guest dudemize]

Thanks for the info about Dover C-5's. That's great stuff. How about reserve bumming out of Dover and owning a house? Raising a family?

Bumming is no problem. If you you sign up for one mission, that is 14 mandays right there (you'll likely only be gone 4-7 days). Full time orders are a possibility, but helps if you're an IP. It helps the schedulers with manning the locals.

Dover is one of those places that is great to live, but not so great to visit. We've been here 8 years now and like it. The cost of living is low and no sales tax!

Having said that, we are thinking of moving, but only to move closer to family. It won't be an easy decision if we decide to leave.

Edited March 17, 2009 by dudemize

[Guest srvmcm]

Just a thought, but aren't you flying the C-5M and soon to be getting the new engines? Shouldn't that help A LOT with mx issues?

[Guest dudemize]

Just a thought, but aren't you flying the C-5M and soon to be getting the new engines? Shouldn't that help A LOT with mx issues?

We just received the first 2 M models with the new engines. The most noticeable difference is how quiet it is. The folks living near the base are going to LOVE the M model. By the way, there is no such thing as a C-5M without the new engines. The C-5M, by definition, is fully AMP'd (Avionics Modernization) and RERP'd (Reliability Enhancement and Re-engining Program).

While the M modifications will definitely help in the mx department, it is still a C-5 with miles and miles of hydraulic lines to leak, electrical wires to short out, and lots of fuel tanks to leak. The engines will make a huge difference, as they should be pretty much maintenance free. No more engine runs!

Anyway, last I heard it is going to take about 4 years for us to fully convert over to the M with the final tally being 18 (at Dover). As of right now, all the C-5Bs will be converted to M's. My guess is that they will probably convert a few select C-5As, with the remaining A models likely being retired. That should leave the final C-5 count around 60 (112 plus or minus now).

Edited March 18, 2009 by dudemize

[Guest srvmcm]

Thanks for the great info.

How long does it take to upgrade to AC and eventually IP in the reserve C-5 units?

Is it difficult to find time to go back to school for Master's, Certifications, etc?

Are ART/AGR positions available for young dudes?

What type of civilian jobs do you recommend on the outside? (I'm trying to avoid airlines like the plague)

Just out of curiousity, how is the squadron up at Dover? Push it up type people? Tight-knit group?

Thanks again for the info...

[Guest dudemize]

How long does it take to upgrade to AC and eventually IP in the reserve C-5 units?

If you fly a lot, you should upgrade in 3-4 yrs. Then another 2 or so to IP if you do a good job as AC. These numbers vary a lot.

Is it difficult to find time to go back to school for Master's, Certifications, etc?

Should be plenty of time for that. As a TR you can work as much or as little as you want.

Are ART/AGR positions available for young dudes?

We've hired several young guys/gals as baby ARTs in the last couple years. Baby meaning they are not IPs which is normally a requirement for ARTs. ART jobs were easy to get back when the airlines were doing well, much harder these days.

What type of civilian jobs do you recommend on the outside? (I'm trying to avoid airlines like the plague)

Airline jobs are nice due to their flexibility. I think we only have 2 or 3 pilots that work your typical 9-5 jobs. We have one that works for Customs and Border Patrol. The rest are bums or airline guys. Myself, I work for NetJets although I'm on mil leave at the moment. It works great with my reserve stuff.

Just out of curiousity, how is the squadron up at Dover? Push it up type people? Tight-knit group?

The people in my squadron are awesome. I enjoy flying with pretty much everyone. The problem with Dover, being an associate wing, is we are too closely affiliated with the active duty. We don't own the airplanes so we get pretty much the same crappy trips as the active duty. We get first dibs on the trips, but all the trips are the same so it doesn't help. We do get the occasional good deal AFRC trip. IMHO, it is a much better deal to be unit-equipped (stand alone unit).

Thanks again for the info...

No problem!

[Guest srvmcm]

That's great stuff. I hear you on being standalone. From what I hear from some of my bros at heavy units not at AD bases, they don't get enough opportunity to fly and they end up guard/reserve bumming and can't make a living because their unit is "overstaffed." Right now, I'd love to just be a part of a great squadron, flying as much as possible, supporting my family, buying a house, going to school, and flying a great jet (all mx aside). That's living the dream.

Those baby ART jobs... good deal or better being a TR? Possible to make more money as an ART?

Seems like some pros to an AD base though... Commissary, Class 6, etc. No?

Again, thanks. Lots to consider here and trying to piece it all together.

[Guest dudemize]

That's great stuff. I hear you on being standalone. From what I hear from some of my bros at heavy units not at AD bases, they don't get enough opportunity to fly and they end up guard/reserve bumming and can't make a living because their unit is "overstaffed." Right now, I'd love to just be a part of a great squadron, flying as much as possible, supporting my family, buying a house, going to school, and flying a great jet (all mx aside). That's living the dream.

Those baby ART jobs... good deal or better being a TR? Possible to make more money as an ART?

Seems like some pros to an AD base though... Commissary, Class 6, etc. No?

Again, thanks. Lots to consider here and trying to piece it all together.

If you think you might want a career as an ART, then the baby ART job is a no brainer. If you want to go for the airlines, you'll probably be able to fly more as a TR (although the baby ARTs fly plenty). It's hard to say about the pay. If you're on full time orders, then yes you will make more than the ARTs. As a TR, it just depends on how much you want to work.

There are some pros to being an active duty base, for sure. The benefits you mentioned are nice. Also, there is definitely no shortage of flying. If my unit doesn't have a trip, then I can just jump on an active duty trip. I've only done this once because we usually have plenty of trips, and I just prefer flying with my squadron.

Edited March 21, 2009 by dudemize

[Guest AirGuardian]

Coming from an Iron Owned ANG unit and I'm almost sure the Reserves would be the same. Maybe different depending on the airframe...?

There is nothing like flying "your" jets, that are fixed by "your" maintainers and flying with "your" friends on trips either bad or great trips. It's all good with the right company, but the good trips get even better....

Just imagine flying with your best buds period and having only one father figure if you will, not several jacking your schedule around at a whim. Unless you're on orders of course, then we all fall victim to the TACC debacle...

Cheers,

AG