Flight Evaluation Board (FEB)

[Hacker]

On 8/13/2016 at 5:42 PM, falconeer said:

Is anyone on here familiar with FEB waivers? Please ident.  

I ran the FEB program for IFF washouts at Moody back 10 years ago, so I have handled a few waivers in my time.

@ViperStud has it correct -- the "waiver" is something that the WG/CC (technically, the Convening Authority for the FEB) offers the pilot.  The pilot is offered to waive his right to have a board hear his FEB in exchange for having his fate decided by the local WG/CC.  That outcome -- at least in AETC world for guys who are all ready winged and fragged to fly fighters -- usually involves reassignment to an ACC heavy of some sort.

In other situations, as @xaarman pointed out, guys with ratings previous to their current training (e.g. Navs going to SUPT) can be offered the FEB waiver, and the waiver will result in them returning to their previous rating.

[Igloowhite]

Although enlisted I was a victim of an FEB at my 9 year mark. Took me 10 years to renter Flying AFSC after it was overturned by Air Force Board for Correction of Military Records. Though I never received back Flight Pay, I was able to resume flying duties for 15 more years in both active and ANG status! It can be done!

[Muscle2002]

The terms of the waiver are generally acceptance of an ACC crew aircraft, basically anything but single seat fighters. Not sure how the B-15 fits into the mix.

 

 

It (Strike Eagle) doesn't fit in the mix. At least during my time in the FTU, we never had other fighter airframe washouts. I'm fairly confident ACC deems washing out of a fighter as disqualifying for any other fighter, even the two seat variant.

[Hacker]

FEB waivers for IFF and fighter FTU washouts only lead to ACC multi pilot aircraft; generally RC-135s, E-3s , EC-135s, or (less often) B-1s or B-52s.

[osulax05]

The standard mantra applies here, timing is everything. I left the viper (GLOC->FEB waiver) in 2010 and was offered nearly every AMC type aircraft to choose from; not an ISR platform to speak of. I'm now a C-130 patch.  

Whatever your circumstances, keep your head up and bloom where you are planted.

[ViperStud]

12 hours ago, Muscle2002 said:

 

 

It (Strike Eagle) doesn't fit in the mix. At least during my time in the FTU, we never had other fighter airframe washouts. I'm fairly confident ACC deems washing out of a fighter as disqualifying for any other fighter, even the two seat variant.

That was a joke.  In my world, friendly ribbing against the other fighter bros still exists. 

[Muscle2002]

That was a joke.  In my world, friendly ribbing against the other fighter bros still exists. 

My humor detector was Code 3...cheers.

[kaputt]

Bringing this topic back up looking for answers in regard to FEB Waivers.

I'm going to leave specifics of airframe, etc... out, however if knowing those specifics will help you answer my questions feel free to shoot me a PM.

The short story however is, I am facing an FEB from a B Course for failing to meet training standards. But it looks like I am going to be offered the option to take an FEB Waiver. I saw that FEB Waivers were mentioned earlier in the thread, but what I specifically want to know is, do you have any sort of control over what air frame you may follow on to if you take the FEB Waiver? The reason I ask is apparently the last dude who went through an FEB where I am ended up going to RPAs. Now apparently he did not get offered a waiver and actually went to the board, and I also don't know what the official recommendation from the board was, but it's still a bit of a worrying result.

I saw an earlier post in here mentioned "the terms of the waiver are generally acceptance of an ACC heavy." But I was curious if this was something written into the wavier, or something discussed afterwards and preferences are then given to AFPC? Or is it possible that you are purely up to the whims of AFPC?

Edit: I guess I should also mention I am a UPT to B Course guy, so the waiver would result in a reassignment, and not a return to a previous air frame or AFSC.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

Edited January 12, 2017 by kaputt

[Spartacus]

1 hour ago, kaputt said:

Bringing this topic back up looking for answers in regard to FEB Waivers.

I'm going to leave specifics of airframe, etc... out, however if knowing those specifics will help you answer my questions feel free to shoot me a PM.

The short story however is, I am facing an FEB from a B Course for failing to meet training standards. But it looks like I am going to be offered the option to take an FEB Waiver. I saw that FEB Waivers were mentioned earlier in the thread, but what I specifically want to know is, do you have any sort of control over what air frame you may follow on to if you take the FEB Waiver? The reason I ask is apparently the last dude who went through an FEB where I am ended up going to RPAs. Now apparently he did not get offered a waiver and actually went to the board, and I also don't know what the official recommendation from the board was, but it's still a bit of a worrying result.

I saw an earlier post in here mentioned "the terms of the waiver are generally acceptance of an ACC heavy." But I was curious if this was something written into the wavier, or something discussed afterwards and preferences are then given to AFPC? Or is it possible that you are purely up to the whims of AFPC?

Edit: I guess I should also mention I am a UPT to B Course guy, so the waiver would result in a reassignment, and not a return to a previous air frame or AFSC.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

Dude, take the waiver. You washed out. It happens. Now isn't the time to be asking if you can put in a dream sheet. You failed to meet training standards and therefore have limited yourself. Here's how I see it:

Option 1: You don't take the waiver and risk losing your wings or going to RPAs.

Option 2: You take the waiver and probably go to AWACs. 

Is it really that hard of a decision? 

[LookieRookie]

Look in the 11-402

[Dapper Dan Man]

Bringing this topic back up looking for answers in regard to FEB Waivers.

I'm going to leave specifics of airframe, etc... out, however if knowing those specifics will help you answer my questions feel free to shoot me a PM.

The short story however is, I am facing an FEB from a B Course for failing to meet training standards. But it looks like I am going to be offered the option to take an FEB Waiver. I saw that FEB Waivers were mentioned earlier in the thread, but what I specifically want to know is, do you have any sort of control over what air frame you may follow on to if you take the FEB Waiver? The reason I ask is apparently the last dude who went through an FEB where I am ended up going to RPAs. Now apparently he did not get offered a waiver and actually went to the board, and I also don't know what the official recommendation from the board was, but it's still a bit of a worrying result.

I saw an earlier post in here mentioned "the terms of the waiver are generally acceptance of an ACC heavy." But I was curious if this was something written into the wavier, or something discussed afterwards and preferences are then given to AFPC? Or is it possible that you are purely up to the whims of AFPC?

Edit: I guess I should also mention I am a UPT to B Course guy, so the waiver would result in a reassignment, and not a return to a previous air frame or AFSC.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

Looks like Hacker answered this a few months back. Good luck.

[kaputt]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

Dude, take the waiver. You washed out. It happens. Now isn't the time to be asking if you can put in a dream sheet. You failed to meet training standards and therefore have limited yourself. Here's how I see it:

Option 1: You don't take the waiver and risk losing your wings or going to RPAs.

Option 2: You take the waiver and probably go to AWACs. 

Is it really that hard of a decision? 

Thanks for the response. Genuinely appreciate the bluntness. I've got a million things running through my nugget, so apologies for some unfiltered thoughts getting blurted out onto the screen. I do fully accept the responsibility and results of the situation.

Thanks for the other responses as well. Probably should have read the whole thread in a little more detail.

[matmacwc]

And don't think F-15E is a possibility b/c its a crew airplane, thats just sad.

[Hacker]

17 hours ago, kaputt said:

do you have any sort of control over what air frame you may follow on to if you take the FEB Waiver?

As with everything, "it depends".

It depends on a lot of things that are entirely out of your control.

If your Convening Authority is given a list of choices to offer, the CA may pass that option down to you.  The CA also might not...and you would never know, since you aren't part of the communication process for the FEB or the Waiver.  Some CAs may even make you accept the Waiver first before even telling you what might be in the hopper for a follow-on for you.  Some might tell you beforehand what airframe they're going to recommend for you.

In my opinion, there is rarely anything to be gained by not taking the waiver and going to a full-on FEB.  Occasionally, when gradebooks were poorly documented and maintained, a good attorney could get a student reinstated....but more often than not guys end up at the same place they would have if they'd just accepted the waiver, months later down the road and perhaps $ thousands poorer in attorney fees.

[Guest]

Good afternoon, FEB went bad, I had a really bad month and Q3d then didn't do well during requalification. Any advice to fight this and or gain a flying waiver to still save my wings?
 
Does the "Bud Day" legend still exist out there to ask advice?

What qual and MWS?

[MKAY]

I was just fully signed off from prog tour, but had a life event and pulled the bonehead Q3, I have not yet even had my first checkride with the squadron. I swear there should have been some lineant actions, failure to progress I'm sure was a highlight of why the FEB was convened. They gave me 3 options IRR, selfeliminate, or FEB. The form 8 that was sent up was inaccurate, proven inaccurate by the FEB via eye witness and further documents.  Non-pilot to keep things simple

[the g-man]

2 hours ago, GypsyGhost said:

I was just fully signed off from prog tour, but had a life event and pulled the bonehead Q3, I have not yet even had my first checkride with the squadron. I swear there should have been some lineant actions, failure to progress I'm sure was a highlight of why the FEB was convened. They gave me 3 options IRR, selfeliminate, or FEB. The form 8 that was sent up was inaccurate, proven inaccurate by the FEB via eye witness and further documents.  Non-pilot to keep things simple

You didn't really answer any of the two questions posed to you.

 

Advice, should have taken the IRR option and started a career in politics.

[LookieRookie]

Are you still in IQT?

[Buddy Spike]

3 hours ago, GypsyGhost said:

Good afternoon, FEB went bad, I had a really bad month and Q3d then didn't do well during requalification. Any advice to fight this and or gain a flying waiver to still save my wings?

 

Does the "Bud Day" legend still exist out there to ask advice?

Col Bud Day died four years ago.

[YoungnDumb]

Gypsy if you could lay everything out in a more easy to follow fashion I think everyone could help you a lot more.  While I have no experience with FEB's the few pilots I have seen go have kept their wings.  They all went for various reasons (not up to standards, flight discipline (kept busting TR's during training), G-Loc, SA) but they all have kept their wings and are still out there doing great things, so keep your chin up.

[HU&W]

18 hours ago, GypsyGhost said:

The form 8 that was sent up was inaccurate, proven inaccurate by the FEB via eye witness and further documents.

 

2 hours ago, GypsyGhost said:

no eye witnessese were there to support my posture.

Inconsistent facts don't help us help you.  

That said, have you read AFI 11-402, chapter 4?  If not, read it.  It will answer most of the questions I think you're asking.

[Hacker]

Honestly, the time to get civilian legal help was before the FEB, not after.  There's very little you can do now if the FEB has already taken place, and you're now just waiting for the 4-star to sign off on the Board's recommendation.

There are a few options going forward...but WARNING: none of them are likely going to change the outcome of you being grounded.  You essentially have to wait for your FEB to be ruled on by the 4-star, and then try and overturn the results.

Option 1: Ask for an appeal: If there is evidence or testimony that wasn't presented to the FEB that should have been considered, you can ask the 4-star to overturn his/her ruling.  There is not an official process to appeal an FEB inside USAF channels, but there's nothing preventing you from trying if you believe you have a legitimate argument (and not just a hail-mary).

Option 2: DoD IG Complaint: If there was some sort of improper action taken by AF leadership in the FEB process (for example, Unlawful Command Influence), you can report it to the DoD IG, who can investigate if they see some illegal actions.

Option 3: Board of Correction of Military Records: The BCMR has a wide variety of things they can do if you file with them to correct a mistake or injustice to your records.  If you believe a documented injustice has occurred, then the BCMR can do everything including removing the FEB from your records and reinstating you to the position you were removed from.  This is a long, slow process and not likely to change anything.  Most BCMR appeals I've seen change nothing, but there are very rare wins here at the "USAF Supreme Court".

All of these options will cost you considerable money for a civilian attorney to work on, and have very minimal chance of changing anything.

[Guest]

Well from my understanding, I am awaiting the review from AFRC. If that decision is not for me to keep my wings, then I'm looking at the next course of action. The FEB was just last month, went with a good ADC who gave solid points to reflect upon, but I feel there was too much prejudicial material that clouded the black and white reasons why they felt an FEB was the only other avenue. They didn't convene , I elected to as that was the only logical decision. IRR I loose a year pay and points, and transferring would have been extremely difficult. Atkeast the good facts about the situation were brought to light. They spoke of self elimination which didn't make sense as I just got signed off on everything.

Am I the only one who doesn't understand half of what this guy is saying?

[Homestar]

5 hours ago, GypsyGhost said:

but then had a mister....

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said:

Am I the only one who doesn't understand half of what this guy is saying?

Yes it's hard to follow. The gist I get is he's a reservist who just finished becoming a load, boom, or FE.

He Q3'd at his squadron and then Q3'd again during requal.

His leadership gave him three options:

1. Go to the IRR and it will be swept under the rug. He didn't want to do this because he would lose out on IDT/AT pay until a unit took a gamble on him and gained him from the IRR. This could never happen because he has multiple Q3s. He also would lose out on a good year points wise for retirement.

2. He could voluntarily give up his wings and permanently DQ himself iaw 11-402.

3. FEB

 

He elected #3 and it appears that the FEB went poorly for him and now Gen Miller or Gen Scobee has to approve the FEB recommendation (no wings probably).

 

He's saying that the FEB process was biased and that they don't have eyewitness testimony to his Q3s which doesn't make sense to me. It seems to be the old, leadership is out to get me argument.