Flight Evaluation Board (FEB)

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, mcbush said:

Nope. Based on the briefing I got, it sounds like it was a literal shitshow.

They brief this incident in our annual CRM refresher class, the look on every face of the 15 or so pilots from new copilots to EPs was nothiing short of disbelief. Ive read a lot of safety reports where crews made a bad decisions in a time critical situation and I will withhold criticism because I could easily find myself in a similar situation anytime I step. However this crew was in literally no hurry and neglected pilot 101 shit that every qualified crewmember knows. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Fuzz

[Homestar]

This thread reminds me of the KC-135 pilot that shut down all four engines on 5 mile final.... and apparently survived his FEB. 

[bfargin]

I'm surprised they survived the flight.  A 5 mile no engine glide in a tanker is an impressive feat.

26 minutes ago, Homestar said:

This thread reminds me of the KC-135 pilot that shut down all four engines on 5 mile final.... and apparently survived his FEB. 

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, bfargin said:

I'm surprised they survived the flight.  A 5 mile no engine glide in a tanker is an impressive feat.

All engines relit. Eventually. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Homestar

[Azimuth]

2 hours ago, Homestar said:

This thread reminds me of the KC-135 pilot that shut down all four engines on 5 mile final.... and apparently survived his FEB. 

That was on accident cause instead of going to idle, he went to cutoff.  And after talking to two people that were on that flight he was later FEB'd for other issues.

[Azimuth]

2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

They brief this incident in our annual CRM refresher class, the look on every face of the 15 or so pilots from new copilots to EPs was nothiing short of disbelief. Ive read a lot of safety reports where crews made a bad decisions in a time critical situation and I will withhold criticism because I could easily find myself in a similar situation anytime I step. However this crew was in literally no hurry and neglected pilot 101 shit that every qualified crewmember knows. 

After talking to one of the guys at A3V, who recommended to the AMC/CC to take his wings, no one could even think of a single way they would've done what the AC instructed, and later did, on that flight after the issue.

[Day Man]

On 8/8/2017 at 10:11 AM, NKAWTG said:

There is a safety report on it if you do some digging.  Worst pilot judgement I've read about in a crew aircraft.  People closer to the story can verify, but I believe the copilot and boom operator were really new, like less than a year in the aircraft new. 

[Azimuth]

Just now, Day Man said:

Honestly this is worse than what you're referring too.  They didn't even have weather or any other external factor, this was just poor judgment.  

[Day Man]

I believe you, but will refrain from passing judgment...just glad everyone is ok.

[Herk Driver]

4 hours ago, Azimuth said:

It was.  The Boom and Copilot are back flying.  The AC also has an insane story about being accidentally RIF'd from Dyess back in 2010.

Ahhh.  I didn't know he went to tankers.

[Azimuth]

2 hours ago, Herk Driver said:

Ahhh.  I didn't know he went to tankers.

After Cheyenne shutdown.

[BashiChuni]

every time you post i get more and more confused

[SurelySerious]

22 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

every time you post i get more and more confused

2

[tac airlifter]

10 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

every time you post i get more and more confused

Yea it's weird, I understand each individual word he types, but arranged in the order they are leaves me baffled.  I feel like an archeologist looking at hieroglyphics: "ok I've got snake, a bird and river.  I know those.  But what does it mean all together?"  And then I look at the post he's replying to and all my theories explode.

[Day Man]

@GypsyGhost...is English your first language? serious question.

[otsap]

You also keep using the word "hearsay" as if it means "false"; the two are not the same.  Hearsay is a rule of evidence applicable to legal proceedings, not FEBs, and it actually doesn't imply falsehood/lies at all.

[MKAY]

On 8/18/2017 at 9:54 AM, Day Man said:

@GypsyGhost...is English your first language? serious question.

Yes but explaining bullcrap they are trying to pull is not easy.

[Truman08]

9 minutes ago, GypsyGhost said:

This is what took place, I Q3d, yes I made a mistake I owned it and went through a training flight / requal and was still weak, but thought I had another flight. On my form 8 it gives a statement that is completely untrue. I went with the FEB to prove said statement was untrue, as well as bring to light a huge issue that I was not questioned about what happened until they were ready to pass judgment for me to go IRR or self eliminate.  There was damage to the plane that I had nothing to do with, my secondary may have had some responsibility, maybe not, they call it a freak accident yet his hand was on the static line retriever button and I was waiting to bring in said static lines, 10 feet away. All I know is he wasn't questioned, AC did not debrief with me, did not ask me personally what happened, not during the tdy not 3 weeks after, just didnt happen and that's where I find grey areas to begin with.  What should've been on my form 8 and what was actually submitted was completely something else. Sworn statements from witnesses who were brought in on the opposing side gave their statement and anyone reading it would be in shock that the center of this event of a FEB that I chose because I needed the form 8 retracted /removed because it is false. I have hired an attourney to get the Form 8 removed and filing an IG complaint against this FEB to try and just look at the facts presented because reading through the AFI, it should be unbiased board members, two folks were within my direct section? It seemed funny. 

Holy run-on sentences

[matmacwc]

A CC can Q3 you for anything they want and you are done.  I'd fight as well, but you probably aren't winning this one.

[lloyd christmas]

Gypsy,

Fellow load here.  Curious exactly what happened on the flight in question.  Sounds like you were tailgating troopers and had an issue.  Curious what aircraft.  If you are a Herk guy, was it an H or J?  How did the aircraft get damaged during retrieval of static lines or while dropping the dudes?  What statement on the Form 8 was false?  Wondering if there is something we can learn from the flight.  PM if you need to.

[USMCAirWinger]

Gypsy,

Here is some non-legal advise.  

There is nothing anyone can do on this forum to help your legal issue.  Since you are ratining legal counsel, I recommend you stop posting about your case here or in social media.  More importantly, follow the legal advise received by your retained counsel. 

Airwinger.  

[dream big]

3 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

Gypsy,

Fellow load here.  Curious exactly what happened on the flight in question.  Sounds like you were tailgating troopers and had an issue.  Curious what aircraft.  If you are a Herk guy, was it an H or J?  How did the aircraft get damaged during retrieval of static lines or while dropping the dudes?  What statement on the Form 8 was false?  Wondering if there is something we can learn from the flight.  PM if you need to.

As a 130J guy myself I am also curious.  Feel free to Pm.

[Azimuth]

18 hours ago, GypsyGhost said:

This is what took place, I Q3d, yes I made a mistake I owned it and went through a training flight / requal and was still weak, but thought I had another flight. On my form 8 it gives a statement that is completely untrue. I went with the FEB to prove said statement was untrue, as well as bring to light a huge issue that I was not questioned about what happened until they were ready to pass judgment for me to go IRR or self eliminate.  There was damage to the plane that I had nothing to do with, my secondary may have had some responsibility, maybe not, they call it a freak accident yet his hand was on the static line retriever button and I was waiting to bring in said static lines, 10 feet away. All I know is he wasn't questioned, AC did not debrief with me, did not ask me personally what happened, not during the tdy not 3 weeks after, just didnt happen and that's where I find grey areas to begin with.  What should've been on my form 8 and what was actually submitted was completely something else. Sworn statements from witnesses who were brought in on the opposing side gave their statement and anyone reading it would be in shock that the center of this event of a FEB that I chose because I needed the form 8 retracted /removed because it is false. I have hired an attourney to get the Form 8 removed and filing an IG complaint against this FEB to try and just look at the facts presented because reading through the AFI, it should be unbiased board members, two folks were within my direct section? It seemed funny. 

You can fight a Form 8 all you want, however read 11-202V2 where it says it's the examiner's judgement.   It's not going to get removed.  Buddy of mine taught in the -135 FTU with me (Boom) and was refueling the C-17 FTU Sq/CC years ago when he crushed the ice shield, then my buddy called a breakaway.  My Sq/CC at the time said he's Q-3'ing my buddy, however if the safety report comes back and exonerates him, he'd remove the Form 8 from his FEF.  The safety report came back stating that the reason for the crushed ice shield was 100% the C-17 FTU Sq/CC's fault, which he openly admitted to.  However when my Sq/CC went to take it out of my buddy's FEF the OG/CC, who's a piece of shit, told my Sq/CC if he removed the Form 8 from his FEF, he would put one in his FEF with the OG's signature on it.  So my buddy has a Q-3 for something that a safety report said he wasn't the cause of.

In the end after being an evaluator for 10-years I can tell you that unless you caused a Class A mishap, or you almost killed people, it's going to take more than one Form 8 to send you to an FEB.  If people got FEB'd based on fucking up aircraft flying there wouldn't be one Boom Operator in the USAF.

[icohftb]

So the sq/cc rushed to judgment and was willing to screw your buddy rather than hurt his own career. 

Sounds about right for the AF.

Edited August 21, 2017 by icohftb

[brickhistory]

5 hours ago, Azimuth said:

 However when my Sq/CC went to take it out of my buddy's FEF the OG/CC, who's a piece of shit, told my Sq/CC if he removed the Form 8 from his FEF, he would put one in his FEF with the OG's signature on it.  So my buddy has a Q-3 for something that a safety report said he wasn't the cause of.

 

And the Sq/CC said, "Sir, you will have to do that because I am removing mine."

Did he?

And Big Blue wonders why people are bailing...