Flight Evaluation Board (FEB)

[pawnman]

41 minutes ago, MKAY said:

IG..

And then?

[MKAY]

11 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Well, a fighter pilot song isn't really the same.

 

3 hours ago, FUSEPLUG said:

 

I know, situation smells like REALLY OLD CANNED TUNA!!

[Hacker]

I must be getting old and senile because I'm totally fucking lost.

[SurelySerious]

17 minutes ago, Hacker said:

I must be getting old and senile because I'm totally fucking lost.

You're not lost, that dude hasn't put together a coherent sentence yet.

[FourFans]

He's gunning for Bendy's drunken poster status.

[Fuzz]

What is happening? I feel like there are deleted posts I missed.

[HarleyQuinn]

21 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

He's gunning for Bendy's drunken poster status.

Plot twist, but Bendy isn't normally drunk. That's just his diva side coming out of the shadows.

Edited August 1, 2018 by HarleyQuinn

[Hacker]

On 7/30/2018 at 4:15 PM, MKAY said:

FIRST FEB at Dobbins because of drama. My ex tried to commit suicide via gun after I broke it off... yeah. They went deployed, never evaluated ect, huge sweep under the rug. ENJOY!

Form 8 :(accused of  unhooking myself aft 677- never took place* and tried to unhook another crewmember with doors open* again never took place. 3 loads hooked to 1 location.

As we told you last year at this time, there are people on baseops that have experience with FEBs (from many different angles, hehe), so if you have an actual question about what you're going through with yours, fire away.

Otherwise, we're not really sure what the purpose of this post, and the posts that followed, is.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Hacker

[Bender]

He's gunning for Bendy's drunken poster status.

 

Like many other things in life, it's about consistent performance at a very high level. Just peaking isn't going to win you any titles here or anywhere else.

 

Amateurs, most of them. Looks like we have spotted another one streaking around...nothing to see here.

 

In reference to the subject post though: What? You unhooked another load master, tossed the other out the back, and then hooked the entire crew to the same station? Q2 at best I'd say...shit.

 

~Bendy

 

[Defnotapilot]

Situation: at a formal training unit for an aircraft that doesn’t fly quite like anything else (not fighter or bomber), washed out after hooking initial check ride x3.  Waiver for FEB has been denied.  Attempting to be retained as a pilot and reassigned to something simple crewed aircraft like a C-17.   Reason for waiver: failure to meet standards, not safety of flight or limiting aviation service etc.

 

I know I can succeed in something like the 17. I made it through UPT and started IFF but the multitasking got the better of me.  Reassigned to where I ended up here and the course here  was more difficult that IFF. It was even worse when it came to multitasking. 

Going to an FEB soon. Thoughts? Advice?

[MooseClub]

On 11/26/2018 at 3:02 PM, Defnotapilot said:

Situation: at a formal training unit for an aircraft that doesn’t fly quite like anything else (not fighter or bomber), washed out after hooking initial check ride x3.  Waiver for FEB has been denied.  Attempting to be retained as a pilot and reassigned to something simple crewed aircraft like a C-17.   Reason for waiver: failure to meet standards, not safety of flight or limiting aviation service etc.

 

I know I can succeed in something like the 17. I made it through UPT and started IFF but the multitasking got the better of me.  Reassigned to where I ended up here and the course here  was more difficult that IFF. It was even worse when it came to multitasking. 

Going to an FEB soon. Thoughts? Advice?

What is your local leadership recommending to the FEB?  

From what I’ve seen the leadership at your current FTU can have a big influence on the direction your FEB takes. There’s a significant difference in what students can washout for. It can be “hey this flying thing just isn’t for you” or it can be “hey this is a good dude, this particular msn just isn’t for him”.  That’s two very different messages. 

My 2 cents...getting your leadership to advocate for you is your best shot at another airframe. 

[Bender]

Situation: at a formal training unit for an aircraft that doesn’t fly quite like anything else (not fighter or bomber), washed out after hooking initial check ride x3.  Waiver for FEB has been denied.  Attempting to be retained as a pilot and reassigned to something simple crewed aircraft like a C-17.   Reason for waiver: failure to meet standards, not safety of flight or limiting aviation service etc.
 
I know I can succeed in something like the 17. I made it through UPT and started IFF but the multitasking got the better of me.  Reassigned to where I ended up here and the course here  was more difficult that IFF. It was even worse when it came to multitasking. 
Going to an FEB soon. Thoughts? Advice?

PM Hacker; he found himself a doozey of an FEB...far more complicated than the seemingly straight forward one you describe. One which he navigated about as successfully as one could hope for. He would be a good source of info if he has time.

It's funny how much you choose to learn about stuff like that when it happens to you. You're looking for mentorship here, not message board advice.

~Bendy

[ThreeHoler]

Situation: at a formal training unit for an aircraft that doesn’t fly quite like anything else (not fighter or bomber), washed out after hooking initial check ride x3.  Waiver for FEB has been denied.  Attempting to be retained as a pilot and reassigned to something simple crewed aircraft like a C-17.   Reason for waiver: failure to meet standards, not safety of flight or limiting aviation service etc.
 
I know I can succeed in something like the 17. I made it through UPT and started IFF but the multitasking got the better of me.  Reassigned to where I ended up here and the course here  was more difficult that IFF. It was even worse when it came to multitasking. 
Going to an FEB soon. Thoughts? Advice?

So you failed out of IFF...

And you failed out of your new airframe...

Multitasking is your problem...

...then it sounds like your problem is you probably shouldn’t have graduated UPT.

[nunya]

On 11/26/2018 at 5:02 PM, Defnotapilot said:

an aircraft that doesn’t fly quite like anything else

 

On 11/26/2018 at 5:02 PM, Defnotapilot said:

I can succeed in something like the 17

Have you seen how those dudes land that thing?  Talk about doesn't fly like anything else!  What the hell kind of engineer thought it'd be a good idea to flare with power?!

[LookieRookie]

47 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

So you failed out of IFF...

And you failed out of your new airframe...

Multitasking is your problem...

...then it sounds like your problem is you probably shouldn’t have graduated UPT.

 

This may be a true statement. I'm sure the FEB will review his undergraduate gradebooks as well. 

 

Nothing to add broski but be prepared to lose your wings, that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight.

Edit: are you in afsoc?

Edited December 5, 2018 by LookieRookie

[JeremiahWeed]

46 minutes ago, nunya said:

 

Have you seen how those dudes land that thing?  Talk about doesn't fly like anything else!  What the hell kind of engineer thought it'd be a good idea to flare with power?!

Okay - I give up... which aircraft are we talking about?

[kaputt]

Hey, sorry to hear about facing an FEB. It truly is a sucky experience.

I went through one in 2017 and it was a similar situation to you, I washed from a FTU. Here are a couple pieces of advice I would give you:

1) Work your network to get people to vouch for you. See what your current leadership and instructors are likely to recommend. Reach out to UPT IP's and see if any will write you letters of support or testify for you. I ended up having two of my UPT IPs come voluntarily TDY and testify in front of the board and vouch for the fact that I was a competent and capable pilot.

2) Be wary of the legal advice your ADC gives you. Ultimately this is your aviation career at stake. In my case the ADC recommended I NOT fight to get reinstated into my FTU course, as he thought it may burn bridges and piss people off in the training squadron (the FTU planned to recommend my removal from the course but reassignment to a new airframe). I went with his recommendation, but ultimately in the end I think that was a mistake (see conclusion below).

3) Keep a record of everything that occurred leading up to and during your FEB. You never know what things you might catch or discover that could help your case now or in the future.

4) Keep your head up! Show up every day with a smile on your face and do whatever job they stash you in with the best attitude you can. Be a bro. Even if this ultimately doesn't help your case in the end, it will help your personal sanity. Also own the fact that you are facing an FEB. Don't be the guy that makes excuses about why you're in this position. Own the mistake and show everyone that you know you can be better.

Conclusion: Now here is the part you probably won't want to hear. You can do everything right in the process and still end up with a bad result. The FEB is set up so that no matter what is recommended by the FEB or Convening Authority, the MAJCOM Commander has the final say. In my case I had the FTU leadership and instructors, my UPT instructors, and the Convening Authority all recommend my reassignment to another airframe/mission. And while I did struggle in my FTU, I had no history of failures in UPT. However the MAJCOM commander still reversed their recommendation and removed me from flying status. As mentioned above, if there is one thing I would have done different (other than change my study habits sooner and not even face an FEB), it would have been fight to get put back into my FTU. And as I mentioned above, I think saying that you just want to go to another airframe has to the potential to cause a bad perception.  From the Convening Authority on to MAJCOM, your case will only be seen on paper, and whether right or wrong, it could be perceived that just wanting to move on somewhere else demonstrates a lack of commitment or seeking an easier path. Who knows if that really would have changed the result, but it could have helped for sure.

Sorry for the long post, but I know I would have liked to have read something like this back when I was in your shoes. If you have any other questions feel free to PM me. I have basically memorized the 11-402.

Oh one more thing. If you are truly passionate about aviation and can afford it, keep flying on your own. It could help your case. I've since been reassigned to a new career field, but I'm working on my CFI on my own, hoping at least I can get into civilian aviation, or maybe someday find myself back in an Air Force cockpit.

Good luck!

Edited December 5, 2018 by kaputt
Added a sentence or two

[nunya]

1 minute ago, JeremiahWeed said:

Okay - I give up... which aircraft are we talking about?

I was talking about the C-17 not landing like an airplane.  I dunno what Defnotapilot is talking about.  

[di1630]

I was talking about the C-17 not landing like an airplane.  I dunno what Defnotapilot is talking about.  

I’m gonna guess it’s a U-2 just because I’m not sure what else it could be that lands tough.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, nunya said:

I was talking about the C-17 not landing like an airplane. 

I’ve heard it’s ass backwards.

[LookieRookie]

22 minutes ago, di1630 said:

I’m gonna guess it’s a U-2 just because I’m not sure what else it could be that lands tough.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

U-2s wouldn't gain a newly winged pilot that just washed out of IFF. Odds are he was in E-3/E-8/RC-135 or a U-28

Edited December 5, 2018 by LookieRookie

[Defnotapilot]

I would love tell you what platform or MAJCOM, however, I would like to keep this anonymous. I am seeking a general feeling/advice/mentorship on things, not necessarily legal advice. 

I did well in T-6s and 38s, with the exception of formation in the 38.  I have spoke with UPT peers who were on my skill level (middle third of the class) and they are having little to no problems in their heavy airframes.  

All said, I hate the thought that someone would think I am trying to quit and fly something easy, but at some point...if you suck at the hard stuff..you suck, so move on to something that’s on your skill level. That was my thought process at the beginning of this. I wasn’t progressing to a good level, even after a hundred hours between sims and flight time. 

[herkbier]

3 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

U-2s wouldn't gain a newly winged pilot that just washed out of IFF. Odds are he was in E-3/E-8/RC-135 or a U-28

I’m not an 11R.. but I can’t imagine the multitasking in a E-3/8 or RC is that difficult for the front end.. I’m gonna guess U-28 since he’s looking to move to a crewed aircraft. 

[Danger41]

Just a data point for guys that may be looking to go U-28’s after departure from an FTU (usually fighter guys). If you were having problems multi-tasking/decision making/dealing with complex situations, don’t go to the U-28. It’s a very complicated mission and requires you to be able to think on your feet. Not saying other aircraft don’t require that, but the U-28 is pretty high up there on that scale. 

[Hacker]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:02 PM, Defnotapilot said:

Going to an FEB soon. Thoughts? Advice?

Your #1 action right now should be to find and hire a reputable civilian attorney to represent you at the FEB.  As said above, don't rely on your ADC.  Yes, it sucks to spend a big chunk of money on a civilian attorney, but if you intend to continue forward in a military flying career the cost is pretty small compared to what you could lose. 

I have personally seen ADCs be positively eaten alive in the courtroom due to their inexperience dealing with the intricacies of aviation service.  On the other hand, I have also personally seen civilian attorneys run circles around SJAs in the courtroom and get wins for their clients.

Remember, the FEB process is designed to protect and serve the AF, not you.  Very rarely will "justice" be served from the perspective of the respondent (e.g. you).