Guest uscmas412 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) I'm graduating NAV school in May, aircraft drop is tomorrow. I have two choices: 1)JSTARS to Robins 2)Slick to Peterson. I'm from SC so I'd like to be close to home, but I *think* I'd like the C-130 mission slightly more. JSTARS rarely drop at NAV school, so I really have never considered them. Are there career opportunities in the JSTARS world? If you're on a JSTARS, do you like the mission? Lastly, I'm married with one child. My wife's choice is the JSTARS since she would be close to home when I deploy. Advice? Help! Edited March 13, 2009 by M2 It's JSTARS, sunshine....
Fontus Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I'm graduating NAV school in May, aircraft drop is tomorrow. I have two choices: 1)JSTAR to Robins 2)Slick to Peterson. I'm from SC so I'd like to be close to home, but I *think* I'd like the C-130 mission slightly more. JSTARs rarely drop at NAV school, so I really have never considered them. Are there career opportunities in the JSTAR world? If you're on a JSTAR, do you like the mission? Lastly, I'm married with one child. My wife's choice is the JSTAR since she would be close to home when I deploy. Advice? Help! For God's sake man take the slick... Lets look at the mission: C-130 vs JSTARS - Actually do something as a Nav or simply learn how to fly a holding pattern... Lets look at the location: Colorado Springs vs Macon - With the possible exception of the AAA baseball team (the Macon Whoopee), CSprings would be a lot more fun. For God's sake man take the slick! Fontus
SuperWSO Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) I honestly can't comment on the career progression or joys of flight on either platform. I will say that I have been to Robbins, and I am currently living in Colorado Springs. When I got my assignment here, there were about 10 guys who would have killed me and showed up for work in my bag to get a job ANYWHERE in Colorado Springs. Robbins... well, I spent a week there one weekend. Get input from those who know about each platform, but if it was me, I would tell my wife she can grow to love Colorado and plane tickets for the inlaws are cheap. Edited March 13, 2009 by SuperWSO
Guest uscmas412 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I honestly can't comment on the career progression or joys of flight on either platform. I will say that I have been to Robbins, and I am currently living in Colorado Springs. When I got my assignment here, there were about 10 guys who would have killed me and showed up for work in my bag to get a job ANYWHERE in Colorado Springs. Robbins... well, I spent a week there one weekend. Get input from those who know about each platform, but if it was me, I would tell my wife she can grow to love Colorado and plane tickets for the inlaws are cheap. I talked to a JSTAR guy today, he had nothing but good things to say about the platform and community. On the other hand I don't see anyone saying his or her job sucked. The problem is I have to make my mind up by tomorrow morning.
drewpey Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 agreed on the slick. Pros for the slick: more than one location to be stationed more opportunities to move to other airframes later on if you want easy transition to a guard C-130 unit if you ever want to jump the fence great low level in colorado you would be involved with flying (drops, low level, etc.) rather than being rather detached from the mission in JSTARS your nuts aren't 6 feet away from a powerful radar (the pilots soak up the trons in the slick) skiing/snowboarding as said before, cheap tickets and close to a lot of great activities While deployment rates in slicks are high, the JSTARS is probably higher. Wikipedia says there are only 17, and being an ISR/C2 platform with AF and army dudes on board you can bet they get tons of real-world and exercise requests all over the world, which means lots of time on the road. Part of the fun of being a HVAA. I would be interested to hear some info about them though, it is a rare thing to see. Always heard JSTARS was a possibility but never saw one drop in the two years I was there. Of course I wasn't always sober by the time they started handing out assignments...those damn long islands will sneak up on you...
Fontus Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Alright brother, I was going to wait until the 'Cuse vs Huskies game was over, but that ain't happening. You've heard from a B-1 cat and two Talon cats, obviously we (the Talon bubbas) are partial to the 130. You have been given advice on the location and mission of both aircracft, so its up to you. Since you still seem up in the air I will leave you with this. You know how you performed in nav school. If you liked navigating an airplane, if you flew low level (I assume you do low-level in Nav school, I'm a pilot) and you liked it and you were good at it, then pick the C-130. If any of the above didn't apply, pick the E-8. The bottom line is you can't do any damage at 30,000 feet or whatever altitude the JSTARS flies at. P.S. - I realize both missions are important, and require skilled crewmembers at every crew position. I am not trying to start some stupid internet flame war. The bottom line is low level is dangerous if you suck. Fontus
stract Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 don't forget if you go to the Springs, you'll get to do fly-bys at USAFA during noon meal formation. For that reason alone you should go slicks.
Guest ITB Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I'm graduating NAV school in May, aircraft drop is tomorrow. I have two choices: 1)JSTAR to Robins 2)Slick to Peterson. I'm from SC so I'd like to be close to home, but I *think* I'd like the C-130 mission slightly more. JSTARs rarely drop at NAV school, so I really have never considered them. Are there career opportunities in the JSTAR world? If you're on a JSTAR, do you like the mission? Lastly, I'm married with one child. My wife's choice is the JSTAR since she would be close to home when I deploy. Advice? Help! Bro, Perhaps,... outside of the "pointy nose" community, you'll be hard-pressed to find a more close knit group of flying Bubbas than in the Herc world. Great plane, great mission(s), great people! I don't mean to take anything away from the JSTAR folks, because their mission is pretty important to the grunts on the ground. If you want to spend countless hours at altitude over "bad guy" land in a docile orbit...if that's your idea of fun...then the JSTAR mission is your thing. On the other hand, a good Nav really proves his or her weight in gold when your in the middle of "Kerplakistan", etc. and you've got to navigate your bird and possibly a formation of birds around various WEZs popping up all over the place, while avoiding no fly zones and bad guy surface threats in order to drop your payload (STS) spot on target, on TOT, at said DZ which may or may not lie in close proximity to the "good guys" FOB which,...Oh by the way, sits in the middle of "injun country"! Did I mention that you may get to do all of this at 300' A and on or off NVGs--cause the damn DZ is probably to "hot" to drop on in broad day light. Hell, this is just all part of the slick mission,...if you're feeling up to it, and proven you're a pretty shit hot Nav, you may get the chance to cross-flow over to do some of that cool-ass AFSOC type stuff if you are so inclined! Bottom line is that the possibilities are pretty damn limitless in the Slick world, and I don't know if the same can be said for the JSTAR folks. In the Slick, you're going to get to travel the world. You'll hit your share of shit holes along the way, but you'll also get some pretty damn good spots too. Yeah, we do get forced to eat our fair share of "shit-sandwiches", but hell who doesn't. Just look at what Big Blue has done to some our young fighter and bomber bubbas. Man, you're only young once and you'll only get this chance once! You can always go back to live in the South in the Slick world be it Little Rock, Pope, or an exchange tour with a Guard unit. The Springs is a Kick-ASS first assignment and I'm talking with a capital A. Also, if you're willing come to the dark side some day like many of us have in the Slick,...you've got a bunch of Guard units flying Hercs and Navs are in short supply in almost any unit out there,...just check the hiring board on this website if you don't believe me. Finally, pick the mission, not the airframe, that will satisfy you the most or is more appealling to you! Whatever you decide, best of luck to you, and once you make your choice don't look back, just learn all you can and have fun. Congrats on finishing UNT and best of luck.
HercDude Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 "On the other hand, a good Nav really proves his or her weight in gold when your in the middle of "Kerplakistan", etc. and you've got to navigate your bird and possibly a formation of birds around various WEZs popping up all over the place, while avoiding no fly zones and bad guy surface threats in order to drop your payload (STS) spot on target, on TOT, at said DZ which may or may not lie in close proximity to the "good guys" FOB which,...Oh by the way, sits in the middle of "injun country"! Did I mention that you may get to do all of this at 300' A and on or off NVGs--cause the damn DZ is probably to "hot" to drop on in broad day light." Once Tatoo and zee Boss clear you off Fantasy Island, you'll be back on the flight deck of a C-130 putting lat/longs in SCNS, computing CARPs, and calling "Green Light!" All of which is cool.
Mickey Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 If you pick the E-8, call it JSTARS. With that said, if you become a heavy navigator in ACC it is pretty difficult to get out of ACC. You could be stuck bouncing b/w the E-8 and E-3, at least at first.
Carpetbagger Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I talked to a JSTAR guy today, he had nothing but good things to say about the platform and community. On the other hand I don't see anyone saying his or her job sucked. The problem is I have to make my mind up by tomorrow morning. ACC Numbers... Once you're there, he can PCS to Peterson to fly slicks.
BQZip01 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I'd say to go slicks since it has many opportunities of assignments and varied missions, plus, you can roll into AFSOC a lot easier if you are so inclined. Before you make the call though, run over to the 563d and ask to talk to a few of the recce guys. The RC-135 mission isn't the same, but they are in the same corner of the world and may be able to give you some more perspective.
Toasty Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Do you want to actually work for a living? Go slicks. The location and the mission are both way better for the nav, and although you will be away from home more, you'll also see far more of the world. Man, that's a no-brainer.
Clayton Bigsby Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 A friend of mine was a JSTARS nav, and didn't like it - basically, you'll be either in southern Georgia, or at Al-Udeid. He did 4 120's there in the space of 2-3 years? I think. Were it my choice I'd go to Pete, just because you'll have way more living and flying choices in the long term, and the 'Springs is awesome in general.
busdriver Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 For what it's worth, the Peterson gym is amazing. And you'll bank a lot of money on deployments, plenty to buy your wife plane tickets back home while you're gone.
slacker Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 How is this even a question? Seriously, how? I would almost consider you too dumb for C-130s just for this question. C-130s to anywhere beats J-STARS everytime. C-130s to CSprings= no brainer. the AAA baseball team (the Macon Whoopee), CSprings would be a lot more fun. The Macon Whoopee was the hockey team, long since gone. The Macon Music was the last baseball team here. Also gone. No more braves farm teams either.
lj35driver Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 JSTARS navs sit in the back of the tube with the only window being the overwing escape hatches. C-130 navs sit up at the pointy end with a view. Where would you really rather be? Seriously, unless you really like flying 10-15 hours at a pop and landing back at the same place then there's no question about which one to choose.
Swizzle Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Easy choice in my eyes...why did you join the AF? Where do you want to be in the action? How close? Do you like variety? Or do you like monotony?
navonfire Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 As a 130 nav I am biased towards the 130, and since I am currently at Pope, I would hop at a chance at Peterson. I really enjoy the tactical part of the mission, especially the airdrop and other than Buffs, you can't throw things out on any other platform. I have the preconceived notion that all JSTARS do is burn orbits in the sky. But having seen some of the crews over in the desert I could see that as an option just for the scenery. Just keep in mind that this forum tends to lean towards herks... Either way you will end up thinking you chose correctly and that you are on the best airframe EVER! Break it down by mission elements, assignment locations, crew makeup and future options. With the slicks, you will be flying everything from 50 year old E-models to 15 yo H3s depending on location. But there is always the spookie route to follow on with. Feel free to PM me with specific questions, or just throw them out there. Everyone loves a good "my airframe is better than yours" conversation.
Guest Hueypilot812 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I've been where you are now...decisions to make. Mine was similar...I had a choice between C-21s to Peterson or Maxwell. I chose Maxwell because my ex-wife was from LA, and wanted to live in the south, much like your wife. I regret that decision, and here's why: Just because the location is "close" to where she is from doesn't guarantee she will like it there. As others have said, airplane tickets bring the family closer just as much as driving, but you can't make up the difference if the place you live in sucks. We arrived in Montgomery, and I spent the next three years listening to her tell me how much Montgomery sucked and how she hated it there. She's a southern girl, but that didn't automatically mean she'd like central Alabama, and I have a feeling you might have the same experience with central Georgia too. If I had gone to Peterson, I think she would have enjoyed that more, because there's way more to do. Not just in-town, but in the surrounding area (skiing, outdoors stuff, etc). We thought that driving the hour to Birmingham was a treat, when I could have been driving the hour to go to Denver which beats Birmingham hands down. The flying would have been better too...more west-coast trips, more hours, and just an overall more interesting assignment. I hate hearing the C-Springs C-21 guys tell me "I remember when we went to ____". It makes my stomach turn and really wish I hadn't assumed my wife knew what she wanted. The bottom line is she just thought she knew what she wanted, and I really do feel if we had gone to C-Springs, it would have been a better experience for both. Now, on to the actual meat of the assignments. I'm a Herk guy, so I'm biased. I have met plenty of E-3/E-8/RJ guys who are satisfied with their career, but none that simply love it to death. I know a LOT of Herk guys who love the Herk and wouldn't do anything else in the USAF, so take that for what it's worth. People have already mentioned the low-levels, airdrops and stuff like that, but consider this: If you go E-8, you will take off and land at the same spot (either KWRB or OTBH) every time, unless your jet catches on fire. With the Herks, not only will you do all that fun low-level/airdrop/assault stuff, but you'll have the chance to go on channel missions, SAAMs, JAATTs and a host of other missions that will take you TDY to different parts of the US (and world), hauling a variety of cargo or training with a variety of users. In my short span of operational Herk flying, I did HALO drops for the SEALS for a week in San Diego, I've dropped survival folks into Pensacola Bay for a couple days in Florida, and several times I dropped actual Army personnel at various Army DZs. All trips were a good time...hanging out with the crew in a bar in San Diego or Pensacola after flying was always fun. You'll never do that with the E-8 unless you get luck and take one to an airshow. So gut through 3 years of C-Springs...it will be much more fun than you think it will be. If living in the south is still your desire after a tour at the Springs, then Pope and Little Rock are open for business and I think you'd have no problem getting an assigment there (in fact after a good-deal assignment to KCOS, you might not be given another option). PM me if you have other questions.
slacker Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 C-130 navs sit up at the pointy end with a view. Where would you really rather be? When did C-130s get a pointy end? I must have missed that.
Boxhead Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 When did C-130s get a pointy end? It's because the sheer awesomeness of the plane give the crew Viagra-like hard-ons while they fly it. That makes one end "pointy", loads have small ones so they don't count in the equation. I kid, I kid!
brickhistory Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Not a nav, only C-130 time was in the web seats, so take this for what it's worth: E-8C JSTARS nav does sit just about even with the leading edge of the wing join with the fuselage, not on the flight deck. He has a mission console just like the ABMs/intell/Army dudes plus a set of flight instruments. The nav does the standard nav stuff plus the self-defense stuff - mostly coordinating running away (not that there's anything wrong with that), plus some mission stuff which isn't for open forum. The jet is a pig, the mission avionics - radar/computers/consoles - are freakin' cool. Warner-Robins is one of the ugliest base towns ever. Schools pretty much suck. Cost of living is good. Macon is a very easy commute should you want a little bigger town. Perry is also close if you want really small town. If you go E-8s, as mentioned, you're life is pretty much going to be E-8, E-3, maybe to some other form of the -135 at Offut. C-130s would seem to offer much more variety in both missions and locations. C-130 has the smaller crew, thus easier logistics. E-8 has a legion of folks on board so the logistics/ass pain can be greater. It is what it is and provides a great picture to dudes on the ground who need it. Good luck at whatever you fly. brick (former E-8C SMO (pronounced "SMO," and yes, I've heard every Three Stooges impression, "Hey, SMO....") Edited March 13, 2009 by brickhistory
slacker Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) It's because the sheer awesomeness of the plane give the crew Viagra-like hard-ons while they fly it. That makes one end "pointy", loads have small ones so they don't count in the equation. I kid, I kid! I always thought the plane was so bad ass that they put the blount end forward and the pointy end backward just to prove the badassness. Edited March 13, 2009 by slacker
Guest CmbtWmbt Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I always thought the plane was so bad ass that they put the blount end forward and the point end backward just to prove the badassness. yup, yup!
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