FAIP Q&A

[sky_king]

U2's are possible as a FAIP from the T-1 side. I've also heard talk about making bombers a possible outcome from T-1s as well. The T-1 bomber thing has gone back and forth several times I've heard though, so take if for what it is worth.

[Hacker]

A guy FAIP'd T-6 out of T-1s and went U-2s...that was about 1-1.5 yrs ago. So yes, it's possible, but I would think pretty hard to do. I'm sure Huggy can expand on it. I heard a rumor that as of now you have to be 38 trained to go to the B-2, but I have nothing concrete to back that up.

Realize that guy did not "get" U-2s...that assignment didn't just roll down the pipeline to him. His default assignment, had he not sought out the U-2, was going to be a KC-135. He actively went out after the assignment at Beale. He arranged on his own to go out for the interview, etc, and mostly because he was an attached OSS guy and the OSS/CC let him do it.

[HeloDude]

Realize that guy did not "get" U-2s...that assignment didn't just roll down the pipeline to him. His default assignment, had he not sought out the U-2, was going to be a KC-135. He actively went out after the assignment at Beale. He arranged on his own to go out for the interview, etc, and mostly because he was an attached OSS guy and the OSS/CC let him do it.

Hacker, you're making it sound like this guy pulled a fast one on somebody and should have never went to the U-2. With the way AFPC is currently running business, you almost have to go out and find your own assignment and pull drug deals. If you're fortunate enough to have a good commander (becoming a little more rare these days) maybe he can fight for you to get the assignment you want, but even then, it appears it's becoming much more of a 'who you know' game with AFPC. Don't get me wrong, it has always somewhat been that way and I'm sure it will be partly that way until we're all chilling out with grey beards, but when a person busts their ass for 3-4 years and then are lumped together in the same boat with people who are coasting by, that's just wrong. Don't even get me started on how they're hosing dudes volunteering for 365's and are supposed to get 'preference'.

I digress slightly, back to the original point. I applaud this dude for going out and getting a U-2 if that's what he really wanted. Most commanders would have probably just said 'well, I'll look into for you, but it's probably not going to happen blah blah blah'. He took it upon himself, did the leg work, maybe got some people to make some drug deals, and got his U-2. Besides, if the U-2 guys didn't want him, they could have always turned down his application.

[Guest Cap-10]

Helodude,

Not trying to answer for Hacker, but here's how I took his comments.

The U-2 just doesn't get assigned to someone like a KC-10 or an F-15E would during a normal FAIP VML / Assignment drop. The message goes out and anyone that wants to apply, can put a package together and submit, assuming the SQ/CC is willing to push it as well.

As for the OSS comment, the pond of fishes is normally smaller when you are attached (Wing / OSS, etc) instead of in the actual squadron, so if you are the shinging star, you are going to stand out that much more.

Cap-10

[brabus]

He actively went out after the assignment at Beale. He arranged on his own to go out for the interview, etc, and mostly because he was an attached OSS guy and the OSS/CC let him do it.

I knew that...guess I should have made it more clear. Thanks for clarifying.

[Hacker]

The U-2 just doesn't get assigned to someone like a KC-10 or an F-15E would during a normal FAIP VML / Assignment drop. The message goes out and anyone that wants to apply, can put a package together and submit, assuming the SQ/CC is willing to push it as well.

As for the OSS comment, the pond of fishes is normally smaller when you are attached (Wing / OSS, etc) instead of in the actual squadron, so if you are the shinging star, you are going to stand out that much more.

Well, yes and no.

Yes, that's what I meant...that U-2s don't just drop on FAIPs as part of the normal process.

But, there's more to it than that.

My understanding from this particular dude, whom I worked with in the OSS at Moody, was that his flying SQ/CC did not support him seeking out a job in the U-2. There was something that had occurred which made the CC want to see this individual go to the 135. It was being in the OSS, with a CC that thought he did really great work (he did...) and supported his desire to get to the U-2, that allowed him to start working the interview process at Beale.

Don't get me wrong...this guy is a very good dude, great pilot, great officer. He absolutely is an asset to the program, I'm sure. I think he got a *nearly* bad shake from a boss, though.

[RangerMateo]

Well, yes and no.

Yes, that's what I meant...that U-2s don't just drop on FAIPs as part of the normal process.

I did some asking around and they pointed me to Beale's website that actually lists FAIPs as eligible, but it definitely looked like something that you'd have to do on your own to get the ball rolling. They also said something about some guys going to the U-2 then crossflowing to a fighter since they use a T-38 to stay proficient, but that seemed sketchy to me because even though you're qual'ed in the T-38 now you still haven't done IFF or anything. Any truth to that?

Edited August 4, 2008 by RangerMateo

[The Kayla]

As an outsider reading Ranger's question, It sounds like he is asking this: If you go T-1's, you try your hardest to get FAIPed, and then you do leg work for the U-2, that you might possibly get a fighter, and he is wondering if there is any truth to this.

[brabus]

That has been done in the past, but not too many have done it, and with the growing scarcity of fighter cockpit slots, what's the AF's incentive to allow a crossflow when there's already too many fighter-trained guys who can't even get (back) in a fighter cockpit? I just don't see it as a good idea to go the U-2 route just so you can be 38-qual'd and go for a fighter crossflow.

[RangerMateo]

As an outsider reading Ranger's question, It sounds like he is asking this: If you go T-1's, you try your hardest to get FAIPed, and then you do leg work for the U-2, that you might possibly get a fighter, and he is wondering if there is any truth to this.

Yeah, pretty much. Not what I'd want to do because the only thing on the fighter side I would want would be an A-10. My cards fell how they fell and at that 38's were my third choice. I was just interested in the U-2 because it has a unique mission and someone I was talking to brought up the whole deal. I just was curious if there was anything to what he was saying. FAIP will probably be my third choice behind the two airframes about which we must not speak lest the thread be deleted!

Just to ponder Brabus' question, I suppose I could see some reasoning to taking a highly intelligent/skilled individual (ie - not me, I actually got my fourth choice...) to fill a single seat slot rather than recalling a guy that may have gotten there during a time of more liberal 38/fighter drops. Yes, yes, I know nothing, stupid LT, I've never been operational, I've never deployed to ______istan, and therefore cannot have any intelligent thoughts whatsoever...I'm just saying...

Boldface Applies

ASBESTOS SUIT - DON

Edited August 4, 2008 by RangerMateo

[HeloDude]

Yeah, pretty much. Not what I'd want to do because the only thing on the fighter side I would want would be an A-10. My cards fell how they fell and at that 38's were my third choice. I was just interested in the U-2 because it has a unique mission and someone I was talking to brought up the whole deal. I just was curious if there was anything to what he was saying. FAIP will probably be my third choice behind the two airframes about which we must not speak lest the thread be deleted!

Sorry bud, I have to raise the BS flag here just slightly. You say you would want an A-10 (if you had gone the 38 route) and that now your top two picks out of T-1's are a U-28 and an NSA. Well, from the majority of the drops I've read on here, your best chance for getting a U-28/NSA is out of 38's, not to mentio that A-10's obviously come out of 38's....but yet you say you made 38's your 3rd choice. Either your BS'ing yourself and everyone else reading this thread or you are completely oblivious to how the assignment process generally works out of UPT.

Having said all that, good luck with getting the SOF aiframes...continue working hard and I'm sure something good will come your way.

[RangerMateo]

Sorry bud, I have to raise the BS flag here just slightly. You say you would want an A-10 (if you had gone the 38 route) and that now your top two picks out of T-1's are a U-28 and an NSA. Well, from the majority of the drops I've read on here, your best chance for getting a U-28/NSA is out of 38's, not to mentio that A-10's obviously come out of 38's....but yet you say you made 38's your 3rd choice. Either your BS'ing yourself and everyone else reading this thread or you are completely oblivious to how the assignment process generally works out of UPT.

Having said all that, good luck with getting the SOF aiframes...continue working hard and I'm sure something good will come your way.

That's part of why I thought about leaving the 38's up at the top and they were until we got the dreaded "UAV's are coming" brief at which point I looked at the way things would pan out assuming the "Maybe one fighter, one U-28, and one UAV". I would have been at the bottom of that pile of three, so T-1's actually provide a better option for me. That being said, I did list Helos first and still had 38's ahead of T-1's on that off chance I would come out of that okay, we just happened to be one of those classes where there were three people that wanted (Helos) and two drops. Oh well =) Like I said, I'm happy where I'm at, but the SOF or U-2 stuff looks more appealing to me than the C-17/Tanker world.

Edited August 5, 2008 by RangerMateo

[Guest thefranchise]

Talking with some U2 guys recently, the schoolhouse may be closing up faster than thought; I dont think you would have a realistic time frame available as of now to finish UPT, PIT, and fly 800+ before U2s stop hiring new guys.

[RangerMateo]

Talking with some U2 guys recently, the schoolhouse may be closing up faster than thought; I dont think you would have a realistic time frame available as of now to finish UPT, PIT, and fly 800+ before U2s stop hiring new guys.

Useful info, thanks. Heard the Florida job is backed up now too...awesome.

[scoobs]

Talking with some U2 guys recently, the schoolhouse may be closing up faster than thought; I dont think you would have a realistic time frame available as of now to finish UPT, PIT, and fly 800+ before U2s stop hiring new guys.

I thought they weren't retiring the U-2's for awhile. Where is Huggy.

[The Kayla]

I have an "odd" question..

Some friends of ours FAIPed, and they aren't happy about it at all...

I want to be a good friend, and be there for them.. I just don't know what to say to them... I'm at a loss..

So, for any of you FAIPs out there that did NOT want to be FAIPed, what did your friends do, besides get you drunk, to help you

over this hurdle?

[Toro]

So, for any of you FAIPs out there that did NOT want to be FAIPed, what did your friends do, besides get you drunk, to help you

over this hurdle?

Leave him alone. He is about to receive an aviation rating...if he's going to have a period because he has to spend his first three years paying it forward....screw him.

Tell them that FAIPs can go to weapons school, FAIPs can go to TPS, and FAIPs can be Wing Commanders. It's three f***ing years. Tell him to stop being a pissy little bitch and get over it.

[osulax05]

Kayla, are you talking about the wife crying in front of everyone last night?

[Toro]

Kayla, are you talking about the wife crying in front of everyone last night?

Are you kidding me?

I'm pretty sure there are worse jobs in the world.

Her husband flies jets and she's crying about what exactly? Tell her to get over it.

[The Kayla]

Toro,

I'm not too sure how to respond *shrugs shoulders*. I don't know all the facts or the nitty gritty as to why he got FAIPed, I just wanted to know what I could do, as a friend, to help the wife more-so then the husband :-( and if anyone had any advice, if they were in a similar situation...

Edited August 23, 2008 by The Kayla

[sputnik]

Toro,

I'm not too sure how to respond *shrugs shoulders*. I don't know all the facts or the nitty gritty as to why he got FAIPed, I just wanted to know what I could do, as a friend, to help the wife more-so then the husband :-( and if anyone had any advice, if they were in a similar situation...

From a wife point of view....she knows the area and already has her opinion set. Tell her life will be better married to an IP than a student...otherwise...

For the pilot, tell him to grow up. There are a hell of a lot worse jobs out there, worse flying jobs too. If he doesn't want to be a FAIP, turn in his wings. Or SIE before getting them. He gets to fly, therefore it isn't a bad deal.

[The Kayla]

From a wife point of view....she knows the area and already has her opinion set. Tell her life will be better married to an IP than a student...otherwise...

For the pilot, tell him to grow up. There are a hell of a lot worse jobs out there, worse flying jobs too. If he doesn't want to be a FAIP, turn in his wings. Or SIE before getting them. He gets to fly, therefore it isn't a bad deal.

The husband took the news... everyone knew he wasn't happy, but he didn't cry like the guy did in March/April. he just shrugged it off... but, I said "congrats" to him then left him with his family and went on to babysitting Drunk Studs and roofstomping the WC's house....

I agree about what you said about "it's better to be an IP's wife then student's wife.." That is the one and only thing I actually hate about this whole experience. Being a student wife. Being kept on a leash from other wives--some more so then others but still, there is a stigma around.

[163 FS]

Toro,

I'm not too sure how to respond *shrugs shoulders*. I don't know all the facts or the nitty gritty as to why he got FAIPed, I just wanted to know what I could do, as a friend, to help the wife more-so then the husband :-( and if anyone had any advice, if they were in a similar situation...

When I was a student in T-38s, all I heard was single seat fighter this and that (as it should be). I was FAIPed and was bummed that I wasn't going to go out and do THE Job right now. That didn't last long and I really got into teaching. I enjoyed the heck out of my FAIP tour and it really made me a much better pilot. Lots of FAIPs are disgruntled when they get FAIPed, everyone knows it and nobody wants to hear it. Most FAIPs enjoy their tours, but it does get a little bit old that third year. Regardless, I'm now almost done with the A-10 B-Course and it was well worth the wait. Also, being FAIPed helps keep you from some of the non-vol assignments out there (not fully protect, but help).

It really is a great tour and it is only three years. As an added bonus, after his FAIP tour he is eligible to go teach PIT in San Antonio. I sat in on a briefing from the A-10 assignments dude and he said that he is always looking for guys that can go straight to KRND to teach PIT. That also may help keep you out of a bad deal (UAV, etc).

Hope this helps. FAIPing gets a bad name, but it really isn't that bad of a deal, I'm glad I was FAIPed.

[The Kayla]

The odd thing is:

They wanted to FAIP up until a couple of weeks ago... and then they went anti-FAIP.. I don't know what happened to change his/their mind... :-/

[Toro]

I'm not too sure how to respond *shrugs shoulders*. I don't know all the facts or the nitty gritty as to why he got FAIPed, I just wanted to know what I could do, as a friend, to help the wife more-so then the husband :-( and if anyone had any advice, if they were in a similar situation...

I'll try to put it a little more tactfully. What are her perceptions of a FAIP? How does she know what it entails? Who gave her that info? Is she sad for herself, or is she sad for her husband? If she was 'crying' at assignment night, then my guess is that she has been talking to some idiot who talked a bunch of shit about FAIPs. It doesn't matter why he got FAIPed - it's not a scarlet letter - the guy is going to spend the next three years of his life teaching dudes to fly. Ten years from now, he will be able to go to just about any AF base in the US and know somebody who he wrote a gradesheet for.

Back to your question on how to console her. Have her read back through this thread. Have her talk to FAIPs or wives of FAIPs. Ask her why in the world she was crying. Ask her if she realizes how lucky she is that her husband will be not be deployed for the next three years other than the occasional weekend cross country. Tell her how lucky she is that her husband can knock out his masters and SOS in correspondence to further his Air Force career.

I don't know anything about this woman. but the whole thing reeks of a wife who is carrying a self-imposed burden based off things she has heard, with no first hand knowledge of the facts. And I'm sorry, but wives like that are idiots.