ADP (Airman Development Plan)

[egochecks]

Hoss,

It may be that I I'm a few beers in on leave or just slow...but is your reference that the UAS community should be embarrassed at the lack of fighters in this drop?

If so, I think it's an unfortunate misunderstanding of the quality of folks who have found themselves here. It seems that to many of those in big blue RPAs/UAVs/whatever-you-want-to-call-them, that this community is the last step before an FEB and that the quality of pilots here reflect that. As I said, I think that'd be a big misunderstanding. We have our fair share of dousche bags and bad pilots/operators but it's by no means the epedemic some assume. I don't want to derail my own inquiry any further than this or "rant" against what could very well be a misunderstanding of your comment on my part. I sure as hell am not offended by the comment I just think it might be indicative of a large majority of folks looking in from the outside.

Edit: If the airforce can successfully return banked pilots to single seat cockpits, I can see no reason why flying a UAV would make that job more difficult.

Cheers.

Ego

Edited October 14, 2011 by egochecks

[egochecks]

Hoss,

Understood. I agree that all in all it is a good drop all things considered and thanks for the elaboration and the advice. Many of us in this group tracked 38s both from SUPT and ENJJPT. As I'm sure you know, 38s got hit pretty hard (sts) when they decided to dip into UPT to meet the UAS manning shortfall. Of those from that track, I'm sure there's a mixed bag of talent. Even now transitioning to the heavy world, our "spin up" will be through the 38 again and I don't think any of us are disallusioned as to the challenges that will pose. Not much of flying RPAs, apart from maybe the LRE, does anything to preserve actual flying skills. At the same time, the amount of time (well over a thousand hours for everyone up for a cockpit) in the operational environment pays it's own dividends in SA and even airmanship (imho) that will find some translation into the bigger picture as we return to the manned AF. Like I said, if the AF was able to get banked guys back into fighters, I can't see that flying UAVs will make that job more difficult. Of course the real proof will be in the pudding and we'll see what the results are about this time next year.

Thanks again for the advice and the well wishes.

Ego

[matmacwc]

We sent the #3 of 6 to RPA's, he'll do well anywhere he goes.

[Guest]

I'm AMC as well so also bi-curious. Thanks guys.

FIFY

Sorry Whitman, that was too easy and it is Friday.

[Kikuchiyo]

Essentially, will ignoring the MAJCOM/AFSC/Location tier format flag somewhere and cause a delay or worse the "mismatch" or will the people receiving the ADP understand what is meant and work through the ADPs in a logical fashion. If there is a mismatch or discrepency will the AFPC folks notifiy you or will it flag and force some sort of rejection due to inproper formatting, etc?

It's not as automated as you think. Leaving a field blank, incorrect formatting, or even filling in contradictory requests will not flag it or cause it to be rejected. It's just a form, and only humans read it. The guys at AFPC actually print it out, staple it to your SURF along with any emails from you or your CC, and work assignments from their stacks of papers. Don't worry so much about what you're putting in the boxes and fields, and put what you really want them to know in the comments.

[Whitman]

FIFY

Sorry Whitman, that was too easy and it is Friday.

Rainman, got your pm and gotta decline your invite to that "adult party" tonight....I'm all tied up

[brabus]

I'm all tied up

Sounds like you ended up going to the party.

[Mike Honcho]

Not sure about the heavy side, but at least my functional at the fighter porch (probably others as well) looks at your quals, makes sure they match up with your preferences in the comments, and matches you from there. Not too much time is given to the form tier data.

Like others have said, you've got the room in the comments section to spell it out very clearly. Good luck.

[egochecks]

Thanks to all. Should know by the end of the month.

Ego

[Hacker]

Edit: If the airforce can successfully return banked pilots to single seat cockpits, I can see no reason why flying a UAV would make that job more difficult.

FWIW, the banked pilots of the early 90s had to go through extensive re-quals in the T-38 before getting back in the "pipeline". Even then, as a generalization, they struggled in their follow-on training because of the time they'd spent out of the cockpit.

The fact that the USAF hasn't used the "bank" as a pipeline management tool again suggests that they realized it wasn't a good method.

While I agree that RPAs should not be a black hole from which no pilot ever emerges (in fact, I believe quite the opposite -- that pilots of RPAs should be free to get assignments back in the real world as manning dictates), I don't think that using the case of the banked pilots does anything to bolster your argument.

[egochecks]

Hacker,

Understood. My comments were more to the fact that I don't think flying RPA's inherently made a pilot less able to return to a fighter a/c than say the finance gig of an earlier banked pilot rather than as an evaluation of the success of the banked program.

Gen Hostage made a visit to the base today and I presented him with the question of whether or not the lack of fighters in our drop was a deliberate policy decision or based on current needs of the AF. His response was that to his knowledge it was based on needs, though it was kicked down to the obligatory note taker for a follow up. So we'll see what future drops look like.

For those interested, we're still awaiting the results. Latest development was the addition of 5 AFSOC a/c to the mix. 2 x CV-22, 1 x PC-12, 1 x DO-328, & 1 x U-28. While this naturally causes an additional delay, it's good for those who want to go that route.

Ego

Edited November 10, 2011 by egochecks

[nsplayr]

For those interested, we're still awaiting the results. Latest development was the addition of 5 AFSOC a/c to the mix. 2 x CV-22, 1 x PC-12, 1 x DO-328, & 1 x U-28. While this naturally causes an additional delay, it's good for those who want to go that route.

Nice...speaking for myself, we'd be glad to have some of you guys. Those are all great options IMHO.

FWIW, beware the PC-12 if you don't like change/uncertainty...that may or may not exist in the near future per RUMINT on the thinking of the AFSOC/CC; if you go that route you may need to transition to something else soonish after arriving at Cannon.

[egochecks]

For those interested in the UPT-D return to fly...

Results are out.

For those interested in Ego's return to fly...

C-5's, destination as of yet unknown. First choice and hella stoked! Any current info/gouge would be highly appreciated.

Cheers,

Ego

<insert frothy "das boot" icon here>

[tunes]

For those interested in the UPT-D return to fly...

Results are out.

For those interested in Ego's return to fly...

C-5's, destination as of yet unknown. First choice and hella stoked! Any current info/gouge would be highly appreciated.

Cheers,

Ego

<insert frothy "das boot" icon here>

congrats...if you go to Dover you are going to fly M's, if you go to Travis you will fly B's

[egochecks]

Tunes,

Thanks. I have a further question with regard to the upgrade but don't want to hijack the ADP thread any further so it's posted it in the C-5 thread.

Ego

[Coxor]

--Revival--

Has anyone used the PRD (personnel requirements display) to build their ADP? I'm talking about the "Search Requirements" tab on the AMS website. I've been waiting for it to get published... it's out but it's WORTHLESS. It doesn't list anything other than random odd jobs around the Air Force. I was hoping it would list every flying job that's open.

Most people I've talked to haven't heard of the PRD but from AFPC's own literature:

"The PRD is a key component of AFAS that provides visibility to all users. The PRD visibility window showcases the requisitions AFPC is planning to fill... These projected requirements should be taken into account when officers update their ADPs..."

[MilitaryToFinance]

--Revival--

Has anyone used the PRD (personnel requirements display) to build their ADP? I'm talking about the &quot;Search Requirements&quot; tab on the AMS website. I've been waiting for it to get published... it's out but it's WORTHLESS. It doesn't list anything other than random odd jobs around the Air Force. I was hoping it would list every flying job that's open.

Most people I've talked to haven't heard of the PRD but from AFPC's own literature:

&quot;The PRD is a key component of AFAS that provides visibility to all users. The PRD visibility window showcases the requisitions AFPC is planning to fill... These projected requirements should be taken into account when officers update their ADPs...&quot;

Did you search using your AFSC? I'm not a pilot so it might work better for my career field but I'm on the Summer VML and used the requirements search yesterday. It listed all open requirements for my rank and AFSC just like it should. It isn't organized very logically so I copied the results into Excel and that way you can filter based on location.

[Nineline]

Since we're talking about ADPs...

I've recently found that the ADP is fvcking worthless for those with nuke experience (msyelf included). The only way a dude with nuke experience will get a choice on thier ADP is if it magically matches with where AFPC wants to put you.

IMHO, the majority of ADPs only exist to give AFPC a metric on how bad they're fvcking you over.

-9-

[Kikuchiyo]

Line flying jobs are normally not loaded into the PRD. Commanders load vacancies for billets they want filled, but the line units work directly with AFPC to fill line billets. The PRD is there to allow you to tailor your ADP and express interest to your CC and AFPC AO.

So the jobs you're seeing are the cats-and-dogs, odd jobs, and staff jobs that are outside of line unit manning.

You can search by AFSC, but there's a lot of detail in the text, like what AFSCs are suitable substitutes, and the mandatory (M) and desired (D) quals. You can't search the text. The system is weak, but I don't think there's any money to improve it.

[schokie]

When you're searching the requirements it's not always clear what's available. You have to search in very general terms. Also, keep in mind a job description may not always match the AFSC listed. I've seen USAFE staff jobs listed under "A-10 pilot", but when you read the description you'll see that they just want a fighter guy, not specifically an A-10 dude. So search for any AFSC similar to yours and see what you get.

Here's a link for the AFPC CAF assignments page:

https://afkm.wpafb.af.mil/community/views/home.aspx?Filter=23014

You need a CAC reader to access if not using a DOD computer. It's got a bunch of great info on requirements to be filled and job opportunities. If you're not CAF, never mind.

[Nineline]

When you're searching the requirements it's not always clear what's available. You have to search in very general terms. Also, keep in mind a job description may not always match the AFSC listed. I've seen USAFE staff jobs listed under "A-10 pilot", but when you read the description you'll see that they just want a fighter guy, not specifically an A-10 dude. So search for any AFSC similar to yours and see what you get.

Here's a link for the AFPC CAF assignments page:

https://afkm.wpafb.af.mil/community/views/home.aspx?Filter=23014

You need a CAC reader to access if not using a DOD computer. It's got a bunch of great info on requirements to be filled and job opportunities. If you're not CAF, never mind.

Your posting skills are lacking - the link text is right but the said link is bad. It should be like this.

[schokie]

Thanks for the help. I will debrief myself appropriately.

[Fudge]

Since we're talking about ADPs...

I've recently found that the ADP is fvcking worthless for those with nuke experience (msyelf included). The only way a dude with nuke experience will get a choice on thier ADP is if it magically matches with where AFPC wants to put you.

IMHO, the majority of ADPs only exist to give AFPC a metric on how bad they're fvcking you over.

-9-

There, now its pretty much completely accurate. Thank goodness I don't have to worry about ADPs anymore. What a waste. I even had an O-5 tell me they are worthless. He said guess how many of his assignments came from what he had on his ADP (ODP, T-ODP, whatever)? None.

You really think AFPC (who really doesn't know you), gives a crap what your ADP says?

[Learjetter]

I work with the bubbas at AFPC often-- they are a good bunch of guys trying to match the right guy to the right opening at the right time...not as easy as it sounds. You can call and talk to your functional--and you should definitely stop in and visit next time you're at RND for a records check. The ADP is useful for letting your boss and your functional know what you want. But your DT vector takes priority. As for openings via AMS, what shows is what's loaded to show--there are A LOT of very cool jobs that will never show up due to selective hiring protocols or simple bad timing. Your CC should know about these jobs, or go read AIRMAN: The Book to learn about cool flying gigs in other MAJCOMs (like test units, Big Safari, AFFSA, AFMC, DIA, green door jobs, FAA flight check, FAA liaison, detachments that do neat stuff you never heard of, etc)...just make sure you're kicking ass at your current job and have a good attitude, and make sure your boss knows what you want to do, then let him mentor you and show you several paths to reach your career goals...then, the only variable left is timing. Good luck.

[Smokin]

You really think AFPC (who really doesn't know you), gives a crap what your ADP says?

Maybe I'm a bit of an optimist on this one as I have done pretty well on assignments, but yes, I think they do give a crap. Do well at your job to get placed high on the VML and list your choices clearly along with your intent and AFPC will help you out if they can. Obviously if you are the only guy on your VML qualified for a specific job or you're toward the bottom of the rack and stack, you probably won't get your first choice. Remember that your functional at AFPC may actually be someone you already know from previous assignments. Hell, it could be you at AFPC for your next assignment and I hope you would care what your bros want.