LJ Driver Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 I'm SURE there was a legit reason for the VC-25 and 2 F-16s to be flying around NYC, but a PA phone call to a few news stations might have been a smart move considering past events in the city... https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/F-16s...ty-on-Edge.html
Wolf424 Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 I see a cheesy Air Force commercial in our future...
Butters Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 Hell, we should merge this thread and the CoC one into the Abolish the USAF thread. Seems we do a lot of stupid shit when a dumbasses Marine is saying we are not at war. This almost make him seem right.
Guest Lockjaw25 Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 YGBSM. Especially right over lower Manhattan? Someone didn't think this through.
StoleIt Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Poorly planned. But seriously...I am always amazed at the lack of common sense/intelligence of people. AF1 is probably the most easily recognized plane in history. Look out the window, notice its AF1...realize that AF1 isn't gonna ever run into a building. Go back to work.
BQZip01 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Poorly planned. But seriously...I am always amazed at the lack of common sense/intelligence of people. AF1 is probably the most easily recognized plane in history. Look out the window, notice its AF1...realize that AF1 isn't gonna ever run into a building. Go back to work. Poorly planned my @$$. They contacted the police and city officials and they didn't bother to tell their citizens. No matter how you feel about Obama, this one's blame resides with New York City officials. As for Mayor Bloomberg's comments, "The good news is it was nothing more than an ill considered, badly conceived, insensitive photo op - with the taxpayers' money.", that's bullshit. Every official photo op is done with government tax dollars. This one was done in conjunction with other training and wasn't exclusively "Let's take a picture of Air Force One" day. Ignorance is bliss...
Butters Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Poorly planned my @$$. They contacted the police and city officials and they didn't bother to tell their citizens. No matter how you feel about Obama, this one's blame resides with New York City officials. Wrong, it is Obama's fault.. The FAA notified the New York Police Department of the flyover, telling them photos of the Air Force One jet would be taken about 1,500 feet above the Statue of Liberty around 10 a.m. Monday. It had a classified footnote that said "information in this document shall not be released to the public or the media." NYPD spokesman Paul Browne said typically a flight like this would be publicized to avoid causing a panic, but they were under orders not to in this case. Edited April 28, 2009 by Butters
flyusaf83 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Poorly planned my @$$. They contacted the police and city officials and they didn't bother to tell their citizens. No matter how you feel about Obama, this one's blame resides with New York City officials. As for Mayor Bloomberg's comments, "The good news is it was nothing more than an ill considered, badly conceived, insensitive photo op - with the taxpayers' money.", that's bullshit. Every official photo op is done with government tax dollars. This one was done in conjunction with other training and wasn't exclusively "Let's take a picture of Air Force One" day. Ignorance is bliss... Dude - a couple things... Who above said anything about Obama? A little hypersensitive, are we? Also, Obama disagrees with you. He said it was his fault - https://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090427/pl_af...exerciseapology "I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that flight caused," Obama said in a statement, adding that he approved the mission over New York -- described by other officials as a photo opportunity -- last week. Props to Obama for being man enough to admit a mistake, but wow. A low flyover by a jumbo jet over New York City. Really? I wonder if they are planning another photo op over the Pentagon soon. Edited April 28, 2009 by flyusaf83
daynightindicator Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 methinks the OPSEC bug may have bit the PA folks (regarding the "classified" note in the FAA release), but there still had to be a way to let people know in general what was happening and prevent the hysteria. I understand not wanting to disclose the location, time, and altitude of the flight, but a generic announcement might have allayed some fears. Bloomberg is pissed because he didn't know and it made him look like a clown - nothing new in politics. As for people not recognizing it as AF1 - I did an informal poll awhile back with my GFs friends (all non-military types, both men and women) and most could not identify AF1. The public is mostly ignorant about military vehicles/aircraft/rank structure/etc, especially in areas of the country without a large mil presence, like the northeast. Good or bad, that's just the way it is.
Techsan Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Probably not the best US landmark to do a photo-op with @ low altitudes.
LockheedFix Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I hear they are planning a heritage flight of B-29s over Hiroshima next. It'll be a good photo op.
Guest CAVEMAN Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Hell, we should merge this thread and the CoC one into the Abolish the USAF thread. Seems we do a lot of stupid shit when a dumbasses Marine is saying we are not at war. This almost make him seem right. How is it an AF problem. This is a DOD sanctioned/led photo ops not AF. We only fly the damn thing so why should we be worried that DOD and White House folks did not get their sh!t together?
AEWingsMN Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) WTF? Don't in form the public? WHY?!?! AF1 has come to town where I am a few times in the past few years. We always know ahead of time, and people are ready to take their own photo-ops of it landing. It's not like presidential visits are secret... and in that case the POTUS is on board too. Yet, nothing to hide. Why would this need to have been hidden? This was a needless scare. Don't know who made the decision not to notify people, so I'm not blaming anyone/agency specifically... but someone screwed up. And be honest... from that viewpoint, citizens see a grey shadow of a big plane. It's not like they are looking from the side and can see the blue paint. Especially in the distance when the thought first occurs of "oh shit that's low". And 9/11 isn't the only thing that's happened there recently. A large airliner went down just a few months ago.... shortly after 9/11 another airliner went down. No kidding the citizens were scared, it keeps happening there. Some how NYC seems to be the same type of hotbed for airliner crashes as Florida is for small plane crashes. Edited April 28, 2009 by AEWingsMN
Guest Hueypilot812 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 OK, not the best idea to fly a huge widebody airliner over the 9/11 site unannounced... On another note, it frustrates me to see everyone in politics scrambling...Bloomberg came down harsh, and it seems more like a face-saving exercise. But the real let down is Obama was said to be "furious" and the press is letting him slide...it was his WHMO director that requested the flight, but the media/public is laying the blame right at the front door of the DoD and the USAF. Just a year or two ago, if this had happened, G.W. Bush himself would have been the target of blame, even if it was ordered by an AF commander. Just goes to show that Obama has a lot of power and ability to divert negative attention away from him. I guarantee you that no one at the White House is going to be singled out for blame, and that lower-level DoD/USAF guys are going to get reamed. Funny...didn't it work that way during the Clinton years too?
slacker Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I'll bet there are multiple lawsuits in the works now. What's the over/under on the first one filed?
JarheadBoom Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I'll bet there are multiple lawsuits in the works now. What's the over/under on the first one filed? I was thinking the same thing. My money's on *before the end of the week*.
Ill Destructor Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 "Oh noes... a plane over New York... with fighters escorting it?! Did the terrorists hijack our F-16s, too?! Run for the hills!" I hate John Q. Public.
Seriously Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 "Oh noes... a plane over New York... with fighters escorting it?! Did the terrorists hijack our F-16s, too?! Run for the hills!" I hate John Q. Public. To be fair, they might have assumed that the F-16 had intercepted the hijacked "airliner."
Guest Mack2004 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 As for people not recognizing it as AF1 - I did an informal poll awhile back with my GFs friends (all non-military types, both men and women) and most could not identify AF1. The public is mostly ignorant about military vehicles/aircraft/rank structure/etc, especially in areas of the country without a large mil presence, like the northeast. Good or bad, that's just the way it is. That is the absolute truth. Coming from the northeast I can say that almost everyone I know that wasn't in before or isn't currently in the service is utterly clueless on all things military. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I had to tell people that AF wears BDU's (back when I was enlisted) and not just the Army, and don't even get me started on trying to explain the O/E difference. I would never expect the average citizen in the northeast to be able to identify any AF/DoD aircraft, even AF1. A good friend of mine had to evacuate her building yesterday in Jersey City. She called me assuming that I knew what was going on despite the fact that I was briefing for a sim (people in the northeast also assume I know about everything the AF does). I have to side with the public on this one though, seeing I know a lot of people that were around there on 9/11. Maybe with a different audience or with more publicity it wouldn't have been a big deal, but to have a "big f'ing jet" (my friend's words when I asked what type of plane) circling over Manhattan at relatively low altitudes? What sort of reaction were they expecting from the public?
pawnman Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 So we now need to publish the flight plans of all large aircraft in the NY Times? "Muhammed, did you see AF 1 will be over the apartment building tomorrow? Did the Stinger come from EBay yet?"
Steve Davies Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 So we now need to publish the flight plans of all large aircraft in the NY Times? "Muhammed, did you see AF 1 will be over the apartment building tomorrow? Did the Stinger come from EBay yet?" I don't think that is a valid point. As has already been explained, the landing destination and times of AF1 (and that means the real AF1, with POTUS onboard) are not secret in many cases. When Obama visited the UK a couple of weeks back, the airport he was due to land at and his ETA were all over the news well prior to the event.
Batman Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Somebody is going to lose their job over this. Very likely will be Director of WHMO, but the interesting thing is that when the Boss isn't on the jet, movement of the VC-25 rests almost entirely at the Presidential Airlift Group (PAG). Especially, when there's some pilot proficiency "training" tagged to the flight, as this one had. I'd bet the request for this photo op came more from the puzzle palace or the PAG, not the WH. I'd venture to guess with the new Presidential Pilot they may have been trying to replace the much publicized, standard AF-1 pic of Mt Rushmore with a new backdrop. Very unfortunate selection of NYC, but bet it came from the PAG. Colonel Turner is a great guy too, so I hope this was a WHMO mistake vs. PAG. We'll see... Batman
WheelsOff Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Personally I take the opposite view that people need to calm down and stop freaking out and panicking over stuff like this. It's not the government's responsibility to inform everyone in the NYC area that a plane will be doing a photo op. Just my .02 Edited April 28, 2009 by dml02b
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