Renting Airplanes in UPT

[Guest thawkpa38]

Is it possible to go to an FBO and rent airplanes while in UPT or is there a restriction on that? I am not looking to go and practice maneuvers or anything of the sort. I am just curious if I can go and get a $100 hamburger from time to time.

[VFR800]

Is it possible to go to an FBO and rent airplanes while in UPT or is there a restriction on that? I am not looking to go and practice maneuvers or anything of the sort. I am just curious if I can go and get a $100 hamburger from time to time.

Your squadron commander will have to give you a hazardous activities briefing and sign a form. A PITA, but not prohibited...although what's the point? It's not like you're going to have time...

[TailWind]

And not for nothing, but I would imagine there are plenty of XC's in the syllabus where you could buy a hamburger at your destination and save about $95.26.

[brabus]

You're not going to have time. Plus, why the hell would you shell out a bunch of bucks to go fly some little bug smasher when you're getting paid to fly something a million times better. I don't see any logic in that. You'll get plenty of flying in during the week...I think the last thing you'll want to do is go bore yourself in a 172.

[Guest Alarm Red]

Is it possible to go to an FBO and rent airplanes while in UPT or is there a restriction on that? I am not looking to go and practice maneuvers or anything of the sort. I am just curious if I can go and get a $100 hamburger from time to time.

I'm not sure why people reply to questions if they are intentionally not going to answer them.

That being said, it's possible there are local requirements (high-risk activities worksheets and the like) concerning renting light aircraft. I did it a couple times from Woodring in Enid but I don't recall having to ask permission or jump through any hoops.

As far as not having time, that will depend on you. If I had reallocated 10% of my partying time at UPT to flying Cessnas, I'd have built up a lot of Cessna time. Also I'm busier now in the Viper than I was at UPT but still rent light aircraft here and there. Your mileage may vary.

[XL0901]

Your squadron commander will have to give you a hazardous activities briefing and sign a form. A PITA, but not prohibited...although what's the point? It's not like you're going to have time...

"Don't even bother putting it down on the sheet cause it won't be approved"

What was said to us when we asked about civil flying during inprocessing. Maybe base specific but our OG was pretty clear. Beside save your money, get some beer, buy a grill and have a cookout. It will be 10 times more rewarding at the end of the week in UPT than flying that cessna.

[Boxhead]

"Don't even bother putting it down on the sheet cause it won't be approved"

They told us that too, but we had a particularly tenacious student in our class...goes to the JAG and finds out that technically you don't need permission...IF you already have the training. (eg, if you have a pilots license)

I would not go rent anything based off some random Internet post about Vance 10 years ago though.

What UPT are people going through that have no time to do anything?

[Right Seat Driver]

Is it possible to go to an FBO and rent airplanes while in UPT or is there a restriction on that? I am not looking to go and practice maneuvers or anything of the sort. I am just curious if I can go and get a $100 hamburger from time to time.

Like others have said, you can rent airplanes on the weekend but it will most likely involve a high risk activities brief. No big deal. The only restriction I can remember is you cannot pursue a rating above what you already have. I can't remember where it is written, though.

[Slander]

You're not going to have time. Plus, why the hell would you shell out a bunch of bucks to go fly some little bug smasher when you're getting paid to fly something a million times better. I don't see any logic in that. You'll get plenty of flying in during the week...I think the last thing you'll want to do is go bore yourself in a 172.

2.

Why waste your time cruising around at your t-6 final approach speed in a plane you're paying for? Go for the freebie lunches at the FBOs for topping off your tanks on the fuel contract. If you REALLY want to do it you can, but honestly you'll probably want the weekends to do things other than fly. I realize that's hard to believe but just wait and see. I asked the same question before I started and I like my saturdays when I sleep in and do yard work or mess around with my jeep and don't study. Technique only though.

EDIT: spelling

Edited May 6, 2009 by FSUBadger

[Guest Alarm Red]

2.

Why waste your time cruising around at your t-6 final approach speed in a plane you're paying for? Go for the freebie lunches at the FBOs for topping off your tanks on the fuel contract. If you REALLY want to do it you can, but honestly you'll probably want the weekends to do things other than fly. I realize that's hard to believe but just wait and see. I asked the same question before I started and I like my saturdays when I sleep in and do yard work or mess around with my jeep and don't study. Technique only though.

EDIT: spelling

The guy asked if it was possible, not if you found it worthwhile.

[Hacker]

They told us that too, but we had a particularly tenacious student in our class...goes to the JAG and finds out that technically you don't need permission...IF you already have the training. (eg, if you have a pilots license)

Other than the fact that the guy on G-series orders higher than you in the chain of command told you not to?

[Boxhead]

Other than the fact that the guy on G-series orders higher than you in the chain of command told you not to?

Yep. Commanders can't just limit what you do in your off duty time unless they have a valid reason. Orders still have to be lawful. In this case, they found that it is only considered "High Risk" if you are training...not if you already hold a license to do it.

All I know is the JAG called our Sq CC in the 33rd and told him that they can't make the guy not fly on his off time.

FWIW...this "guy" was not me...I was too drunk on the weekends to fly anything...it was tough enough just keeping my car on the road!

[Coasta]

SA for you young guys...

DO NOT BE THAT GUY. Hope he enjoys turning left at FL310 for the rest of his career about 30 feet forward for dudes controlling the fight...

Regardless of what airframe he ends up in, you dont behave like this, especially as an LT. The USAF is not Burger King. Shut up, color and do well at UPT.

Clue bird: the USAF PAYS YOU to fly 5 days a week for 54 weeks. I think you can save your $, dumbass... Falling on your sword for an hour of 152 time shows a total lack of SA in my books.

Learn some descretion for fooks sake... if the answer is no and your an LT in a formal training program, THE ANSWER IS NO. Wait until you have your wings and an assignment and youre not an LT to start pissing off the world. Thats what I did!

Chuck

2

Congratulations Chuck! You are officially "them." One day, I think you are going to single-handedly unpussify the USAF .

[Hacker]

Yep. Commanders can't just limit what you do in your off duty time unless they have a valid reason. Orders still have to be lawful. In this case, they found that it is only considered "High Risk" if you are training...not if you already hold a license to do it.

Not buying that. There is no "valid reason" filter to a Commander's orders that make them lawful or unlawful.

[discus]

SA for you young guys...

DO NOT BE THAT GUY. Hope he enjoys turning left at FL310 for the rest of his career about 30 feet forward for dudes controlling the fight...

Chuck

Hey! I resemble that remark!! We turn right sometimes too! Or, if things get REALLY crazy, a figure 8!

I think what you were looking for was "Hope he enjoys sitting in a booth for the rest of his career and renting 152's on weekends so he can "REALLY fly".

[Boxhead]

DO NOT BE THAT GUY. Hope he enjoys turning left at FL310 for the rest of his career about 30 feet forward for dudes controlling the fight...

He ended up in F-15Cs...funny thing, IPs are supposed to grade you on your skills, not if you rocked the boat. Your assertion that the UPT IPs are not mature enough or don't have enough integrity to do so is kinda harsh, don't ya think? I did just fine after I slammed my breaks on in the Tweet and told my FAIP that I was going to fu*king kill him or apprehend him if he ever slapped my helmet again. Nothing but top picks from track select onward...

Not buying that. There is no "valid reason" filter to a Commander's orders that make them lawful or unlawful.

That's cool, you don't have to buy anything. You're just wrong on this one, as long as you are cool with that, all is well.

[Boxhead]

they have the same proportions of douchebags in the front end that the rest of our platforms have.

Some dudes are just hopeless...

There my friend, we totally agree. It's not just platforms, but every AFSC out there. :)

[jice]

How about renting aircraft or flight instructing on the weekends/off time while on casual? I'd like to keep flight instructing or at least stay current before IFS and UPT; is this possible? To me, its worthwhile, so how would I go about doing it?

[discus]

Tongue in cheek gents... sarcasm doesnt come across very well via the Al Gore's internet.

The REALLY funny thing is that everyone bags on AWACS dudes, but in my limited experience, they have the same proportions of douchebags in the front end that the rest of our platforms have.

Some dudes are just hopeless...

Chuck

True statement, Chuck. I was just feeding ya crap back. Wouldn't have it any other way.

[KWings06j]

Not buying that. There is no "valid reason" filter to a Commander's orders that make them lawful or unlawful.

A Commander cannot just issue a blanket banning of activities without reason. However if the activity is having a direct effect on the mission then they can place restrictions on it to mitigate those effects. For example they can't ban you from scuba diving. However you can't fly within so many hours of scuba diving so the first time you have to be scratched off the flight schedule because of your scuba diving then they can make restrictions or extra requirements to ensure it doesn't conflict again.

Also there are regs prohibiting you from taking civilian flight training while enrolled in military flight training for similar reasons. There can be negative transfer, bad instruction, or other issues with the civilian training that they don't want to effect your military training.

How about renting aircraft or flight instructing on the weekends/off time while on casual? I'd like to keep flight instructing or at least stay current before IFS and UPT; is this possible? To me, its worthwhile, so how would I go about doing it?

This is allowed though you may have to fill out a high risk activity form. While you are in IFS or in UPT though you cannot take instruction. This means if you don't have a PPL during those periods you will not be able to fly except for the military training. If you do have a PPL during those periods you will not be allowed to add any ratings to it. I highly doubt they would ever check to see if you were doing it anyway but if something happened and the military found out it could have some stiff consequences. Just talk to your supervisor about getting the high risk paperwork (Form 29B if your in AETC, might not even be any paperwork elsewhere). After that you're pretty much free to do what you want except as mentioned above.

[tac airlifter]

Yes you are allowed and I think it's a fine idea. I fly every chance I get, nothing wrong with that at all. Flying on your own for a weekend out-n-snack is nothing like flying with the IP in your chili non-stop. Have fun.

[Hacker]

A Commander cannot just issue a blanket banning of activities without reason. However if the activity is having a direct effect on the mission then they can place restrictions on it to mitigate those effects. For example they can't ban you from scuba diving. However you can't fly within so many hours of scuba diving so the first time you have to be scratched off the flight schedule because of your scuba diving then they can make restrictions or extra requirements to ensure it doesn't conflict again.

Also there are regs prohibiting you from taking civilian flight training while enrolled in military flight training for similar reasons. There can be negative transfer, bad instruction, or other issues with the civilian training that they don't want to effect your military training.

Exactly my point. There's nothing in Article 90 of the UCMJ that says it has to be a "valid reason" -- it just has to impact the military mission or good order and discipline. There are a million different ways that can be interpreted by a Commander which makes a ban of GA flying a perfectly legal order.

There's a reason the SJA works for the Commander.

[asdf]

You're not going to have time. Plus, why the hell would you shell out a bunch of bucks to go fly some little bug smasher when you're getting paid to fly something a million times better. I don't see any logic in that. You'll get plenty of flying in during the week...I think the last thing you'll want to do is go bore yourself in a 172.

You have been so brainwashed by the AF and your need to become a Hot Sh*t fighter pilot that you don't understand the love for simply flying. I assume you never experienced GA flying before going to UPT, and if you did it could only be from some flight training school. If you had flown, like the original guy that asked this question, you would know how fun it is to takeoff... not talk to anyone and simply FLY. You might not be going 300 kts in a 172 but you can fly into a grass strip walk to a local breakfast place and have just as much fun as Brabus does saying "so to speak" and pointing with his elbows. Enjoying the simple side of flying in a small GA airplane is something that I missed during UPT and would encourage you to do if you can make the time.

As for if you are allowed... I agree with what most have said. We just had to fill out a hazardous duty form to fly and there were no restrictions. However, if your leadership says no for some reason then just shut up an color. That leadership thinks that limiting your personal activates will make you a better student, but ultimately it comes down to your time management skills and task prioritization.

Don't get me wrong... flying an AF jet is a blast, but there is something to be said when you are not getting graded for everything you are doing and just having a good time with your friends in the air.

[Horns05]

Exactly my point. There's nothing in Article 90 of the UCMJ that says it has to be a "valid reason" -- it just has to impact the military mission or good order and discipline. There are a million different ways that can be interpreted by a Commander which makes a ban of GA flying a perfectly legal order.

There's a reason the SJA works for the Commander.

Apparently the SJA was wrong because the base JAG said it wasn't a lawful order.

Rent plane...have fun...enjoy the cheeseburger. Don't let any douches on here tell you what is more fulfilling in life. Hopefully aeroclub rates come back down now that 100LL is getting cheaper. Sadly they probably wont.

[brabus]

You have been so brainwashed by the AF and your need to become a Hot Sh*t fighter pilot that you don't understand the love for simply flying. I assume you never experienced GA flying before going to UPT, and if you did it could only be from some flight training school. If you had flown, like the original guy that asked this question, you would know how fun it is to takeoff... not talk to anyone and simply FLY. You might not be going 300 kts in a 172 but you can fly into a grass strip walk to a local breakfast place and have just as much fun as Brabus does saying "so to speak" and pointing with his elbows. Enjoying the simple side of flying in a small GA airplane is something that I missed during UPT and would encourage you to do if you can make the time.

I had 160 hrs of GA time prior to UPT and probably another 20 hrs of "not logged" time with friends. I've flown to many "podunk" airports for a meal. I had great times flying GA. So, maybe next time you should have a little SA and not start talking out of your ass.

Look, I can see your point about "relaxed" flying and how you can't get that in the military. However, at the very least bring into your crosscheck the immense cost of GA today and tell me how the hell it really makes sense to shell out a bunch of money to go fly on the weekend when 1. You get PAID to fly far cooler aircraft (even if it's more stressful) 2. After 5 days of UPT, you're probably not going to want to spend your free afternoon of the week flying (and if you do...fine, but that'd be like being an indy car driver all week and then having that burning desire to go drive a Yugo on the weekend). I can see once in a while doing it (sts) b/c your GF is in town and you want to take her up or something like that. Whatever, I guess you just don't get the same satisfaction out of your job that I do. Different strokes for different folks.