North Korea at it again

[DuckHunter]

BREAKING NEWS — North Korea announced Monday that it successfully carried out an underground nuclear test, weeks after threatening to restart its rogue atomic program.

FOX News

[Guest MegaPieBoy]

BREAKING NEWS — North Korea announced Monday that it successfully carried out an underground nuclear test, weeks after threatening to restart its rogue atomic program.

FOX News

This demands bold action from the United States...we should immediately dismantle any programs related to missile defense, and expand acquisitions of UAVs to keep on eye on the situation progress.

On a more serious note, does anyone in S. Korea or someone who has been there know how big a deal this is for our guys and gals over there? I'd guess that they are probably on high alert, but maybe we've known about this for awhile and its not that big of a deal.

[Vertigo]

I'd guess that they are probably on high alert...

That phrase reminds me of some bad 80's war movie where everyone in the Air Force wears the service dress as their everyday uniform and an A1C has a direct line on his radar console to the president.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Vertigo

[Wolf424]

I'm sorry but this is all I can think of when I think of North Korea.

[Danger41]

I'm sorry but this is all I can think of when I think of North Korea.

You're breakin' my balls Hans, you're breakin' my balls!

[Guest jfuller331]

This demands bold action from the United States...we should immediately dismantle any programs related to missile defense, and expand acquisitions of UAVs to keep on eye on the situation progress.

On a more serious note, does anyone in S. Korea or someone who has been there know how big a deal this is for our guys and gals over there? I'd guess that they are probably on high alert, but maybe we've known about this for awhile and its not that big of a deal.

I was there in 2006 when they tested their first one, and found out from the news. We didn't go on alert, have a recall, or anything, but the S. Korean military did.

[BQZip01]

They are just flexing their muscle. Sure, they have the nuke and it's a great deterrent, but we don't plan on invading them anyway. They know they can't sustain a war against the South and the U.S., so we're just waiting for their regime to collapse. It can't hold out forever; their plan for their country isn't sustainable.

[Marjackson82]

...their plan for their country isn't sustainable.

I wonder if Kim Jon Il is thinking the same about us.

Edit: *Jong

Edited May 26, 2009 by positiveg

[Guest Smoke_Jaguar4]

BREAKING NEWS — North Korea announced Monday that it successfully carried out an underground nuclear test, weeks after threatening to restart its rogue atomic program.

FOX News

We need to 'test fire' one of our ICBMs into the Bay of Korea, 12.1 nautical miles from the coast due west of Pyongyang.

[donkey]

North Korea Warns of Military Strike on South After Restarting Nuke Plant

https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522103,00.html

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea's military says it considers South Korea's participation in a U.S.-led program to intercept ships suspected of spreading weapons of mass destruction tantamount to a declaration of war against the North.

The communist North's military said in a statement Wednesday that it will respond with "immediate, strong military measures" if the South actually stops and searches any North Korean ships under the Proliferation Security Initiative.

The statement, carried by the North's Korean Central News Agency, said North Korea no longer considers itself bound by the armistice that ended the Korean War, as a protest over the South's participation.

South Korea announced its participation in the anti-proliferation program Tuesday, one day after the North conducted a nuclear test.

North Korea has restarted a weapons-grade nuclear plant and fired five short-range missiles in two days, news reports and South Korean officials said Wednesday, deepening the North's standoff with world powers following its latest nuclear test.

The missile launches came as the U.N. Security Council debated possible new sanctions against the isolated communist nation for its nuclear test on Monday. Retaliatory options were limited, however, and no one was talking publicly about military action.

South Korea's mass-circulation Chosun Ilbo newspaper reported that U.S. spy satellites have detected steam coming from a nuclear facility at North Korea's main Yongbyon plant, indicating the North is reprocessing spent nuclear fuel rods to harvest weapons-grade plutonium.

Its report quoted an unnamed official. South Korea's Defense Ministry and the National Intelligence Service — the country's main spy agency — said they cannot confirm the report.

The North had said it would begin reprocessing in protest over international criticism of its April 5 rocket launch.

North Korea is believed to have enough plutonium for at least half a dozen atomic bombs. The North also has about 8,000 spent fuel rods which, if reprocessed, could allow the country to harvest 13-18 pounds of plutonium — enough to make at least one nuclear bomb, experts said.

Yonhap news agency carried a similar report later Wednesday, saying the gate of a facility storing the spent fuel rods was spotted open several times since mid-April. The report, also citing an unnamed South Korean official, said chemical-carrying vehicles were spotted at Yongbyon.

North Korea's military also says it considers South Korea's participation in a U.S.-led program to intercept ships suspected of spreading weapons of mass destruction tantamount to a declaration of war against the North.

The communist North's military said in a statement Wednesday that it will respond with "immediate, strong military measures" if the South actually stops and searches any North Korean ships under the Proliferation Security Initiative.

The statement, carried by the North's Korean Central News Agency, said North Korea no longer considers itself bound by the armistice that ended the Korean War, as a protest over the South's participation.

South Korea announced its participation in the anti-proliferation program Tuesday, one day after the North conducted a nuclear test.

North Korea test-fired three additional short-range missiles Tuesday, including one late at night, from the east coast city of Hamhung, according to South Korean Defense Ministry spokesman Won Tae-jae. He said the North already test-launched two short-range missiles from another eastern coast launch pad on Monday, not the three reported by many South Korean media outlets.

More could be planned.

North Korea has warned ships to stay away from waters off its west coast through Wednesday, suggesting more test flights.

Details of Monday's nuclear test may take days to confirm. Russian defense officials said the blast was roughly as strong as the bombs dropped on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II and was stronger than North Korea's first test in 2006.

In New York, U.N. diplomats said key nations were discussing a Security Council resolution that could include new sanctions against North Korea.

Ambassadors from the five permanent veto-wielding council members — the United States, Russia, China, Britain and France — as well as Japan and South Korea were expected to meet again soon, the diplomats said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the meeting is private.

The Security Council met in emergency session Monday and condemned the nuclear test. Council members said they would follow up with a new legally binding resolution.

How far China and Russia, both close allies of North Korea, would go remained the main question.

Russia, once a key backer of North Korea, condemned the test. Moscow's U.N. ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, also the Security Council president, said the 15-member body would begin work "quickly" on a new resolution.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu also said Beijing "resolutely opposed" the nuclear test. It urged Pyongyang to return to negotiations under which it had agreed to dismantle its atomic program.

North Korea is "trying to test whether they can intimidate the international community" with its nuclear and missile activity, said Susan Rice, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

"But we are united, North Korea is isolated, and pressure on North Korea will increase," Rice said.

Diplomats acknowledged, however, that there were limits to the international response and that past sanctions have had only spotty results.

North Korea seemed unfazed by the condemnation.

Thousands of Pyongyang residents, including senior military and party officials, gathered Tuesday in a stadium to celebrate the successful nuclear test.

Choe Thae Bok, a high-ranking party official, was quoted by North Korea's official news agency as saying that the nuclear test "was a grand undertaking" to protect the country against "the U.S. imperialists' unabated threat to mount a pre-emptive nuclear attack and (put) sanctions and pressure upon it."

North Korea blamed the escalating tensions in the region on Washington, saying the U.S. was building up its forces, and defended its nuclear test as a matter of self-preservation.

At the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva, An Myong Han, a diplomat from the North Korean mission, said his country "could not but take additional self-defense measures, including nuclear tests and the test launch of long-range missiles, in order to safeguard our national interest."

[Bronco130]

Theoretically.....and highly improbable N. Korea would be dumb enough to do anything in the first place, BUT...

If S. Korea inspects N. Korea's ships -> N. Korea attacks S. Korea -> S. Korea + USA (?) destroy N. Korea -> China steps in (?)

Unknowns are highlighted by the question marks. What is the probability we step in to aid S. Korea (I'm guessing high) and furthermore what is the probability China would step in for N. Korea's aid since they are close allies.

Anyone a world affair guru?

*Edited for spelling

Edited May 27, 2009 by Maven

[Guest Cap-10]

Theoretically.....and highly improbable N. Korea would be dumb enough to do anything in the first place, BUT...

If S. Korea inspects N. Korea's ships -> N. Korea attacks S. Korea -> S. Korea + USA (?) destroy N. Korea -> China steps in (?)

Unknowns are highlighted by the question marks. What is the probability we step in to aid S. Korea (I'm guessing high) and furthermore what is the probability China would step in for N. Korea's aid since they are close allies.

Anyone a world affair guru?

*Edited for spelling

You call the US aiding S Korea when nK attacks an unknown?????

There is a little thing called US Forces Korea. It's run by a 4 star general who works at Yongsan Army Garrison in Seoul, The Army has FOB's all along the DMZ (Camp Casey, Red Cloud, etc) as well as another 69 scattered around the country. The Air Force has permanent fighter bases at Osan and Kunsan as well as a continous bomber presense at Guam. The Navy's 7th Fleet carrier isn't based in Japan just for the sushi. The USMC have asests at Iwakuni.

I say with 169% conviction that the US would fight with the ROK in the face of a nK attack.

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Hercster]

Preemptive strike anyone? J/K. But seriously, Israel had the right idea IMHO.

[ClearedHot]

Preemptive strike anyone? J/K. But seriously, Israel had the right idea IMHO.

The problem is a preemptive strike will kill the nuke facility, but not the ginormous number of artillery tubes nK has within range of Seoul.

I forget the actual number of tubes the north has, but even a few rounds raining down on a city of 10 Million would be an epic catastrophe.

[Bronco130]

Cap-10 you seem to be in the know. How are China's forces dispersed in/around N. Korea? I know China condemned the nuke test/missile launches..so do you think that is a '###### you N. Korea you're on your own'?

[Guest Cap-10]

Cap-10 you seem to be in the know. How are China's forces dispersed in/around N. Korea? I know China condemned the nuke test/missile launches..so do you think that is a '###### you N. Korea you're on your own'?

I'm not in the know about anything involving China...it's just common sense knowing where our military bases are around the world. Bases in Qatar and UAE support OIF/ OEF...bases in SE Asia are there to kick nK's ass, and to protect Taiwan.

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Marjackson82]

I hope I make it in before anything happens. (if it does)

[slacker]

I hope I make it in before anything happens. (if it does)

it won't be pretty.

[yzl337]

I remember being involved with a study on options (in the 90s), good and bad. After the study was completed, the list was : Good - 0; Bad - dozens. Best option, stay as is.

(EDIT: Oops, just noticed my son was on my computer. HiFlyer)

Edited May 27, 2009 by yzl337

[Guest Smoke_Jaguar4]

Cap-10 you seem to be in the know. How are China's forces dispersed in/around N. Korea?

I think this question calls for the OPSEC Flag.

[ClearedHot]

Seoul has just under 25 million inhabitants. Half the population of the entire country packed in like a human ant farm.

Since you saw fit to correct me... fights on;

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul

With a population of over 10 million, it is one of the world's largest cities.[1] The Seoul National Capital Area - which includes the major port city of Incheon and satellite towns in Gyeonggi-do, has 24.5 million inhabitants[2] and is the world's second largest metropolitan area.[3]

1. Thomas Brinkhoff, www.citypopulation.de; South Korea, The registered population of the South Korean provinces and urban municipalities Registered population 2007-12-31. Retrieved on 2008-12-31.

2. https://www.index.go.kr/egams/stts/jsp/pota...%9D%B8%EA%B5%AC

3. R.L. Forstall, R.P. Greene, and J.B. Pick, "Which are the largest? Why published populations for major world urban areas vary so greatly", City Futures Conference, (University of Illinois at Chicago, July 2004) – Table 5 (p.34)

[Wolf424]

I'd guess that they are probably on high alert

U.S., S. Korea Troops on High Alert (whatever that means)

[ClearedHot]

Haha. "Fight's on??" Seriously?

Ok, you beat me...damn, foiled by a dork on wikipedia again! I'm just saying there's a shit-load of DAK's in (excuse me, in and around) Seoul. I agree with you,...just highlighting that artillery's going to kill a TON more people than most American's realize, having never been to this gem of a country.

Still want to quibble about the trivial? Try to overfly Seoul and point at where Seoul ends and Gyeonggi-do starts. Good luck.

It was a joke, stick your humorless skull up your arse.

U.S., S. Korea Troops on High Alert (whatever that means)

It means a lot of dudes are hanging out in the HTACC, the single worst smelling building I have ever been in.

Edited May 28, 2009 by ClearedHot

[ClearedHot]

We always focus on what the USAF has in South Korea, but if you a true "dork" and want to know a little more about what the South Koreans have to face off against nK, take a look at this open source layout of the ROKAF.

[aspec]

The problem is a preemptive strike will kill the nuke facility, but not the ginormous number of artillery tubes nK has within range of Seoul.

I forget the actual number of tubes the north has, but even a few rounds raining down on a city of 10 Million would be an epic catastrophe.

If I'm not mistaken, it's 30,000+ artillery pieces aimed at Seoul. I remember reading somewhere that Seoul would lay in ruins in a matter of hours (assuming that many artillery pieces are actually used). I wonder what ever happened to those tunnels North Korea was digging to Seoul. Either way, it would definitely be a catastrophe. Maybe the ROK needs to create another "Unit 684" like they did back in the late 60's except actually use them this time.