North Korea at it again

[338skybolt]

Cliffs notes version of N. Korea today courtesy of the Herald Sun.

Cartman never poops? They have no Milk of Magnesia in N. Korea?

[Ram]

Cartman never poops? They have no Milk of Magnesia in N. Korea?

We all know what really happens...

[HU&W]

Possibly spinning up missiles.

[M2]

Anyone else notice/hear that USFK's website was TU'd for the past week?!?

[HercDude]

With the Cold War over, and South Korea possessing a modern, well-equipped military that is no longer threatened by China, can any one explain why we give a shit about what is happening in Korea (other than we have a ton of troops there)?

More to the point, if we withdrew a majority of our troops from South Korea, and allowed them to defend themselves (which they can do), what reason would we have to give a shit what Kim Jong-un is doing? His rants and saber-rattling are meant for a domestic audience in the first place, so if we are mostly out of the picture, doesn't that make it a better situation for all parties? I'm not saying we abandon an ally - just that I don't see why we have 30,000 troops there.

I know why we fought in Korea in 1950. But the world - and especially South Korea - is a lot different now. What am I missing?

[discus]

NOTAM advisory from Kadena AFB Aero Club...

Attention all Aero Club pilots: NO VFR flights are authorized to include closed traffic patterns until the 13th of April or until further notice due to the NOTAM posted below.

M0503/13 - ALL VFR AIRCRAFT ARE REQUESTED TO AVOID FLYING IN THE BELOW-EXPLAINED AIRSPACE TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE DUE TO THE POSSIBILITY OF DANGER FROM INTERCEPTOR MISSILES LAUNCHED TO DESTROY INCOMING NORTH KOREAN MISSILIES OR MISSILE FRAGMENTS. AIRSPACE: WITHIN A 16-NM (30-KM) RADIUS CENTERED ON KADENA TACAN (KAD) 262223N 1274732E. REMARKS/EXCEPTIONS: 1) ALL VFR AIRCRAFT, INCLUDING GOVERNMENT AND MEDICAL EVACUATION AIRCRAFT ARE REQUESTED TO COORDINATE IN ADVANCE WITH NAHA RADAR APPROACH CONTROL. 2) FOR PRIOR CORRDINATION WITH NAHA RADAR APPROACH CONTROL, CALL 098-961-4647. SFC - UNL, 10 APR 01:35 2013 UNTIL 13 APR 01:35 2013. CREATED: 10 APR 01:44 2013

[LockheedFix]

Last time I checked, having 30K troops in South Korea lets us keep an eye on more than just the guys on the other side of the DMZ.

[HercDude]

...Are you high?

They have nuclear weapons, an ever-increasing ability to deliver them, and they make constant references to annihilating America. ....Ohh, and we have a couple other regional interests that are and/or would be affected by N. Korean shenanigans.

OK, let me clarify. I know why we are currently heavily invested in Korea. There are a ton of American's there - got it. I'm not suggesting right now we should be ignoring the North.

I'm all ears for the argument to pull the 30k troops off the pen (and how that might alter N. Korean behavior in the future), but that's a separate debate than wondering why we give a shit about what the Un'er is doing right now

This is what I'm getting at. My point was in the second paragraph - why do we have 30,000 people there? And if they weren't there, would it really impact us when the North starts acting like a brat? Would they even do it in the first place? And I understand the importance of the Pacific - the 21st century is going to be about the Pacific. But could we not keep an eye on it from San Diego, Seattle, Alaska, Guam, Japan, etc.? We used to have a large presence in the Philippines, and now we don't. Is the world less safe? Are the Philippines less safe? Is that our problem?

[LockheedFix]

OK, let me clarify. I know why we are currently heavily invested in Korea. There are a ton of American's there - got it. I'm not suggesting right now we should be ignoring the North.

This is what I'm getting at. My point was in the second paragraph - why do we have 30,000 people there? And if they weren't there, would it really impact us when the North starts acting like a brat? Would they even do it in the first place? And I understand the importance of the Pacific - the 21st century is going to be about the Pacific. But could we not keep an eye on it from San Diego, Seattle, Alaska, Guam, Japan, etc.? We used to have a large presence in the Philippines, and now we don't. Is the world less safe? Are the Philippines less safe? Is that our problem?

It's my understanding that the Japanese government pays for a significant amount of the costs of the US bases there (housing, base facilities, etc.) Thus, you can keep those troops in Japan for a fraction of what it would cost to have those same personnel on Guam or Hickam, because the US would pick up the whole tab. I'm guessing there is a similar agreement with Sourh Korea since we are providing a huge chunk of their defense.

[afnav]

What is it with stupid fucking Congressmen spouting off to the press about the contents of DIA briefings?

I don't care if it isn't 'classified'. If it was meant to be exploded all over the world, it would have been in a press release.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/04/11/world/asia/koreas-tensions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[pittsdriver]

Maybe it is the Buff driver part of me thinking, but I wish we could just turn NK into a quiet neighborhood and press on.

[Breckey]

It already is

[billy pilgrim]

It already is

Haha - yeah, every day is Earth day in North Korea.

[moosepileit]

[LoneStar]

What is it with stupid ######ing Congressmen spouting off to the press about the contents of DIA briefings?

I don't care if it isn't 'classified'. If it was meant to be exploded all over the world, it would have been in a press release.

https://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

The district that he is located in just so happens to be Colorado Springs and apparently there is some political motivation for him and Missile Defense system development for the folks over at Peterson AFB.

[matmacwc]

Just goes to show you that a politician would not hesitate to endanger your life or throw you into a meat grinder as long as it getting contributions to his campaign. But I'm sure he'll say he supports the troops, and wears an American flag lapel pin, since that's all it takes to convince most of the military that someone is on your side, regardless if they actually are or not.

You might be correct in some instances, but I'm starting to doubt you are in the military.

[Fuzz]

You might be correct in some instances, but I'm starting to doubt you are in the military.

You're just now starting to?

[LoneStar]

Just goes to show you that a politician would not hesitate to endanger your life or throw you into a meat grinder as long as it getting contributions to his campaign. But I'm sure he'll say he supports the troops, and wears an American flag lapel pin, since that's all it takes to convince most of the military that someone is on your side, regardless if they actually are or not.

Yeah....I hope that this is the exception more than the rule when it comes to this kind of thing. I try my best not to paint with too broad a brush when it comes to these kinds of topics.

Edit for debauchery

Edited April 13, 2013 by LoneStar

[pitts2112]

He wouldn't be the first politician who's desire for political renown potentially cost troops their lives. In 1943 Congressman Andrew May was said to be trying to score some political points and reassure the home front public that our submarines were quite safe in the Pacific because the Japanese set their depth charges to explode at too shallow a depth. The inevitable allegedly happened. Admiral Lockwood later stated that he thought May was responsible for the loss of 10 subs and 800 men.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_May_Incident#The_May_Incident

However, there seems to be some doubt whether this actually happened (conflicting accounts).

[BQZip01]

The district that he is located in just so happens to be Colorado Springs and apparently there is some political motivation for him and Missile Defense system development for the folks over at Peterson AFB.

To be fair, it looks like the DIA report had a paragraph mislabeled as unclassified (U) when it shouldn't have been...

...stand by for Classification Markings CBTs and a 3-hour presentation/lecture by the CSAF via teleconference at every installation

[sledy]

To be fair, it looks like the DIA report had a paragraph mislabeled as unclassified (U) when it shouldn't have been...

...stand by for Classification Markings CBTs and a 3-hour presentation/lecture by the CSAF via teleconference at every installation

You mean you didn't have to do your derivative training CBT??

That thing was kind of a bitch.

Sledy

[AnimalMother]

What is it with stupid ######ing Congressmen spouting off to the press about the contents of DIA briefings?

I don't care if it isn't 'classified'. If it was meant to be exploded all over the world, it would have been in a press release.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/04/11/world/asia/koreas-tensions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

They have nuclear weapons!?! Oh, that old chestnut again.

I think this administration is probably just trying to play their cards better than W did in 2003.

[GrndPndr]

What a great opportunity to appease the ChiComms. Perhaps the title of this story should be, "Frightened, Kerry in China to Beg for Help."

Actual Story:

Link: https://www.nytimes.c...l?smid=pl-share

Kerry in China to Seek Help in Korea Crisis

By MICHAEL R. GORDON

Published: April 13, 2013

BEIJING — Secretary of State John Kerry flew to China on Saturday and sought to elicit China’s help in dealing with an increasingly recalcitrant nuclear armed North Korea by saying that American missile defenses could be cut back if the North abandoned its nuclear program.

Mr. Kerry’s trip to China, his first since taking office, is part of an intensive three-day push to try to calm tensions on the Korean Peninsula that have threatened to spiral out of control and rattled world leaders.

In a news conference, Mr. Kerry suggested that the United States could remove some newly enhanced missile defenses in the region, though he did not specify which ones. Any eventual cutback would address Chinese concerns about the buildup of American weapons systems in the region.

After back-to-back meetings between Mr. Kerry and China’s top leaders, the two countries announced that they endorsed the principle of ridding the Korean Peninsula of nuclear weapons, though China did not state publicly what steps it might take to achieve that goal after years of reluctance to crack down on Pyongyang.

“We also joined together in calling on North Korea to refrain from provocations and to abide by international obligations,” Mr. Kerry said.

Worries spiked last week as the South Koreans predicted the North could launch a new missile test any day and after the disclosure that an American intelligence agency concluded for the first time with “moderate confidence” that North Korea learned how to make a nuclear warhead small enough to be delivered by a ballistic missile. The administration has since said that it was premature to conclude that Pyongyang had a fully tested weapons system.

Mr. Kerry’s stance on newly fortified missile defenses appeared to be a selling point to get China, the only country presumed to have any real influence over North Korea, to do what it has long resisted — crack down hard enough that North Korea’s leaders will give up an increasingly sophisticated nuclear program.

In recent weeks, the administration has dispatched two ships outfitted with Aegis antimissile defenses to the region and said it will speed up the positioning of land-based missile defenses on Guam to protect allies in the region after North Korea’s threats to rain missiles on United States troops there and on South Korea.

Many Chinese believe the antimissile systems are part of a containment strategy against them at a time when the United States is pursuing a “pivot” to Asia.

In the past, China has been motivated by a different fear: that any move to destabilize the North would lead to a collapse of the regime and deliver the entire peninsula to the United States’ sphere of influence, possibly bringing American troops in South Korea closer to its border.

On Sunday, Mr. Kerry met with Japanese leaders in Tokyo, where they agreed to keep working toward a nuclear-free North Korea and suggested that direct talks were possible under certain conditions..

North Korea has a clear choice available, Mr. Kerry said, according to The Associated Press, and will find “ready partners” in the United States if it follows through. The Japanese foreign minister, Fumio Kishida, was more specific, saying that Pyongyang must meet its commitment to earlier deals regarding its nuclear and missile programs and on returning kidnapped foreigners.

China’s cooperation is essential to the Obama administration’s strategy of holding a tough line on Pyongyang in an attempt to achieve the type of long-lasting solution on the nuclear program that has eluded a string of United States presidents. Previous administrations responded to North Korean provocations by eventually offering aid to tamp down tensions, only to see the North’s promises to relinquish its nuclear program evaporate once the aid had been delivered.

Mr. Kerry said he explained to China why the United States felt it needed more missile defenses in the region.

“Obviously if the threat disappears — i.e. North Korea denuclearizes — the same imperative does not exist at that point of time for us to have that kind of robust forward leaning posture of defense,” he said. “And it would be our hope in the long run, or better yet in short run, that we can address that.”

Mr. Kerry’s remarks in Beijing are likely to stir concern among staunch advocates of missile defense in the United States, who also see antimissile systems as a means of responding to China’s growing military might. His aides say any changes would require the input of the Pentagon.

Even if China were to take a strong position with its longtime ally, possibly cutting back essential aid and fuel, North Korea might not fall into line. Under its new leader,Kim Jong-un, the North has snubbed China several times, including refusing Chinese entreaties to cancel the recent nuclear test that set off the war of words on the Peninsula.

At the core of the issue is the United States’ inability to draw North Korea into a serious round of nuclear talks. North Korea’s apparent determination to expand its nuclear weapons program and the American demand that it commit up front to eventually relinquishing those arms have raised the question of whether there is even any basis for negotiations. “China has an enormous ability to help make a difference here,” Mr. Kerry said on Friday in Seoul.

The Chinese stance on North Korea has never been a simple one. On one hand, the Chinese prize stability and are eager to avoid a crisis that would spawn a flood of refugees or prompt the United States to shift more forces to the Pacific. On the other hand, that same concern for stability has meant that it is reluctant to take steps that would undermine the North Korean government’s hold on power and eliminate a friendly buffer between Chinese territory and South Korean and American forces.

In Beijing, Mr. Kerry met with the new president,Xi Jinping, Foreign Minister Wang Yi, PremierLi Keqiangand State Councilor Yang Jiechi.

Mr. Yang said at a dinner with Mr. Kerry on Saturday night that China was committed to “the denuclearization process on the Korean Peninsula.” But the Chinese state councilor also stressed that the “issue should be handled and resolved peacefully through dialogue and consultation.”

To encourage the Chinese to deal with the North Korean nuclear problem, Mr. Kerry said that he had shared “very in-depth” information illustrating the danger of how a nuclear North Korea could promote the proliferation of nuclear arms in Asia and the Middle East.

Mr. Kerry said his aim was to find a way to revive the goals of the six-party talks on the North’s nuclear program, which have been stalled since 2009 when North Korea withdrew. The talks have included North and South Korea, China, Russia, Japan and the United States.

He also portrayed cooperation on North Korea as just one element of a “model partnership” the United States hoped to build with China on diplomatic, economic and environmental issues.

Mr. Kerry said there would be additional discussions in the weeks ahead with the Chinese that would involve American intelligence experts including Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The two sides also called on North Korea to refrain from provocations, an apparent allusion to a potential missile test the South Koreans said could happen soon.

Bonnie S. Glaser, a senior adviser for Asia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said China was very frustrated with Mr. Kim and was taking some action, like cracking down on the flow of illicit North Korean funds through Chinese banks. At the same time, she noted, the Chinese fear the United States’ recent actions, including a test flight of B-2 bombers over South Korea, would further incite the North.

The United States “keeps sending more fighter bombers and missile defense ships to the waters of East Asia and carrying out massive military drills with Asian allies in a dramatic display of pre-emptive power,” the state-run news agency Xinhua said Saturday.

Apologies for length (sts), hey it's the NYT.

Amusingly, Kerry is working with Wang and Yang.

FM

[Blue Scourge]

What a great opportunity to appease the ChiComms. Perhaps the title of this story should be, "Frightened, Kerry in China to Beg for Help."

Actual Story:

Link: https://www.nytimes.c...l?smid=pl-share

Kerry in China to Seek Help in Korea Crisis

By MICHAEL R. GORDON

Published: April 13, 2013

Apologies for length (sts), hey it's the NYT.

Amusingly, Kerry is working with Wang and Yang.

FM

Seems about right...

You scratch our back, we blow you.

[Snooter]

I thought about the WTF thread but WTH...

Edited April 25, 2013 by Snooter