FAC'ing in the Bronco

[M2]

As requested, a separate thread...

OK, here's one. Our det (at Chu Lai) had an Australian pilot on exchange, and he discovered that he could get an allocation of Aussie beer from the RAAF supply det at Danang because he was essentially a one-man RAAF det if you were liberal with the rules (which the Aussies were when it came to drinking beer). We took an OV up to Danang for phase and picked up one coming out, then taxiied over to the RAAF ramp on the other side of the field. We checked in and they promptly pulled out an entire pallet (72 cases) of beer! It seems that was the smallest unit of issue for a monthly allotment to a forward detachment of the RAAF. Being a gung ho Lt, and not too up on the differences between weight and cubes, we just started stuffing cases into the aircraft. We got the rear cargo bay loaded with about 60 cases of beer, and then discovered that a beer can was about 2.70 inches in diameter, thus fit nicely down the tubes of the 2.75" rocket launchers (we had 4 new 7-tube LAU-79 pods on the aircraft, each capable of carrying 49 cans of beer (two cases). Eventually, we got about 68 cases of beer in the airplane and pressed on for Chu Lai.

The first hint of trouble was on takeoff roll when I told my companion (in the back seat) to get off the brakes as we started rolling. He wasn't on the brakes, he said. We continued to accelerate slowly, but weren't too concerned because Danang had 11,000 feet of runway. Somewhere around 8,000', and 20 kts below rotation speed, we started to get worried. It was getting really close to the end of the runway and at the end of the overrun was a minefield! As we passed the end of the runway we jerked it off the ground and barely wiggled out over Danang Harbor, airborne...thanks only to the benefits of ground effect... about 5-10 feet off the water. We were accelerating very slowly (like a knot a minute!!) but still not even at a real flying speed. After about two miles, we suddenly realized we couldn't bank (thus turn) without stalling, and there was a big Navy hospital ship about two miles away, directly on our nose. We had no choice (other than ejecting) so we pressed on and hoped for the best. We gained about three more knots before we got to the ship and I was able to change the heading slightly with the rudder and we passed about 50' behind the ship, but still well below the main deck. We bravely waved at people on the ship like we were having fun. We pressed on out over the South China Sea about 20 miles before we had enough airspeed to slowly make a wide right turn around Monkey Mountain (an island off the coast) and headed south. We made it to Chu Lai (about 40 miles south) but never made it above 50'. We had to land opposite direction at Chu Lai because we were afraid we couldn't clear the radio towers off the approach end of the duty runway.

The word eventually got back to my boss via chatter among the maintenance crews who helped us unload the beer. He chewed me out good, then slyly demanded 10 cases of beer or he'd report me to the Squadron at Danang. He got his beer. I later figured that we were about 2000 lbs over max gross weight, and given that it was a day with light wind and about 98 degrees, its a miracle we survived. On the other hand, I figured if I jettisoned the four brand new LAU-79s (which were in tight supply) and centerline fuel tank to survive, the jig was up at Danang and we'd probably be court marshalled anyway, so we decided to either save the beer or die...the AF would have crucified me anyway! The beer was good!! We did, however, haul smaller loads from then on.

War is hell!

[TailWind]

Awe inspiring to the say the least...so 50 ft AGL, hot day and the entire flight's literally flown in ground effect. So how long was the duration of the flight?

[Day Man]

awesome... x 1632

[Steve Davies]

I could listen to stories like that all day long. Thanks for sharing, HiFlyer.

[HiFlyer]

Awe inspiring to the say the least...so 50 ft AGL, hot day and the entire flight's literally flown in ground effect. So how long was the duration of the flight?

Probably about 45 minutes total. Its funny now, but I was scared shitless for most of the flight...essentially a 45 minute slow flight/approach to the stall demo! Boy, was I dumb...I just figured that if the designer put 200 cu ft of space in the back, I could put whatever I wanted there as long as it fit. Jack had been out with his Aussie buddies the night before (basically all night!) and was barely functional...I don't think he ever really grasped the problem!

[HiFlyer]

OK, my son is giving me shit about war stories, so here's an actual combat story...one of the more productive FAC mission of my tour. I was out on the Ho Chi Minh Trail southwest of Danang where we had been working for a week bombing "convoys", which normally meant dropping bombs on the sides of hills to cave in the roads (Interdiction Points, or IDPs) or dumping stuff into the jungle because someone said there was something there. I never saw a thing the whole week except dirt and smoke from Mk82s. I was heading back to Chu Lai after a mission when four F-4s from Phu Cat called up looking for a place to dump their unexpended ordnance. I took them over to a jungle valley just east of the border in Vietnamese territory that was totally uninhabited and ringed with steep hills, making it hard to get into and out of, thus not much good for either side. I threw a mark down to show them the place and told them to "dump it in there", then turned and left for home. A couple of minutes later the flight lead called and suggested I come back. I turned around and the whole valley was exploding. Apparently it was a major ammo dump. It burned and blew up for two days. I bet the bad guys spent months trying to figure out who tipped us to the stash. Better to be lucky than good...

Edited May 29, 2009 by HiFlyer

[MKopack]

I agree with Steve up above - I could read stories like this all day. This stuff is golden.

I do have a question though... Did anybody bitch if your flightsuit wasn't zipped all the way to the top, or you had the wrong color pen in your pocket?

Salute,

Mike

[yzl337]

I agree with Steve up above - I could read stories like this all day. This stuff is golden.

I do have a question though... Did anybody bitch if your flightsuit wasn't zipped all the way to the top, or you had the wrong color pen in your pocket?

Salute,

Mike

Nope, although the leadership was a little more strict up at Danang than ours was living on the Marine airbase at Chu Lai, we all generally rolled up our sleeves, pulled the zippers down to mid-chest, and didn't wear reflective belts. It was a different time, that's for sure.

Edit: Damn, junior's on my box again...

Edited May 28, 2009 by yzl337

[Fud]

I could listen to stories like that all day long. Thanks for sharing, HiFlyer.

2

[brickhistory]

Good stuff, HiFlyer!

Thanks for your service then and the stories/memories now.

Both are very important. And good on your son for getting you to spill the beans!

[TailWind]

OK, my son is giving me shit about war stories, so here's an actual combat story...one of the more productive FAC mission of my tour. I was out on the Ho Chi Minh Trail southwest of Danang where we had been working for a week bombing "convoys", which normally meant dropping bombs on the sides of hills to cave in the roads (Interdiction Points, or IDPs) or dumping stuff into the jungle because someone said there was something there. I never saw a thing the whole week except dirt and smoke from Mk82s. I was heading back to Chu Lai after a mission when four F-4s from Phu Cat called up looking for a place to dump their unexpended ordnance. I took them over to a jungle valley just east of the border in Vietnamese territory that was totally uninhabited and ringed with steep hills, making it hard to get into and out of, thus not much good for either side. I threw a mark down to show them the place and told them to "dump it in there", then turned and left for home. A couple of minutes later the flight lead called and suggested I come back. I turned around and the whole valley was exploding. Apparently it was a major ammo dump. It burned and blew up for two days. I bet the bad guys spent months trying to figure out who tipped us to the stash. Better to be lucky than good...

So were you awarded any air medals for that? That's like winning a grand on a scratch-off or something.

[HiFlyer]

So were you awarded any air medals for that? That's like winning a grand on a scratch-off or something.

The standard 1/20 of an Air Medal. Twenty combat missions for an Air Medal in those days. It was just another mission.

[HuggyU2]

HiFlyer,

You need to step it up a notch on the stories, and start writing abou the U-2. Or are you saving the best for later???

[SUX]

For those interested in more good OV-10 FAC stories "Da Nang Diary" is a great read. It was stories from a guy in the Prairie Fire mission program, which was a program that worked closely with the CIA and other government entities on special missions.

[Wolf424]

These stories are f'n golden. Keep'em coming...

[HiFlyer]

HiFlyer,

You need to step it up a notch on the stories, and start writing abou the U-2. Or are you saving the best for later???

Well, this is a FAC'ing thread, not a recce thread, but I can make one compromise...FAC'ing in the U-2.

In May, 1975, the U-2 was still operating regularly in SE Asia from our base in Thailand. Our normal route took us over Cambodia enroute to our mission tracks. We were aware of the Mayaguez situation and from day one had visually located the ship and been reporting its position to our contacts, although I don't know if this ever got thru the green door because they were saying at first it was unlocated, then finally "found" by F-111s. [We were told by the intel "experts" we couldn't possibly identify the ship from that high up, but when it's the only 800 foot container ship in the area, it wasn't too hard to separate it from the 75 foot fishing boats...its a matter of perspective, and we had the "global" view!!]. As things heated up and actions began to recover the ship, 7th AF was trying to run the show ("airwise", at least) from their HQ at Nakhon Phanom AB (NKP), in northeast Thailand but NKP and the boat were over 400 nm apart and the command post and the aircraft couldn't talk to each other very well. In fact, the fighters couldn't talk to Blue Chip (the 7th AF command post) at all, and HF-equipped aircraft didn't seem to be around much. One of our guys heard some of the chatter on guard and being an old FAC, came up and offered to relay a report to Blue Chip (as much to shut everyone up as to perform a service, as guard was becoming a real distraction with everyone trying to get in contact with everyone else). Blue Chip went crazy and within minutes the U-2 was essentially the FAC (or ABCCC, if you prefer) for the day. At 60K and above, we could still maintain clear UHF contact throughout almost all of SEAsia, especially to other airborne assets which extended the line-of-sight range between aircraft. From then on, when we flew (which was at least one 11 hour sortie every day, frequently two) we became the high altitude FACs, relaying strike orders, BDA, Sitreps, weather conditions, a little visual recce (with binoculars we started carrying) and all the other stuff a FAC does (except for shooting Willie Pete rounds to mark the target).

As an aside, because of this, they installed a UHF repeater (actually two ARC-91 UHF tranceivers) in one of our aircraft (338) the next fall (1977) and sent it to Europe for the annual "REFORGER" exercises, to allow "line-of-sight" contact between US forces all over Germany (the pilots weren't involved this time), but without prior training to understand what is was and what it could do, the various command post controllers who deployed from the US or were already in Germany didn't use the system and it was eventually removed. It was the bad side of the "train the way you will fight" concept. They hadn't trained with such a capability so they didn't have a CONOP or doctrine for this new comm capability when it arrived without much notice.

By the way, the guy flying the first day who got all this started was Capt Al Henderson, who was killed a year later when his U-2 crashed on take-off at another location.

Edited May 29, 2009 by HiFlyer

[Vandal]

As this is a FAC thread, there is a great book out there titled "Naked in DaNang" I can't remember the author off the top of my head but do recall he flew in Cessna MixMasters.

[bagasticks]

As this is a FAC thread, there is a great book out there titled "Naked in DaNang" I can't remember the author off the top of my head but do recall he flew in Cessna MixMasters.

that is a good read. . . another is "Misty" a compilation of stories from dudes with big brass clackers flying Hun Fast FAC's. . .

https://www.mistyvietnam.com/book.html

[HiFlyer]

And the ever popular "The ravens: Pilots of the secret war of Laos"

https://www.amazon.com/ravens-Pilots-secret...2902&sr=1-2

Including many stories of Ron "PF" Rinehart, ex-Raven and U-2 pilot.

[HuggyU2]

Bravo, HiFlyr!

Of no surprise: we're still being used as the "low orbit satellite comm link" for UHF.

As for "The Ravens", what a great book. Weren't Butch Hinkle and Bill Williams both Ravens too?

And I think we had Al Henderson's family out here a few months back to give them tours.

[HiFlyer]

Bravo, HiFlyr!

Of no surprise: we're still being used as the "low orbit satellite comm link" for UHF.

As for "The Ravens", what a great book. Weren't Butch Hinkle and Bill Williams both Ravens too?

And I think we had Al Henderson's family out here a few months back to give them tours.

I believe Bill was, I can't remember if Butch was or not. John Swanson may have been one also (if not, I know he went off to do special stuff near the end of his FAC tour, but maybe not Ravens).

[60 driver]

HiFlyer -

I've been waiting awhile to mention this to a Vietnam era OV-10 pilot.

A few years ago I had a job flying resurrected and significantly modified former USMC D-models on a State Department contract in South America. "Significantly modified" means, among other things, that we had Kevlar floor and sidewall armor, front quarter panel armor, laminate windscreen and side canopy armor, etc.

We pretty frequently came back with several 7.62-ish sized holes in various parts of the aircraft, and I remember thinking this experience was highly overrated even with a lot of armor. I also remember, after getting shot off one target, having the very clear thought that those crazy bastards that flew this thing in Vietnam flew it unarmored, against guys packing 23 and 37mm heat, if not SA-7s. I can only assume the squadron had wheelbarrows outside the chute shop so you guys could haul your gigantic balls out to the aircraft.

P.S. More stories, por favor.

Edited May 31, 2009 by 60 driver

[HiFlyer]

HiFlyer -

I've been waiting awhile to mention this to a Vietnam era OV-10 pilot.

A few years ago I had a job flying resurrected and significantly modified former USMC D-models on a State Department contract in South America. "Significantly modified" means, among other things, that we had Kevlar floor and sidewall armor, front quarter panel armor, laminate windscreen and side canopy armor, etc.

We pretty frequently came back with several 7.62-ish sized holes in various parts of the aircraft, and I remember thinking this experience was highly overrated even with a lot of armor. I also remember, after getting shot off one target, having the very clear thought that those crazy bastards that flew this thing in Vietnam flew it unarmored, against guys packing 23 and 37mm heat, if not SA-7s. I can only assume the squadron had wheelbarrows outside the chute shop so you guys could haul your gigantic balls out to the aircraft.

P.S. More stories, por favor.

Well, I seem to recall that our A-models had an armored "tub" of some sort under the cockpit and up the sides a little that was supposed to protect you from rifle and AK-47-type rounds, but that was all. Our standard ROE was to fly at least 1500' AGL in-country and 6000' AGL over the trail. That was supposed to give you enough help (in terms of reduced bullet impact when it got to you) that small arms in-country and "machine gun rounds" out on the trail wouldn't go thru the "tub". I never got hit in the "tub" so I don't know if it was effective or not. Luckily, I left the country just before the SA-7 arrived (the first ones arrived in late 1970). They sure did change the ROE, thats for sure, although I think the Army UH-1s took the brunt of the initial SA-7 hits rather than the FACs. I'll think about another story. I think about 90% of a typical FAC's sorties were pretty routine if you were smart and followed the rules.

[HiFlyer]

Okay. Another one, a bit longer.....

One evening at Chu Lai late early 1970, we were sitting around beginning our daily “debriefing” in the boss’s hooch. The “debriefing” started when the last mission of the day was over and the gin was pulled from the refrigerator. However, within a few minutes of starting this evening, the phone rang. It was the duty officer at the Americal Div TOC (Tactical Operations Center), who informed us there was a serious TIC (Troops In Contact) situation north of us and wanted to know if we could launch an aircraft and help. By then there wasn’t any of us who hadn’t had a little to drink, but we weren’t too bad off, so the two soberest guys, in this case me and another guy who had been the last flyer of the day, were selected and split for the TOC. It seems that a Cav platoon (the 1st Cav had companies assigned to many of the other straight leg infantry divisions in country to act as scouts) was driving down the rice patties on their way home when they went by a small rise and took some fire. They returned fire and the situation began escalating. The location was about 15 miles north of the provincial capital at Tam Ky, and only about five miles from the 196th Inf Bde HQ base at “Hawk Hill”, out in the middle of a fairly wide open tributary area south of the Hoi An river valley and west of Highway 1. Given the open area and proximity to Hawk Hill, it was a little bit of a surprise to everybody that we’d get such a stiff response. In fact, I suspect the NVA guy who panicked and fired the first shot at the Cav guys didn’t survive long…his boss probably strung up the guy!!!

The Cav guys, mostly riding in their M113 APCs, had backed off a little and started to circle the little rise…a small tree covered spot maybe 200 meters by 300 meters as I recall. That’s when the shit hit the fan and the bad guys opened up with the heavier stuff… first small arms, then RPK light automatic fire, then RPGs, then mortars, then 12.7 mm heavy automatic stuff. It got worse and worse. By that time it was getting pretty dark and the Arty guys started putting flares over the area from Hawk hill, which had 105s and 155s, so that kept visibility from going to zero.

I took off about 2200 with the other guy in the back to act as a safety observer (we rarely flew at night, and when we did we flew dual so someone in the back could watch the dials to make sure we knew which way was up and keep notes while the front-seater concentrated on the fight outside. By the time we got there…about 2230….there was an overcast deck at about 1500’. No moon that night…it was big time dark! The Cav had been reinforced by a few more APCs from Hawk Hill so they had about 20 APCs around two sides of the rise with about 200 grunts spread around. Not an overwhelming force, but with the APCs and their mounted 7.62 guns, enough to keep whoever was there fairly well pinned down. The 196th Bde commander was now calling the shots, and decided (like the Army usually did in such cases) to back off some more and apply liberal amounts of Mk 82s and Arty. [i point this out because the AO to our north was a Marine Regiment area. They would have gathered the troops and tightened the circle. I saw it done several times on my tour. Both were generally successful in solving the problem, but I think the Army took fewer casualties getting to the solution!]

We got the Cav back about 3-400 meters and started checking in Marine A-4s (MAG 12) from Chu Lai about 25 miles to the south. They had heard about the fight too, and had launched a couple of 2-ship A-4 flights armed with 12 Mk82s on each airplane (the Marines rarely waited for I-DASC in Danang to call in such situations…they just took off and called airborne). We briefed them and started putting them in, but by then the cloud deck had lowered to about 1000’AGL and it was hard to get bombs on the target. Their Mk82s were slicks, and the shallow delivery either landed short or long, or skipped off the ground and exploded on the next bounce well past the hill. After two or three runs, I sent them home. They weren’t getting bombs on target, and while they were flying the artillery had to stop, so the bad guys were actually getting a break from our fire rather than getting pounded. Finally, a couple of F-4s showed up with Mk82 high drags and 750 lb napalm cans. I can’t remember if they were Marines (MAG 13) from Chu Lai or AF guys from Danang (the “Gunfighters” from the 388th TFW). I managed to get them all on target, (more or less), but the clouds kept coming down and they finally had to leave. It was probably down to about 800’AGL…way to low to be safely dropping stuff in close proximity to friendlies. Of course, all this time the Cav was pouring automatic fire into the rise, and the bad guys were shooting everything they had at anybody they could find. Tracers were flying and ricocheting everywhere. I was staying off to the east of the battle trying to stay out of the way so the arty could shoot from the north and south, but it finally got to where I couldn’t see well either due to the slant angle and the lowering vis in the evening mist. About 2300 we gave up and went home because we couldn’t get fixed wing air into the site, but the Army still needed eyes in the sky, so the Bde sent an OH-6 down to Chu Lai and when I landed, I got on the "Loach” and went back. I was sitting in the left seat with an M-16 and a bag of white phosphorus smoke grenades, with an Army WO named “Crash” Quintero flying from the right side. [He got the nickname after getting shot down three times in five hours trying to chase down a couple of VC in a tree line near Hawk Hill. None of the OH-6s were badly hurt, but he had to keep breaking off and dumping them into Hawk Hill someplace with oil lines shot out or something similar…but that’s another story]. We spent the next few hours flying around the rise, occasionally darting in so I could throw a WP at an area where we saw a weapon position or a group of bad guys, then either working in Army Cobras or calling in 155s from Hawk Hill to take out the target. We’d occasionally go back to Hawk Hill to brief the Bde S-3 on what was going on and explain where the bad guys were (as well as to gas up the bird). It went on like that until about 0400 the next morning, when it finally started to quiet down. About 0300 my boss sent another guy up to relieve me and later that morning I went back to Chu Lai on a UH-1 from Hawk Hill. The next day the Army went in and the place was essentially deserted…lots of indications, some bodies, a lot of busted up equipment, but nobody still standing. They later told me that it was a forward CP of the NVA 2nd Regiment that operated in our AO. It had a fairly well developed underground area with an ops center, sleeping quarters, dining area, and a “first aid” station. All this was within 5 miles of the 196th Bde HQ and within about a mile of Highway 1, the main coastal highway between Saigon and Hanoi. During the battle they estimated that a hundred or more NVA had escaped to the west a few at a time, but probably over a hundred were killed and many more wounded.

Edited June 1, 2009 by HiFlyer

[DeHavilland]

HiFlyer -

A few years ago I had a job flying resurrected and significantly modified former USMC D-models on a State Department contract in South America. "Significantly modified" means, among other things, that we had Kevlar floor and sidewall armor, front quarter panel armor, laminate windscreen and side canopy armor, etc.

Several years ago, I stopped by the hangar at Patrick where the mods were being done to the OV-10's and there was also a C-27A in the hangar. I got a nice tour of the facilities. How sweet it must have been to fly the Bronco. In Colombia, I saw the locals doing training flights and moving mud with their guns. They had upgraded several of their acft in AZ with upgraded engines, 4 bladed props and some avionics. It made for a very nice COIN platform.