asdf Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 How is the BIT progress going at your base. How many fighter guys are still waiting for IFF/RTU dates? Are the days on BIT decreasing at your base or are guys still waiting up to a year on BIT? How and when do you think the AF will get caught up with all the F-16 and A-10 guys that are waiting up to a year to start IFF?
Duck Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) How is the BIT progress going at your base. How many fighter guys are still waiting for IFF/RTU dates? Are the days on BIT decreasing at your base or are guys still waiting up to a year on BIT? How and when do you think the AF will get caught up with all the F-16 and A-10 guys that are waiting up to a year to start IFF? Talked to one of the last dudes to get F-16s here at Sheppard (08-08?) and he just got his IFF and RTU dates. He starts IFF in September and then RTU shortly after that. I think only 1 or 2 guys Air Force wide got Vipers after him. So he pretty much is one of the last guys on the BIT list for 16 RTU. He talked to AFPC about the status with Vipers and UPT drops and they told him starting FY 10, we would start seeing Viper drops again, but only about 50 or so per year AF wide. No clue on the A-10s, but if F-15Cs and F-15Es don't get overloaded and Vipers come back online, FY10 might be a decent year for fighters and UPT. This is of course all dependent on AFPC, so who knows. Hope this helps! Edited May 30, 2009 by Duck
Chutdoggin Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Talked to one of the last dudes to get F-16s here at Sheppard (08-08?) and he just got his IFF and RTU dates. He starts IFF in September and then RTU shortly after that. I think only 1 or 2 guys Air Force wide got Vipers after him. So he pretty much is one of the last guys on the BIT list for 16 RTU. He talked to AFPC about the status with Vipers and UPT drops and they told him starting FY 10, we would start seeing Viper drops again, but only about 50 or so per year AF wide. No clue on the A-10s, but if F-15Cs and F-15Es don't get overloaded and Vipers come back online, FY10 might be a decent year for fighters and UPT. This is of course all dependent on AFPC, so who knows. Hope this helps! That is most certainly not standard - There is a Bit student here at sheppard who graduated in May of last year and still has no IFF or RTU dates. There seems to be no rhyme or reason (apparent to us anway) as to who gets dates and when. My only hope right now is that these poor guys are going sooner than they think and just dont know it yet because dates for the next FY haven't been released yet. (Sans FAIPS, they are in a completly different pool) edit - also, the 09-01 Guy has been told not to expect dates for quite awhile... he is headed off to ASBC in the very near future Edited May 30, 2009 by Chutdoggin
donkey Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Talked to one of the last dudes to get F-16s here at Sheppard (08-08?) and he just got his IFF and RTU dates. He starts IFF in September and then RTU shortly after that. I think only 1 or 2 guys Air Force wide got Vipers after him. So he pretty much is one of the last guys on the BIT list for 16 RTU. He talked to AFPC about the status with Vipers and UPT drops and they told him starting FY 10, we would start seeing Viper drops again, but only about 50 or so per year AF wide. No clue on the A-10s, but if F-15Cs and F-15Es don't get overloaded and Vipers come back online, FY10 might be a decent year for fighters and UPT. This is of course all dependent on AFPC, so who knows. Hope this helps! Anybody know off the top of their head how many we were seeing the last year or two before they shut the pipe down?
Chutdoggin Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 If these numbers are wrong its your own fault - Starting at the beginning of the assignment night thread and going up to SPS 08-03 (I Got Tired of Counting) I marked down 131 F-16's. I tried not to count Guard guys where I could tell but this is definitely not scientific. Still, it is a pretty big number and I think we can all agree it has been drastically reduced. I wrote down a few classes with drops of 5, 6, or 7 Vipers (excuse me, "fighting falcons") a piece and that obviously isn't on the horizon for any of the classes at this point in time.
Duck Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 If these numbers are wrong its your own fault - Starting at the beginning of the assignment night thread and going up to SPS 08-03 (I Got Tired of Counting) I marked down 131 F-16's. I tried not to count Guard guys where I could tell but this is definitely not scientific. Still, it is a pretty big number and I think we can all agree it has been drastically reduced. I wrote down a few classes with drops of 5, 6, or 7 Vipers (excuse me, "fighting falcons") a piece and that obviously isn't on the horizon for any of the classes at this point in time. I could see about 2 per class becoming the standard when they supposedly open the pipe up later this year.
Riebs Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Talked to one of the last dudes to get F-16s here at Sheppard (08-08?) and he just got his IFF and RTU dates. He starts IFF in September and then RTU shortly after that. I think only 1 or 2 guys Air Force wide got Vipers after him. So he pretty much is one of the last guys on the BIT list for 16 RTU. He talked to AFPC about the status with Vipers and UPT drops and they told him starting FY 10, we would start seeing Viper drops again, but only about 50 or so per year AF wide. No clue on the A-10s, but if F-15Cs and F-15Es don't get overloaded and Vipers come back online, FY10 might be a decent year for fighters and UPT. This is of course all dependent on AFPC, so who knows. Hope this helps! Well this is music to my ears. How does the 35 fall into this equation?
Guest Cap-10 Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Well this is music to my ears. How does the 35 fall into this equation? If you are talking the F-35, it doesn't! They just announced (approx 2 months ago ish) the intial cadre of 10 instructors. The initial message that went out for the volunteers for said cadre, stated to expect initial training sometime in FY10. The F-35 won't be dropped to UPT for a quite some time. Cheers, Cap-10
brabus Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) One of our patches here is one of the initial 10. He doesn't even go to Eglin for another year or so. He said the plan right now is to start taking fighter dudes on the VML around early-mid 2014. He thinks it'll be at least a couple years of VML dudes before they start dropping them at UPT. So in his opinion, with no setbacks (and there will be), F-35s won't start dropping at UPT bases until 2016 or so. You can't plan anything more than 2 months down the road when it comes to the AF, but his opinion on the subjects holds more weight than any of ours, so I'd say it sounds pretty logical. So anyone with future hopes of flying the 35 should do their best and hope you get a viper or hog out of UPT (those will be the dudes who start going to the 35 at first...supposedly). I think the F-35 is envisioned to also replace the Strike Eagle, but that sounds very far down the road. Maybe Cap-10 or Toro can speak more to that. Edited May 30, 2009 by brabus
Wolf424 Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Anybody know off the top of their head how many we were seeing the last year or two before they shut the pipe down? I got to Vance last summer, and I only saw two F-16s drop on assignment night, and they were both with a F-22 follow on. One FAIP got an F-16 in November, but that was it. Edit: Rog, misred, disregard Edited May 30, 2009 by TheWolf424
MCO Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 I got to Vance last summer, and I only saw two F-16s drop on assignment night, and they were both with a F-22 follow on. One FAIP got an F-16 in November, but that was it. Right, thats because they shut the pipeline down. He is asking what the drops were like before they shut the pipeline down. I don't know the numbers, but I know there were *relatively* a lot. It was the norm to see multiple F-16's every drop.
brabus Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 My class drop had 4 vipers in it. It was pretty standard to see 2-4 vipers every drop. That was right before the shit hit the fan and BIT became the standard for all of us.
asdf Posted May 31, 2009 Author Posted May 31, 2009 I guess what I am wondering is how many fighter guys are still waiting at your base. I assume sheppard has the most... which I believe is about 10-15 people. What about the other bases?
BQZip01 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 I'm not trying to push you guys out of your dream, but can you put in requests to switch over to other airframes?
brabus Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 I'm not trying to push you guys out of your dream, but can you put in requests to switch over to other airframes? Several guys have done that. One even gave up his A-10 for a Pred.
brickhistory Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 I rarely butt into pilot-specific threads, so I hope I'm cut some slack for asking an uneducated question on this one: What to the guys stacked up waiting for an IFF/RTU slot do during their substantial from the sounds of it break in training? Do they get any flying? Will/does that break from currency/regular flying have an impact in performance at IFF/RTU? Would it make fiscal/manning sense to make 'em FAIPs for the duration if the break is 8 months to a year or more? Or would that just clog up the UPT IP pipeline? No dog in the fight, just curious. A UTFSF brought no answers - but then I suck at defining the parameters...
TAMInated Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Several guys have done that. One even gave up his A-10 for a Pred. I'll take his A-10...
brabus Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 What to the guys stacked up waiting for an IFF/RTU slot do during their substantial from the sounds of it break in training? Do they get any flying? Will/does that break from currency/regular flying have an impact in performance at IFF/RTU? Would it make fiscal/manning sense to make 'em FAIPs for the duration if the break is 8 months to a year or more? Or would that just clog up the UPT IP pipeline? No dog in the fight, just curious. A UTFSF brought no answers - but then I suck at defining the parameters... It depends on the base. I was at Vance and it depended on the week, but you might fly once or you might fly 3-4 times (on a really good week). Sometimes they were front seat rides where you did most or all of the flying, sometimes they were backseat where you didn't touch the stick (sts) once...which made those rides 100% waste of time. Talking to my bros who were at Sheppard, sounds like they got screwed (sts) and hardly ever got to fly, and it would be a miracle if they actually got a front seat sortie. Some guys just took shitloads of leave and traveled, some guys worked on masters, etc. I'll take his A-10... No kidding. IMO, that's the dumbest decision that guy will ever make in his life. It sucks that someone like that takes an A-10 slot, then just throws it away while other dudes would kill for that slot, but now don't get a shot at it.
Chutdoggin Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 I rarely butt into pilot-specific threads, so I hope I'm cut some slack for asking an uneducated question on this one: What to the guys stacked up waiting for an IFF/RTU slot do during their substantial from the sounds of it break in training? Do they get any flying? Will/does that break from currency/regular flying have an impact in performance at IFF/RTU? Would it make fiscal/manning sense to make 'em FAIPs for the duration if the break is 8 months to a year or more? Or would that just clog up the UPT IP pipeline? No dog in the fight, just curious. A UTFSF brought no answers - but then I suck at defining the parameters... 1.) We are assigned random casual jobs around the squadrons, from wing adjutant all the way down to flight scheduler 2.) There is a break in training program that requires us to fly specific amounts of time, however, for most guys on the program this means one sandbag (dont have to fly) and one sim every 14 days. It is hardly enough to keep you from sucking when you go fly. 3.) I have asked the RTU question specifically and the post IFF BIT Period is usually a lot smaller. Supposedly it doesnt have too terribly much of an impact on a student by the time he makes it to his FTU. 4.) Believe me, many times we have asked for guys to go tdy to the mc-12, faip, or some other better tdy assignment. Big Blue is still kind of stuck on the fact that you owe them three years after you finish Pilot Instructor Training and we cant get everyone in agreement on some of the other options. So you're right, it doesnt make all that much sense and we dont like it one bit. I guess you just gotta remember that we dont see what the higher ups see (and common sense doesnt always prevail... technically we aren't really even supposed to exist as a problem). If this is what I have to endure to get my AB T/O though I'm cool with it - i think its worth it in the end. Cheers
brabus Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 If this is what I have to endure to get my AB T/O though I'm cool with it - i think its worth it in the end. Completely agree. Waiting over a year to start IFF and then go to RTU sucked, but I'm so damn glad I waited. Anyone who even considers giving up their fighter b/c of a wait is making a big mistake (just IMO of course). It sucks sitting around a UPT base, but any wait will be worth it once you get to Luke, DM, etc.
TailWind Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 What's BIT like for Guard/Reserve guys? Are they hanging around like the AD guys too waiting to go to IFF and their FTU?
brabus Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 What's BIT like for Guard/Reserve guys? Non-existent. The state the guard unit is from pays the AF to put a dude through UPT-IFF-RTU. So, their slots are allocated separately from AD slots. Seems like every guard guy here at Luke starts here still a 2LT. The guard guy in my class hasn't even done any survival yet b/c he had very little break between UPT, IFF and RTU.
Danger41 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 What is the BIT like for dudes going to the Bone and the Buff? I know it's pretty bad all across the board for fighter dudes but I hadn't heard much in terms of bomber guys.
TailWind Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Non-existent. The state the guard unit is from pays the AF to put a dude through UPT-IFF-RTU. So, their slots are allocated separately from AD slots. Seems like every guard guy here at Luke starts here still a 2LT. The guard guy in my class hasn't even done any survival yet b/c he had very little break between UPT, IFF and RTU. Wow AD guys are gettin the shaft big time. Guess that goes two ways...guard/reserve guys get in their fighter real quick, but under the circumstances who knows how much longer their units are still gonna be flying them.
whis Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 To answer the original question of "how the BIT was going?"... I was one of or maybe even the last Viper drop Air Force wide. My drop was July 08 and I graduated Aug 08. I am three weeks into IFF. My B-Course start date is 11 September 09. Public math is 13 months Grad to B-course. Not as bad as some, but about average. IMHO, Vipers should start dropping again in Jul-Aug timeframe. But that makes sense... The BIT at Laughlin for Vipers is officially empty (as of about 3 weeks ago). There are a few Eagle (both C and E models) and A-10 dudes waiting for their IFF to begin, but most are going to be in IFF by end of July.
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