Break in Training

[Chutdoggin]

To answer the original question of "how the BIT was going?"...

I was one of or maybe even the last Viper drop Air Force wide. My drop was July 08 and I graduated Aug 08.

I am three weeks into IFF. My B-Course start date is 11 September 09. Public math is 13 months Grad to B-course. Not as bad as some, but about average.

IMHO, Vipers should start dropping again in Jul-Aug timeframe. But that makes sense...

The BIT at Laughlin for Vipers is officially empty (as of about 3 weeks ago). There are a few Eagle (both C and E models) and A-10 dudes waiting for their IFF to begin, but most are going to be in IFF by end of July.

Hmm, Thats weird, I thought I distinctly remember referencing earlier in this thread the Viper guy in 09-01 who got his F-16 in December. . .

Edited June 1, 2009 by Chutdoggin

[Duck]

In the past year (since 08-05) here at Sheppard, there have only been two Vipers dropped to AD at ENJJPT. I think 08-05 graduated in June sometime.

[brabus]

IMHO, Vipers should start dropping again in Jul-Aug timeframe. But that makes sense...

With the rate at which Viper squadrons are going away, I would think Viper UPT drops will never get back to what they were. I have a feeling we'll continue to see a drought for a while longer until AFPC realizes the "not enough fighter pilot" shit storm they're heading towards. Maybe it'll be like the late 90s all over again. Who knows.

[TailWind]

With the rate at which Viper squadrons are going away, I would think Viper UPT drops will never get back to what they were. I have a feeling we'll continue to see a drought for a while longer until AFPC realizes the "not enough fighter pilot" shit storm they're heading towards. Maybe it'll be like the late 90s all over again. Who knows.

I dunno man, congress is putting up alot of resistance to retiring those ~250 or so fighters and talking about even buying some more 16's/15's replace the one's who've reached the entire of their service length until the 35's come online and 22's reach full capacity.

[spit21fire]

I dunno man, congress is putting up alot of resistance to retiring those ~250 or so fighters and talking about even buying some more 16's/15's replace the one's who've reached the entire of their service length until the 35's come online and 22's reach full capacity.

Do you have any references to where you heard that congress is putting up resistance to this retirement? I'd love to read about it if you do.

[brabus]

I dunno man, congress is putting up alot of resistance to retiring those ~250 or so fighters and talking about even buying some more 16's/15's replace the one's who've reached the entire of their service length until the 35's come online and 22's reach full capacity.

Sounds like a rumor started at a UPT base. I'm just saying all the word going around here is exactly the opposite of what you said. They're not closing multiple Viper squadrons and sending Vipers to the boneyard, just to buy some more vipers when they can just wait 4 yrs or so for the 35 to be operational. I'd love to be completely wrong and have what you said happen, but I'm just stating reality as it stands right now.

Edited June 3, 2009 by brabus

[TailWind]

Sounds like a rumor started at a UPT base. I'm just saying all the word going around here is exactly the opposite of what you said. They're not closing multiple Viper squadrons and sending Vipers to the boneyard, just to buy some more vipers when they can just wait 4 yrs or so for the 35 to be operational. I'd love to be completely wrong and have what you said happen, but I'm just stating reality as it stands right now.

I don't wanna start any rumors to get anyone's hopes up. I'm sure what you're hearing around Luke is way more prudent than what I've read...I'm not at a UPT base either. There were a few articles last week about it on the wantscheck newsfeed, but the site doesn't let you scroll through old articles. The AF Times touched on a contingent to buy legacy fighters to ease the transition. Not sure if it was posted, most of you probably read it but in case you didn't here it is...

Skepticism on Capitol Hill

Despite the savings and Schwartz’s argument for a more formidable fighter force, some in Congress who have seen the briefing believe the Air Force shouldn’t put all its eggs in the JSF basket.

“We’re putting an awful lot of faith in the program delivering on time that hasn’t accrued a lot of reason to give it to date,” Rep. John McHugh, R-N.Y., ranking member on the House Armed Services Committee, said at a May 19 hearing attended by Schwartz and Donley.

Schwartz told the committee that the restructuring would “free up resources, take some risk, admittedly, in order to position ourselves to get on that manageable ramp for F-35 so that we, again, can manage fleet age, get F-35 into the fleet before the F-16s begin to [retire] in large numbers.”

A contingent led by Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., and Rep. Frank LoBiondo, R-N.J., is pushing for the service to purchase F-15s or F-16s to ease the transition into the F-35 program. The congressional members haven’t put forth the number of legacy fighters they want to see.

LoBiondo addressed specifically the massive retirements of Air National Guard aircraft by 2020. The Guard’s aging F-15s and F-16s have patrolled the skies over and around cities since the 2001 terrorist attacks. Decommissioning the 495 F-16s is scheduled to start in two years, when the oldest ones turn 30, and wrap up by 2026.

“We’ve heard repeatedly, ‘Everything will be fine, we just need some more time,’” LoBiondo said at the hearing. “Well, I'm not feeling so good about that answer, don’t feel as good today as I did last week, and each day that goes by, I think we have a problem.”

The Air Force’s 2010 budget includes no money for new F-15s or F-16s, although the Government Accountability Office warns that buying only F-35s will probably create a fighter gap.

“Procuring large numbers of production jets while still working to deliver test jets and mature manufacturing processes does not seem prudent, and looming plans to accelerate procurement will be difficult,” said a report by the GAO released in March.

In another report released May 20, the GAO estimated F-35 development could face cost overruns of $2.4 billion to $7.4 billion and additional testing could be delayed by one to three years.

The day before the report’s release, at the hearing, Donley told lawmakers that keeping the F-35 on time and on budget would be a challenge.

Committee Chairman Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., wasn’t shy about letting Schwartz and Donley know that he doesn’t like cutting the fighters to pay for other Air Force needs.

“That seems to be a serious balancing act,” he said.

Defense analyst Philip Coyle, though, guesses the Air Force doesn’t have much choice but to follow Gates’ lead on the F-35 — and risk lost fighter capability in the acceleration process.

“Secretary Gates has them scared to death, doesn’t he?” Coyle, with the Center for Defense Information, asked rhetorically.

[Kelvin]

Well, that gives pointy-nose wishfuls like myself something to hope for... Not that its worth much...

[czecksikhs]

Kinda like the plan to re-wingbox the E's and H1's. I'll believe it when I see it (and I don't want to).

[Insubordinate & Churlish]

What's BIT like for Guard/Reserve guys? Are they hanging around like the AD guys too waiting to go to IFF and their FTU?

Non-existent. The state the guard unit is from pays the AF to put a dude through UPT-IFF-RTU. So, their slots are allocated separately from AD slots. Seems like every guard guy here at Luke starts here still a 2LT. The guard guy in my class hasn't even done any survival yet b/c he had very little break between UPT, IFF and RTU.

Is this true for all Guard airframes? And how about from AMS-IFS-UPT?

[mp5g]

Is this true for all Guard airframes? And how about from AMS-IFS-UPT?

More than likely. Guard bureau does not want to spend money paying someone to just sit around and wait for class dates, so turn time between courses is generally very small. I went to AMS in November, SERE in January, IFS in February, Water Survival in April, and UPT in May.

That being said, if you didn't happen to get courses back to back, then you are more likely to go on and off orders until you get a stretch where they will just keep you on.