New Fitness Rules

[panchbarnes]

The whole thing was nothing but a typical AF good idea fairy experiment that does more bad than good.  The Lackland GS-13 who invented the program was able to persuade the GOs to go along with this thing that morphed into a promotion and force shaping discriminator.  Let's not forget the birth of the FACs who are made up of unqualified GS-6s that had more power over an airman's career based on how tight they want to pull on the tape or the visual inspection of the elbow angles.  

It was never about health, everything we do in the Air Force is about promotion first and foremost.  How can I get promoted from this?

Edited December 8, 2020 by panchbarnes

[panchbarnes]

Different Service, same shit show.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/12/08/defense-bill-would-pause-army-combat-fitness-test-roll-out-pending-an-independent-study/

 

[di1630]

With 90%+ accuracy, I bet anyone on this board could walk into an AF sq and pick out the unhealthy/hi risk of PT failure.

We know the difference between the short stalky athletic dude that has the same waist as the the potbelly middle-aged NCO who hasn’t seen his d-ck in the last decade.

We know the people in flight suits who are “bingo Velcro” and timing out.

This is all just a metric for our leadership to have a leg up stand on the undeployable fatties who sadly just have loopholed the system anyhow.

I broke 2x toes a while back and stood in line with all the other waivered gimps who were all a bunch of fat-bodies looking to not fail on account of their hung toenail.

Yeah there is the occasional fit pilot who fails but like I said...90%+accuracy we could predict just by looking


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[slackline]

I agree the waist measurement for the PT test is stupid, but is it really too much to ask that members of a military force look professional, and maybe, just maybe like they take care of themselves?  I'm sure most of the talk on here about fit and fat is facetious, but I'm sure there's one or two on here that truly believe that.  

You can tie performance in the jet directly to fitness.  If a fatty is an amazing pilot, he'd be that much better if he were more healthy.  PT test is a yearly nuisance, being fit should be a responsibility you take almost as seriously as being proficient in the jet.  Maybe, slightly less important, but you get the point. https://taskandpurpose.com/mandatory-fun/air-force-f35-pilot-life/ More generically, it's not just for the meat eaters https://hartzellprop.com/fit-for-flight-the-benefits-of-exercise-for-pilots/. Just because an ops guy can walk in, kill himself in a PT test to beat other careers in the AF doesn't mean they're taking care of themselves. 

If you think you should be able to be a fatty in a military uniform, I think you should check yourself.  Not a PC view?  Oh well, hit the gym.  

 

Oh, and for anyone keeping score, the Navy has more fatties than the AF.  https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/09/03/navy-fattest-obesity-rates-across-services.html

 

***Slight hijack***  Brabus' comment about having "mental strength and a desire to win"...that about "90% of the non-ops people don't have" is stupid and wrong-headed unless it was sarcasm I didn't pick up on.  Based on a ton of other comments on baseops, it didn't seem like a stretch to think that's how he feels about everyone not in ops.  It's why pilots have a bad name.  I tell my super-smart high school senior frequently, "it's okay to be the smartest kid in the room, just stop acting like it because nobody likes that guy!" What's the old saying, you get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar.  I know this is the "safe space" for a lot of you, but I sure hope that attitude doesn't manifest itself with the non-ops people you interact with on the daily.  Having been in leadership positions in a flying ops world and a training world, this is one of the biggest complaints I heard about pilots, so while not super relevant to the discussion I thought I'd throw out a bit of unrequested advice.  ***hijack over***

[Bigred]

22 minutes ago, slackline said:

You can tie performance in the jet directly to fitness.  If a fatty is an amazing pilot, he'd be that much better if he were more healthy.  

I’ve actually heard from multiple sources, both doctors/aviation physiologists, and fighter types, that the short, stocky, somewhat overweight dude can pull and handle g force better than the Uber fit dude. 

[Homestar]

Makes me laugh when I hear that genetics is the reason for your 40 inch waist....at 5’9”.

No, you’re just fat. 

[MCO]

34 minutes ago, slackline said:

I agree the waist measurement for the PT test is stupid, but is it really too much to ask that members of a military force look professional, and maybe, just maybe like they take care of themselves?  I'm sure most of the talk on here about fit and fat is facetious, but I'm sure there's one or two on here that truly believe that.  

You can tie performance in the jet directly to fitness.  If a fatty is an amazing pilot, he'd be that much better if he were more healthy.  PT test is a yearly nuisance, being fit should be a responsibility you take almost as seriously as being proficient in the jet.  Maybe, slightly less important, but you get the point. https://taskandpurpose.com/mandatory-fun/air-force-f35-pilot-life/ More generically, it's not just for the meat eaters https://hartzellprop.com/fit-for-flight-the-benefits-of-exercise-for-pilots/. Just because an ops guy can walk in, kill himself in a PT test to beat other careers in the AF doesn't mean they're taking care of themselves. 

If you think you should be able to be a fatty in a military uniform, I think you should check yourself.  Not a PC view?  Oh well, hit the gym.  

 

Oh, and for anyone keeping score, the Navy has more fatties than the AF.  https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/09/03/navy-fattest-obesity-rates-across-services.html

 

***Slight hijack***  Brabus' comment about having "mental strength and a desire to win"...that about "90% of the non-ops people don't have" is stupid and wrong-headed unless it was sarcasm I didn't pick up on.  Based on a ton of other comments on baseops, it didn't seem like a stretch to think that's how he feels about everyone not in ops.  It's why pilots have a bad name.  I tell my super-smart high school senior frequently, "it's okay to be the smartest kid in the room, just stop acting like it because nobody likes that guy!" What's the old saying, you get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar.  I know this is the "safe space" for a lot of you, but I sure hope that attitude doesn't manifest itself with the non-ops people you interact with on the daily.  Having been in leadership positions in a flying ops world and a training world, this is one of the biggest complaints I heard about pilots, so while not super relevant to the discussion I thought I'd throw out a bit of unrequested advice.  ***hijack over***

I don’t agree completely with everything you wrote but great post. 
 

I’d say we aren’t the Army or Marines. We die if we don’t know how to do our jobs, not if we can’t beat the enemy into submission. For the most part. That said we should at least be in some kind of shape. We are professionals in the military and we deploy. I’m amazed at how many people I know who refuse to ever work out or go on a run get themselves on some sort of profile.

As far as your points about pilots, that’s easy. Don’t be a Dick. Hard for some people but you’d be surprised how far that can get you even without changing your opinions, by just understanding other people’s point of view and not being a Dick. That said, don’t let people run you over either.

Edited December 8, 2020 by MCO

[slackline]

15 minutes ago, Bigred said:

I’ve actually heard from multiple sources, both doctors/aviation physiologists, and fighter types, that the short, stocky, somewhat overweight dude can pull and handle g force better than the Uber fit dude. 

Yeah, that's why I just said more healthy/fit, not winner of the Crossfit Games...

[dream big]

8 hours ago, slackline said:

I agree the waist measurement for the PT test is stupid, but is it really too much to ask that members of a military force look professional, and maybe, just maybe like they take care of themselves?  I'm sure most of the talk on here about fit and fat is facetious, but I'm sure there's one or two on here that truly believe that.  

You can tie performance in the jet directly to fitness.  If a fatty is an amazing pilot, he'd be that much better if he were more healthy.  PT test is a yearly nuisance, being fit should be a responsibility you take almost as seriously as being proficient in the jet.  Maybe, slightly less important, but you get the point. https://taskandpurpose.com/mandatory-fun/air-force-f35-pilot-life/ More generically, it's not just for the meat eaters https://hartzellprop.com/fit-for-flight-the-benefits-of-exercise-for-pilots/. Just because an ops guy can walk in, kill himself in a PT test to beat other careers in the AF doesn't mean they're taking care of themselves. 

If you think you should be able to be a fatty in a military uniform, I think you should check yourself.  Not a PC view?  Oh well, hit the gym.  

 

Oh, and for anyone keeping score, the Navy has more fatties than the AF.  https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/09/03/navy-fattest-obesity-rates-across-services.html

 

***Slight hijack***  Brabus' comment about having "mental strength and a desire to win"...that about "90% of the non-ops people don't have" is stupid and wrong-headed unless it was sarcasm I didn't pick up on.  Based on a ton of other comments on baseops, it didn't seem like a stretch to think that's how he feels about everyone not in ops.  It's why pilots have a bad name.  I tell my super-smart high school senior frequently, "it's okay to be the smartest kid in the room, just stop acting like it because nobody likes that guy!" What's the old saying, you get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar.  I know this is the "safe space" for a lot of you, but I sure hope that attitude doesn't manifest itself with the non-ops people you interact with on the daily.  Having been in leadership positions in a flying ops world and a training world, this is one of the biggest complaints I heard about pilots, so while not super relevant to the discussion I thought I'd throw out a bit of unrequested advice.  ***hijack over***

Sure dude, if it weren’t for those asshole fighter pilots hurting everyone’s feelings, they would be able to process PCS vouchers in time, or ensure the DFAC was open for those night lines and mid shift maintainers, or not screw up PCS orders so bad, or screw up people’s pay, or volunteer at the CGOC while their flight can’t manifest cargo worth their lives.  There is a reason for Brabus’s scorn, and while much much more than 10% of our non-ops brethren are worth their weight in gold, the nonner mindset is a thing, and it has nothing to do with AFSC or how close to the flightline you work. 

[HuggyU2]

8 hours ago, Bigred said:

I’ve actually heard from multiple sources, both doctors/aviation physiologists, and fighter types, that the short, stocky, somewhat overweight dude can pull and handle g force better than the Uber fit dude. 

True or not, that's pretty much been USAF lore since at least the early 80's (when I first heard it).  

[Bigred]

6 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

True or not, that's pretty much been USAF lore since at least the early 80's (when I first heard it).  

Yeah, I've always wondered if it was lore or if anyone has actually looked into it. 

 

[slackline]

Sure dude, if it weren’t for those asshole fighter pilots hurting everyone’s feelings, they would be able to process PCS vouchers in time, or ensure the DFAC was open for those night lines and mid shift maintainers, or not screw up PCS orders so bad, or screw up people’s pay, or volunteer at the CGOC while their flight can’t manifest cargo worth their lives.  There is a reason for Brabus’s scorn, and while much much more than 10% of our non-ops brethren are worth their weight in gold, the nonner mindset is a thing, and it has nothing to do with AFSC or how close to the flightline you work. 

You clearly understood the intent of the post...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Guardian]

Not too many people understand you SLaCK. You’re all over the place, very emotional, and quick to judgment over assumptions.

[SurelySerious]

At least one wing commander has it all figured out.

Quote

...during this pause in official testing, I’m directing all members of the Wing to take a practice fitness test every month (January, February, and March) prior to the resumption of official testing. Practice tests administration will be managed by unit commanders...

Edited December 9, 2020 by SurelySerious

[arg]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:26 PM, Homestar said:

Makes me laugh when I hear that genetics is the reason for your 40 inch waist....at 5’9”.

No, you’re just fat. 

Laugh all you want but genetics has almost everything to do with it. Notice I said almost.

[Homestar]

30 minutes ago, arg said:

Laugh all you want but genetics has almost everything to do with it. Notice I said almost.

And diet. And beer. But nobody wants to change that. 

[SocialD]

It's always good fun to see two early-20s airmen, with a sub-30 inch waist, stagger across the finish line with 5 seconds to spare on their min time, fall down and puke all over track.  Meanwhile, 5 of us "unfit" old guys (37-44 year olds, without the 30 inch waist) that have been done for ~2 minutes, wonder where do we find such men.  True story...last PT test.     

[arg]

3 hours ago, Homestar said:

And diet. And beer. But nobody wants to change that. 

Are you one of those guys that think every human beings body responds the same way to diet and exercise?

[HuggyU2]

3 hours ago, SocialD said:

It's always good fun to see two early-20s airmen, with a sub-30 inch waist, stagger across the finish line with 5 seconds to spare on their min time, fall down and puke all over track.  Meanwhile, 5 of us "unfit" old guys (37-44 year olds, without the 30 inch waist) that have been done for ~2 minutes, wonder where do we find such men.  True story...last PT test.     

I've posted this before but my last PT test was a month before I turned 49 or 50.  One of my best friends was in the group and he was 47.  There was a Captain around 31 and 6 enlisted from around 20-28.  

I figured I'd get crushed since I'm not Joe Workout.  As it turns out, I ran the 1.5 in about 10:20, with my bud about a 10:40.  The last 2-3 were simply pathetic.  

Of course,  being the sensitive guys we are (you U-2 guys know the other person... Dingle), we heckled everyone with jeers of "Old guys rule!!".  

Frankly, though, it was sad to see.  Our youth are not in really good shape.  

(epilogue:  after we were done, we went to the bar and drank.  Old guys do rule...)

Edited December 10, 2020 by HuggyU2

[arg]

27 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

I've posted this before but my last PT test was a month before I turned 49 or 50.  One of my best friends was in the group and he was 47.  There was a Captain around 31 and 6 enlisted from around 20-28.  

I figured I'd get crushed since I'm not Joe Workout.  As it turns out, I ran the 1.5 in about 10:20, with my bud about a 10:40.  The last 2-3 were simply pathetic.  

Of course,  being the sensitive guys we are (you U-2 guys know the other person... Dingle), we heckled everyone with jeers of "Old guys rule!!".  

Frankly, though, it was sad to see.  Our youth are not in really good shape.  

(epilogue:  after we were done, we went to the bar and drank.  Old guys do rule...)

Maybe they thought good enough is good enough.

[Sua Sponte]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:17 PM, Bigred said:

I’ve actually heard from multiple sources, both doctors/aviation physiologists, and fighter types, that the short, stocky, somewhat overweight dude can pull and handle g force better than the Uber fit dude. 

That's me and 9G's in a Viper, though sucked, wasn't bad. I was told the tall and skinny dudes don't handle g-forces that well.

[Sua Sponte]

4 hours ago, SocialD said:

It's always good fun to see two early-20s airmen, with a sub-30 inch waist, stagger across the finish line with 5 seconds to spare on their min time, fall down and puke all over track.  Meanwhile, 5 of us "unfit" old guys (37-44 year olds, without the 30 inch waist) that have been done for ~2 minutes, wonder where do we find such men.  True story...last PT test.     

I always enjoyed the skinny/fast young kids that couldn't do pushups or situps, while us "Team Husky" people hit our maxes with no problem.

[HuggyU2]

25 minutes ago, arg said:

Maybe they thought good enough is good enough.

Well that's the problem, now isn't it?

Edited December 10, 2020 by HuggyU2

[Sprkt69]

15 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Well that's the problem, now isn't it?

Easy now, slackline may try to hijack the thread again 

[pawnman]

16 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Well that's the problem, now isn't it?

The standard is the standard.  We've all bitched about commanders trying to add extra items for considering people for WIC, in-res IDE, etc.