New Fitness Rules

[Homestar]

The Air Force always over thinks things. Marines just say “lift heavy stuff and run fast.”

[Bigred]

Interval training, sets of half mile and mile repeats. I’m almost 40 and weigh 220 and I run a sub 10 minute 1.5 mile. 
 

I also had my VO2 tested and it was average to slightly above. It helps, but putting in the correct training helps even more. 

[Fausto]

38 minutes ago, Bigred said:

Interval training, sets of half mile and mile repeats. I’m almost 40 and weigh 220 and I run a sub 10 minute 1.5 mile. 
 

I also had my VO2 tested and it was average to slightly above. It helps, but putting in the correct training helps even more. 

 

I guess that's the rub with some who train for other sports.  You're right that PFT specific workouts will give you a better score.  But do you think someone with a goal 9-hour at Leadville or 4h30m century is less fit because they might only run an 11 minute?  The Air Force seems to think so.  I bet someone who focuses on that 1.5 mile time wouldn't do well beyond 10 miles running or beyond 50 miles on the bike.  But that doesn't mean that one is more fit than the other.  Or is a greater risk for cardiovascular disease than the other. 

Especially since the best any of us could do to lower our risk is to sleep more, lower stress, and eat healthier.  But the USAF would never allow a good enough work-life balance for that.  In fact, to get those workouts in to improve fitness, you're probably sacrificing all 3 of those other metrics that are probably more important to heart health than speed endurance.

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, Bigred said:

Interval training, sets of half mile and mile repeats. I’m almost 40 and weigh 220 and I run a sub 10 minute 1.5 mile. 
 

I also had my VO2 tested and it was average to slightly above. It helps, but putting in the correct training helps even more. 

That’s awesome.

I prefer long distance endurance running which, strangely enough, is way less hard on my body than training for the damn 1.5 mi time trial. 

[HU&W]

Call me simple, but I see the utility of a functional pt test.  

100m sprint (can I get away from a burning airplane/building)
800m weighted carry (can I do work without causing a burden to someone else)

Record the times of each, but set the standard by career field. 

[BeefBears]

2 hours ago, HU&W said:

Call me simple, but I see the utility of a functional pt test.  

100m sprint (can I get away from a burning airplane/building)
800m weighted carry (can I do work without causing a burden to someone else)

Record the times of each, but set the standard by career field. 

Last time I ran from a burning jet I ran away at a medium pace for 1.5 miles straight off base. Then I did 80 pushups to impress the locals.

[pawnman]

Quote

I can prove my fitness any day they want by my Watts/Kg and HR variability.  So maybe we should just have an "eye test" or a "submit your own data for consideration".  I show them the 5,000 miles I rode this year and they just check "complete".

One guy proposed just that.

Of course, FB was then flooded with "I'm not putting government tracking software on my phone" and "the Air Force can't make me buy a smart watch".  So I guess we have a ways to go before I can just give the Air Force access to my Strava and call it a day.

Edited December 15, 2020 by pawnman
fixed a word

[Danger41]

This thread is funny to me because the 215 pound 80% body fat 19 year old A1C that’s never done any kind of athletic feat in his life will see this and say “I’m built more for Ironman and power sports. This 1.5 mile is bullshit and doesn’t reveal my true fitness.”

[frog]

2 hours ago, Danger41 said:

This thread is funny to me because the 215 pound 80% body fat 19 year old A1C that’s never done any kind of athletic feat in his life will see this and say “I’m built more for Ironman and power sports. This 1.5 mile is bullshit and doesn’t reveal my true fitness.”

This.

Unfortunately, some sort of PT test is necessary because there is a subset of people who would completely let themselves go if there was no accountability. Anecdotally, the one guy who I’ve  been on patrols with downrange that couldn’t carry his own load was someone who had a history of failures and near failures. He also complained that he just wasn’t “suited” to the PT test. We don’t need marathon runners or bodybuilders, but I am a believer that some level of fitness is necessary.

I vote to leave the PT test alone (minus the waist measurement). It isn’t perfect, but it is simple and straightforward. The AF will find a way to mess it up if they overhaul it.

[celtic020]

2 minutes ago, frog said:

This.

Unfortunately, some sort of PT test is necessary because there is a subset of people who would completely let themselves go if there was no accountability. Anecdotally, the one guy who I’ve  been on patrols with downrange that couldn’t carry his own load was someone who had a history of failures and near failures. He also complained that he just wasn’t “suited” to the PT test. We don’t need marathon runners or bodybuilders, but I am a believer that some level of fitness is necessary.

I vote to leave the PT test alone (minus the waist measurement). It isn’t perfect, but it is simple and straightforward. The AF will find a way to mess it up if they overhaul it.

I agree. I'm a bigger dude.  6'1'' and 218 lbs and I do about a 3 month prep period for each PT test with a real strict 1 month diet rolling in to make sure I can get the waist points.  Pushups, situps, 1.5 mile run and amazingly a lot of people of all shapes and sizes still fail.  Such would be the case with any assessment.  I think the components are fine and even as someone who doesn't max the waist every time, I'm fine with that too.  Also people forget it was 2 minutes pushups, 2 minutes sit-ups, 2 mile run fairly recently.  1 minute, 1 minute, and 1.5 miles is an easier test.  A lot of things in the AF could use an overhaul or a re-org.  PFT prolly not one of them.  

[VMFA187]

21 hours ago, Bigred said:

Interval training, sets of half mile and mile repeats. I’m almost 40 and weigh 220 and I run a sub 10 minute 1.5 mile. 
 

I also had my VO2 tested and it was average to slightly above. It helps, but putting in the correct training helps even more. 

I wish I had a track close by because I'd definitely do more interval training.

23 hours ago, Homestar said:

The Air Force always over thinks things. Marines just say “lift heavy stuff and run fast.”

I like that the Marine Corps balances our tests. In the spring we run the PFT (3 mile run, pullups, situps) and in the fall we do the CFT (880m run in boots, 35lb ammo can presses, and a 2:45-5 min, dependent upon fitness and strength, maneuver under fire dill with sprints, buddy carries, ammo can carries, a grenade toss, and some low crawling).

The skinny dudes typically do pretty well on the PFT - Not too many 200lb + dudes running 3 miles in 18:00 to max the test or doing 23 strict pullups, but those little guys tend to struggle in the fall when those 200lb dudes carry those ammo cans and other people like they're nothing.

Bottom line, do a combination of dedicated strength based training, crossfit-like workouts, eat healthy and you'll be fine on pretty much anything.

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, MyCS said:

If you fail your fitness test, I just can't take you serious anymore. I had a pain level of 10/10 in my back about a month or two before my fitness test. Flight medicine told me to just bang out the push ups and sit-ups and they would take care of me. I took a horse pill sized ibuprofen and maxed out both categories.

Come to find out, I had herniated a disc in my back that was pinching the nerve going into my right leg. I had to have surgery a few months later. 

This is why I always do a little bit over the max when I train. Just in case you have to push through a little pain, your body will not fail you. I don't suggest this because what if my disc clamped down on that nerve even more during my test and I lost all feeling in that leg?

WTF did the flight doc tell you to suck up any of that? I would have told him to shove it and write me a waste only profile. I mean, good for you for doing it, but how much more damage did you risk doing to your back, especially on situps, because, from what it sounds like, they didn't buy that you had the pain you said you did. 

[HossHarris]

Enjoy your disability later ...

[jazzdude]

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

WTF did the flight doc tell you to suck up any of that? I would have told him to shove it and write me a waste only profile. I mean, good for you for doing it, but how much more damage did you risk doing to your back, especially on situps, because, from what it sounds like, they didn't buy that you had the pain you said you did. 

Had a similar situation with my shoulder.  Vitamin M and more physical therapy to get through a PT test, then ended up getting surgery.

The clinic really didn't want people on profile either...I had to ask to be put on profile a few times when recovering from shoulder surgery (I mean, having your arm in a sling isn't duty limiting at all, right?)

[VMFA187]

6 hours ago, MyCS said:

This is why I always do a little bit over the max when I train. Just in case you have to push through a little pain, your body will not fail you. 

How did you mentally prepare yourself to become such a badass? 

[arg]

During an FAA physical the doc told me something funny/true. "The Air Force only wants you to last 20 years, we want you to last longer than that."

[17D_guy]

On 12/15/2020 at 11:54 AM, MyCS said:

If you fail your fitness test, I just can't take you serious anymore. I had a pain level of 10/10 in my back about a month or two before my fitness test....Just in case you have to push through a little pain, your body will not fail you. I don't suggest this because what if my disc clamped down on that nerve even more during my test and I lost all feeling in that leg?

I have a high pain tolerance.  I've had 2 back surgeries (thanks AF!) because of herniated discs (also thanks AF!).  Unlike you I could not do pushups without debilitating pain...but I could do sit-ups/run. 

Pain is different for everyone...but 10/10 pain is not what you described.  10/10 pain is standing up from bed after sleeping, immediately falling to the ground and crawling while hyperventilating to where you keep your narcotics/opiates, choking some down (while possible dry heaving) and waiting for the numbness to set in.  All you can think about is the pain, and breathing.

Or, if you try to see if the pain is all in your head (as the docs suggested) and skip your 2nd of 3 daily doses of narcotics on your way to your Master's Class (thanks AF) and everyone's asking you what's wrong as your limp get worse and worse, you're flush and sweating for no reason.  So you take 3x 300mg percocets (hope those kidneys last) and walk to your car where you take off your blouse to scream into it until they kick in.

I'm not trying to "one up brah" but I read your comment and I don't get it.  When I had 10/10 pain I was an asshole to the docs until I got what I needed to survive.  I've had friends, officers, who failed PT test literally because of broken backs, fucked ankles/shoulders they tried to push through. We don't get flight docs, comm/cyber dudes are with the unwashed masses at the MDG.

I would encourage you to work with any subordinates and bros to NOT push through the pain.

As a little bit older dude...I didn't judge people based on their PT test failures.  In a Sq leadership position I saw too many fuck-fuck games with PT tests to make a blanket statement like that.  We are in a very selective environment with young and healthy people for the vast majority of our careers, and it blinds us to what hurt/injured people actually deal with and the majority of our citizenry deal with on the medical side.

Legit, dealing with the pain those 2 instances was the only time suicide even entered my thoughts in 21 years service.

Now as @HossHarrispoints out, I'm sure those experiences weighed in on my 100% disability (thanks VA)...but I'd much rather have a spine and feet, ankles, knees and hips well enough so I could run/walk fast without being out of commission an hour after finishing.  My back led to the rest of my lower body literally wasting away.

[Sua Sponte]

On 12/15/2020 at 5:06 PM, HossHarris said:

Enjoy your disability later ...

The VA found this comment not to be service connected.

[17D_guy]

13 hours ago, MyCS said:

Geesh bro. Sorry to hear about your struggles.  I can 100% relate on some of your statements. I kept pressing the doctors to figure it out because I was misdiagnosed twice by the Hobby Lobby of flight medicine.

They thought it was iliotibial band syndrome in my right leg. Then an MRI discovered a hip impingement. The hip specialist off base laughed at flight medicine and said it's your back! 

My issue appeared in my right leg during a normal jog in 2016. I stopped and walked home . I couldn't do a sit-up either. Wake up at night and it felt like my leg was on fire so I would sleep in a bathtub of water. Tried running again a month later and I would just limp after completion. It was the calm before the storm when the disc would clamp down on my sciatic nerve. Flight medicine pulled me from a flight after telling them I was popping 3 ibuprofen a day just to fly before a deployment for the pain. My CC was pissed and was like you're always injured. 

I've had CC's that were toxic as shit, and still didn't pull this line.  Then had great CC's otherwise, and said this.  I don't get it.
 

Quote

My surgeon was great. Had me in/out in 40 mins for my lumbar microdisectomy.

Wow.  I had my first one in 2002, took hours at Travis hospital.  Second one was in Omaha, and about would have been about this fast except they found the cause of pain was bone growth into the sciatic nerve from previous surgery site.  I've got the worst mutant power.

 

Quote

Told me to continue staying in great shape and he typically only sees a reoccurrence in overweight individuals. 

Well...fuck.  Carl's Jr is so good though.

[Muscle2002]

The DAF just released a new policy governing body composition effective April 2023. No more waist measurements. Now, it’s waist-to-height ratios. The first measurement will be non-retributive. Afterwards, not meeting the required ratio “will be considered a failure to meet standards and will require enrollment in a formal self-directed BCIP that may result in consideration for administrative action, including separation for continued failures.” 

 

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3262830/department-of-the-air-force-outlines-new-body-composition-program-for-airmen-gu/

[nsplayr]

Humm…quick math says max waist for a 5’10” person is 38”. And I know a handful of people fatter than that and shorter than me 😅

What I wanna see is what I’ve heard the Space Nerds…er Force are doing with a wearable and tracked metrics year-round in lieu of a once a year test.

Some people may not like that and I wouldn’t want to see it as a mandatory program, but I’d love to try that out sometime. If anyone knows an AF squadron that has figured out a waiver or experiment among those lines holla at me!

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Humm…quick math says max waist for a 5’10” person is 38”. And I know a handful of people fatter than that and shorter than me 😅

What I wanna see is what I’ve heard the Space Nerds…er Force are doing with a wearable and tracked metrics year-round in lieu of a once a year test.

Some people may not like that and I wouldn’t want to see it as a mandatory program, but I’d love to try that out sometime. If anyone knows an AF squadron that has figured out a waiver or experiment among those lines holla at me!

The best thing that's going to come out of that program (Space Force) is an enormous research population to study. Its really clear that nutritionist and scientist aren't 100% confident on what's happening with obesity/health in the US. There is clearly a hormonal link that is altering our body's chemistry to manage hunger to the point that the simple CICO advice that was ingrained for nearly 5 decades isn't sufficient to really address the underlying crises. You can only tell a person to stop eating but if their brain is literally convincing their instinctual responses that the body is starving they are going to struggle to ever be anything but overweight. 

 

[StoleIt]

7 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Humm…quick math says max waist for a 5’10” person is 38”. And I know a handful of people fatter than that and shorter than me 😅

What I wanna see is what I’ve heard the Space Nerds…er Force are doing with a wearable and tracked metrics year-round in lieu of a once a year test.

Some people may not like that and I wouldn’t want to see it as a mandatory program, but I’d love to try that out sometime. If anyone knows an AF squadron that has figured out a waiver or experiment among those lines holla at me!

We wore the "Whoop" ring for ORM purposes. It went away pretty quickly when the tech dude who did all the work to get set up PCA'd.

My only issue with using a wearable device to track healthy/fitness (which I'm a fan of, I love my smart watch for this reason) is that if you work in a vault or do any significant amounts of flying I can see you get flagged and put in the bad camp. Sure, even if I hit the gym and run 2 miles before a flight, 24 hours stuck in a metal tube eating a ton of calories isn't gonna help. I do get a kick out of it when my watch tells me to get up and go for a walk when I'm halfway across the ocean and have 3 more legs to go. Airplane mode needs to apply to fitness!

[Biff_T]

2 minutes ago, StoleIt said:

We wore the "Whoop" ring for ORM purposes. It went away pretty quickly when the tech dude who did all the work to get set up PCA'd.

My only issue with using a wearable device to track healthy/fitness (which I'm a fan of, I love my smart watch for this reason) is that if you work in a vault or do any significant amounts of flying I can see you get flagged and put in the bad camp. Sure, even if I hit the gym and run 2 miles before a flight, 24 hours stuck in a metal tube eating a ton of calories isn't gonna help. I do get a kick out of it when my watch tells me to get up and go for a walk when I'm halfway across the ocean and have 3 more legs to go. Airplane mode needs to apply to fitness!

Body by AMC.  Lol

They should've brought back the bike test.   Nothing quite like getting an excellent immediately after smoking a few Marlboro Red 100s.   

[nsplayr]

2 hours ago, StoleIt said:

We wore the "Whoop" ring for ORM purposes. It went away pretty quickly when the tech dude who did all the work to get set up PCA'd.

My only issue with using a wearable device to track healthy/fitness (which I'm a fan of, I love my smart watch for this reason) is that if you work in a vault or do any significant amounts of flying I can see you get flagged and put in the bad camp. Sure, even if I hit the gym and run 2 miles before a flight, 24 hours stuck in a metal tube eating a ton of calories isn't gonna help. I do get a kick out of it when my watch tells me to get up and go for a walk when I'm halfway across the ocean and have 3 more legs to go. Airplane mode needs to apply to fitness!

Was it a whoop band around your wrist or an oura ring? Oura is approved in our SCIF already along with a handful of other devices.

Did you do tracked metrics in lieu of the annual fitness assessment or just in addition?

A fitness tracker would work well for RPA specifically, we literally have a gym in the room adjacent to one of our GCSs haha, no excuses!

I’m interested on the details of what y’all did particularly if it was in lieu of the annual PT test. My CC is interested and I’m trynna make it happen. Accelerate change or lose right? May the odds ever be in our favor…