New Fitness Rules

[SurelySerious]

Thread revival.

Here at my base, they are holding the run inside due to the winter weather. No big deal right? Only if you don't mind running 24 laps around the b-ball court in the gym. It doesn't seem right or even safe to me. When I took the test in the late summer, we didn't run on the track or around a 1.5 mile course. Instead we did a 1.5 mile shuttle run (four 0.375 mile legs) thats on a slight incline. No kidding, you ran, touched a white line, then ran back to the start/finish line. I'm fairly certain that in both tests, you'll loose significant time. My run time was about 20 seconds slower than my average times I had been running in the months leading up to my test. The stop/start thing was murder. And my knees are not looking forward to the "basketball court NASCAR challenge".

Does it specify in the regs on how the run is supposed to be administered?

AFI 36-2905 is governing. Run administration covered in Attachment 8, on page 62:

A8.1. Course Requirements for 1.5-mile timed run (2640 yards/2414 meters) and 1.0-mile timed walk (1760 yards/1609 meters)

A8.1.1. Establish a standard course of accurate distance that is as level and even as possible.

A8.1.1.1. If a typical 6-lap track is used:

A8.1.1.1.1. For a 1.5-mile timed run, it should be 440 yards per lap; or 6 laps on a 400-meter track plus an additional 46 feet for 1.5-miles.

A8.1.1.1.2. For a 1.0-mile timed walk, it should be 440 yards per lap; or 4 laps on a 400-meter track plus an additional 31 feet for 1.0-mile.

A8.1.1.2. Course should have limited exposure to traffic, should not have a continuous incline/decline or rolling hills; avoid slopes exceeding two degrees. If using a road course, where possible, start and finish should be at the same location.

A8.1.1.3. Clearly mark the start and finish lines (and half-way point for road courses).

A8.1.2. Trained personnel will monitor participants, ensuring all members complete entire course and are continuously observed for course completion, safety, counting laps if required and recording run times.

A8.1.3. Indoor track may be used during inclement weather.

[Happy29]

Any other reg out there besides AFI 36-2905 that dictates PT tests prior to deployments. AFI 36-2905 just says you need a PT test that is current when you deploy, regardless if it will expire a day/week/month into your deployment.

2.12.4. Deployed Location. Members must have a current fitness score on file prior to deployment. Member will not be considered "exempt" in the deployed location until their current FA expires. If a member fails before deploying and their OPR/EPR closes out after the deployment starts, member will be marked "DOES NOT MEET STANDARDS" on the OPR/EPR. If they pass, they will be marked "MEETS STANDARDS" on the OPR/EPR. The only time "exempt" should be marked is if their current FA "expires" and they are in a deployed location where they CANNOT test.

[Truman08]

This is how I feel. First time I took the new PT test, I failed on the push ups alone. The PTL I had was a jack-$#% and didn't count 30+ of my total pushups. Took the test on a Monday, failed, and re-took the test on the following Friday and scored a 95+ (wasn't attempting to brag, just making a point). Honestly, I believe that hiring out contractor PTLs is crap because apparently they go "by the books" and don't take into account that what they're grading you on could have a very positive or negative impact on your future career.

[busdriver]

This new focus on PT is retarded. I know guys who are cross-fit freaks who go on about how awesome the new PT focus is, but really? We're the fucking Air Force. How important is being able to crank out a million push ups in 30 seconds?

We now live in a world were flying hours are getting cut, funds are scarce and you want to shift the focus away from mission excellence? The only fucking thing that matters is getting the job done, everything else is ancillary. If a dude is obviously a fat ass, sure put him on a program to un-fuck himself. But is it really worth it to the AF to take an otherwise excellent aviator/troop/leader and hamstring him due to lackluster performance in an area that has nothing to do with his ability to do his job?

[xaarman]

https://www.stripes.com/news/air-force-tweaks-new-fitness-policy-1.130601

The Air Force has adjusted some standards on its revamped fitness policy, permitting airmen to fail four times in 24 months before being considered for discharge, instead of being up for discharge after failing two consecutive tests.

Woo.

[Toro]

Related to the last post - Dozens of changes reshape PT test

Highlights:

Fist push-ups are now legal.

You can flunk four times before facing discharge.

It’s back to you counting for each other, under the watchful eye of a civilian test giver. A civilian test giver can supervise up to 12 airmen.

You can bridge or bow your back or take your hands or feet off the floor — but only in the “up” position.

Deployed testing and evaluation is optional for those deployed less than a year.

Cold-weather restrictions kick in only when the mercury drops below 20 degrees, and wind is blowing at least 15 mph and gusting at 20 mph or higher.

And under the "somebody pulled their cranium out of their ass" category, they shitcanned the PT patch.

[nsplayr]

Dozens of changes reshape PT tes...

Yup, the way I'm looking at it these changes are the first indication that the FAC concept is failing. You need a ton of people at one time to give tests to groups as large as 30 (since there's only 3x tests per day, 4 days a week at my base), but they only need to be there like 4 hours a day and there are large breaks inbetween tests. That means either paying workers to sit around and do nothing, or using common sense and tapping the vast amount of "free" labor available on base in the form of other airmen.

We're taking bets on how soon we UFPMs can start testing folks again due to FAC undermanning...can't come soon enough because I could personally test every member of my unit (while I'm home) and alleviate 100% of the work the FAC is currently doing and it would add maybe 4-5 hours to my normal work week, not counting the time I'd save not having to schedule people online and/or constantly call the FAC to schedule walk-ins...

[Rifleman96]

Related to the last post - Dozens of changes reshape PT test

Highlights:

Fist push-ups are now legal.

You can flunk four times before facing discharge.shitcanned the PT patch.

They also put in a 24 month period to the 4 pt tests. My interpretation of this new policy is so that the AF can keep a general enlisted guy or shoe clerk officer for the majority of their initial commitment. All assumption, but AF probably figures most people let themselves get out of shape after about 2 yrs and then they start failing. Now that dude/dudette has another 2 yrs to pass or will be shown the door, allowing them to fulfill the majority of their committment. Then the AF is also getting rid of the "fatties" that would be a drain on the military healthcare system for the next 20+ yrs.

[Dubs]

You can flunk four times before facing discharge.

So, the AF has met and/or exceeded force-shaping requirements? Well at least until the next round of "Do more with less!"...

[Fud]

Or maybe the decided/realized that using the PT test was a REALLY shitty way to thin the herd.

I took my PT test before my Christmas leave and it was actually an awesome experience. From what I understand, AFGSC was one of the only MAJCOMs to allow the member to count Pushups and Situps for another member, while the FAC member watched. I scored higher than I ever have before (due to the new scoring system), and am glad I don't have to worry about the issue for another.

Two things concern me though:

1. The fact that "big changes" are coming. This rarely only means good changes, and it is sad to me that the USAF can't decide on a no-nonsense test to stick with. I would love to have a test which realistically and accurately assesses (this version of the test) my fitness level, but I cringe about any "changes" that are ever mentioned.

2. The subjectivity of the tester or member counting your pushups/situps. I am sure those who have failed a test by these two components could have been because of performance bias by the person administering the test. It is not rocket science to count someone's laps when they run, and neither are the pushups/situps. I recommend every member review the AFI and call someone out if they are wrong when assessing you.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Fud

[Guest]

I heard a guy got preemptively cut from the last A-10 weapons school class because he failed the PT test before he left home station.

WTF? I sure hope that isn't really how things work now.

[czecksikhs]

I heard a guy got preemptively cut from the last A-10 weapons school class because he failed the PT test before he left home station.

WTF? I sure hope that isn't really how things work now.

Had a bud at my last duty station who failed the test after a night of dissolution about a year ago which cost him his WIC package and his upcoming job as the Xth AF/CC aide de camp. I am still not convinced missing out on being an aide de camp is a bad thing.

[Ram]

Here's a no-shit true story of what happened to me at the Osan FAC:

It's Feb '10 and I'm doing my sit-ups with the FAC civilian lady. There's a toe-bar in the little room we're using, but I ask for her to hold my toes down with her knees (as is my option per the AFI). Whenever I've used the toe bar, my feet have slid around loosely, and having someone kneel on my toes makes it easier for me to max the test (57 reps required...piece of cake). The FAC lady is a little ruffled by this...maybe because she's not used to kneeling on the toes of men, or maybe because she doesn't have enough hands to hold my feet down AND use her little "clicker." Whatever it is, she's unable to use the clicker, and it causes her counting to go like this:

"36...37...38...39...50...51...52..."

I let her get to 55 (really 45), and then I stop (resting in the up position, of course) so I can say "hey miss...your count is off by 10. I'm really on rep 45." This completely confuses her, so I continue to crank out reps because I only have 20 seconds left. "56...57...58...59...60!" she says, and she STANDS UP with 15 seconds left on the clock while I'm MID-REP for 61 (really 51). "Great job," she says, "you did more than the required max."

I'm still on the floor trying to convince her that I need to do 7 more reps to max the sit-ups, but she has no idea what I'm talking about. I stand up and try to explain to her, but she's not getting it. She writes "60" on my sheet, and I say "hey, that's not true...you counted 60, but I only did 50 reps because you mis-counted." She says "oh...thanks for your honesty," erases the "60" and replaces it with "50." When I see her do this, I say "well lady, let's get back on the floor so I can knock out the remaining 7 reps I need to max this."

"We can't do that sir...your time has expired," she says.

When I hear her say THAT, I'm about ready to go ape shit fucking crazy. She has robbed me of the 7 additional reps I could have EASILY cranked-out in the time I had left. I explained her error to her and she began to understand, but her only "fix" for the situation was for me to just do the sit-up test again. Uh, no...THAT was not going to happen.

I told her she had 2 choices: (1) we both stop all testing immediately and walk together to the FAC office to sort this out, with all the witnesses around us to back-up my story, or (2) she lets me do 7 more reps so she can write "57" on my sheet. Instead of doing either of those, she just writes "57" on the sheet, hands it to me, and says "don't be late to the running portion of your test...you should get moving, sir." UFB.

So, what if she had shorted me 10 reps instead of giving me 10 free reps? How many other people has she screwed up the count with?

[contraildash]

So the article mentions how the minimums all add up to 75 points now. Did they adjust the points or adjust the minimum number to match this?

Also, if the new min temp is 20 I better not get bitched at for wearing my UA thermals, gloves, and beanie. That's balls cold and we all know that our PT tracksuits (which are made from recycled coleman tents) don't do anything but add extra drag and noise. That's if you can even find one at the uniform shop that's not an extra small.

[contraildash]

Found the memo: HERE

I found my answer on the points: nothing has changed. All they did was 'highlight" one possible combination to get 75 points. You still need to meet the minimum AND score a 75. If you don't get the min, then you still fail and now get zero points.

Seems like they got tired of hearing "yeah I failed but still scored a 88."

26. Overall, scoring did not change, but several changes were made to the FA scoring charts for clarity: This guidance supersedes guidelines/charts established in AFI 36-2905 (dated 1 July 10), Attachment 14.

a. Scores below the required minimum component values now read zero.

b. "Targets" in each component are now provided. These targets are designed to illustrate a combination of component scores which would equal an overall 75 composite score. These targets are highlighted via a “#” symbol and dotted underline. The overall passing score of 75 may be obtained in many component score variations.

c. Airmen failing to meet a Target Component Value, but still scoring at or above the Minimum Component Value (lowest "fitness/health risk" limit), can still pass the assessment by exceeding targets in other components.

[Duck]

That makes it sound like if you don't get the mins on pushups, you get a zero for the pushup portion, BUT if you max out everything else, you still get a 90 on the PFT and pass because you scored higher in the other areas.

"Airmen failing to meet a Target Component Value, but still scoring at or above the Minimum Component Value (lowest "fitness/health risk" limit), can still pass the assessment by exceeding targets in other components."

So can they make the strength portion any more irrelevant? How about we just make the PFT based off of your run score and waist measurement. /sarcasm

The Air Force doesn't want you to be in shape, they want runners. For crying out loud, I get just as many points for my effing waist measurement than my pushups and situps combined? No wonder we are the laughing stock of the military.

Whatever, I will put up with this bullsh*t until I am eligible to get out, then pull the plug on big blue.

EDIT: Sorry for the b*tching, I didn't used to be like this. The AF instilled this quality into me!

Edited January 25, 2011 by Duck

[nsplayr]

Took the PFT this morning and the whole "have a buddy count for you" seemed to work well. The people from the FAC were too overwhelmed to be pushup Nazis and I think most people are ready and willing to not be dicks now that they see what the alternative is. On the other hand, a chick from the FAC did fail to count about 8 of my situps for not going all the way down, which is unusual from what I've seen in the past; did 60 good ones anyways just a a little FU to the powers that be.

Hopefully the bad idea of the FAC will be allowed to fail and we can go back to testing on our own. If we're so worried about integrity issues there are other ways around that, but the only thing the FAC is good for in my opinion is employing 6-9 individuals who would probably be jobless otherwise.

Newest wrinkle at my unit is that based on the new guidance, deployment waivers are no longer required (i.e. a member's PFT expires while they are deployed). If that happens, you are exempt while you're gone and for 42 days once you get back. Seemed like a way to get rid of paperwork, good thought. Except now how in the hell is the FAC (which is the only place data can be entered into the AFFMS system) supposed to know when my guys are gone vs. if a dude just goes non-current because he's lazy/forgetful. Approved solution is to send a memo when members deploy versus a CC-signed waiver. Great, trade one dumb process for another. Progress at it's finest...

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Took the PFT this morning and the whole "have a buddy count for you" seemed to work well. The people from the FAC were too overwhelmed to be pushup Nazis and I think most people are ready and willing to not be dicks now that they see what the alternative is. On the other hand, a chick from the FAC did fail to count about 8 of my situps for not going all the way down, which is unusual from what I've seen in the past; did 60 good ones anyways just a a little FU to the powers that be.

Hopefully the bad idea of the FAC will be allowed to fail and we can go back to testing on our own. If we're so worried about integrity issues there are other ways around that, but the only thing the FAC is good for in my opinion is employing 6-9 individuals who would probably be jobless otherwise.

Newest wrinkle at my unit is that based on the new guidance, deployment waivers are no longer required (i.e. a member's PFT expires while they are deployed). If that happens, you are exempt while you're gone and for 42 days once you get back. Seemed like a way to get rid of paperwork, good thought. Except now how in the hell is the FAC (which is the only place data can be entered into the AFFMS system) supposed to know when my guys are gone vs. if a dude just goes non-current because he's lazy/forgetful. Approved solution is to send a memo when members deploy versus a CC-signed waiver. Great, trade one dumb process for another. Progress at it's finest...

The key to doing situps if you're paired with a FACer is to have them hold your feet for you if you can at all arrange it. That way they can't verify if your shoulders actually touch the floor or not. Hopefully when the FAC concept inevitably bites the dust not too many otherwise good dudes will have been burned. I already know of a few good dudes who are being shown the door because their flight suit fits too tight. HOPEFULLY the damage doesn't become too extensive before the problem is corrected.

WRT not being able to test while you're deployed-- NOT TRUE. You are not REQUIRED to test while deployed, and CAN be waivered, but my understanding is that you have the OPTION of testing while deployed, so long as the tester is a qualified PTL. I'm not saying that testing while deployed is an easy way to get hooked up by a bro, but I do know that most people are in GOOD shape while deployed, and catching up on lost time while on R&R generally doesn't do a lot to improve your PT score, so testing in the last week or two you're deployed might not be a bad idea if you get the chance.

[contraildash]

Just finished my test this morning. There were 8 of us, with 4 AD counters, and 3 FACers to supervise. All in all it was much better than the first time I tested under the new standards back in Sept. The FACers were rather fair in their supervision of the test, long gone were the PT gestapo types. I was corrected a few times, but it was for small stuff, and I only had two pushups not counted.

The new 'target points' were a joke. Everyone was cracking up about them, as we all still had to jump around the chart to figure out our required scores as we went along. I just used them as a baseline: if I'm doing better than these, then I don't have to worry.

My only realy complaint: running indoors. 23 laps, 96 turns. I ran two practice PFTs outside in the past week, and even in sub freezing temps and snow I was running in the 10:30-10:45 range. Today my run time was 13:07. Painful, you just couldn't keep speed around the corners even if you were doing it race car style hitting the apex. I don't see how they think you can run a 1.5 around a basketball court and not loose time.

In the fall I had a component failure, but still scored an 85. Today I increased my situps, pushups, and waist, but scored in the 70's because of my run. Had I run my usual time, I would have had a score in the mid-to-high 80's.

Per the new memo, we had to run inside. Temps were below freezing and it was "snaining" outside. Not that I would have run outside, snow isn't a big deal to me. Freezing rain/whatever is.

Out of the 8 of us, I was the third to finish. I'm pretty sure only one or two other guys made the 14:00 cut (I think that's the limit). So your point about people being on the verge is spot on. I already started to spread the word around my SQ.

[nsplayr]

13:36 is the cutoff if you're under 30, so honestly you were probably closer to failing than you thought. However, if you normally run a 10 and change outside that's gonna be a problem for people that aren't that fast under optimal conditions.

Seriously, you should have a foot to stand on if you can get sympathetic leadership to talk to the person who "approved" that run course to. Obviously winter conditions make testing outdoors tough, but seriously, if it was a legit indoor track, that makes sense even though you would still lose time (example: Randolph AFB has a 1/8 mile indoor track). But using a basketball court or whatever you guys were forced to use with 69 turns is not a fair assessment and should not be an "approved course" as is required by the regs. Unfortunately for you the regs don't delve into what an approved course must consist of, but whoever does that approving must have guidance of some kind somewhere...

[Guest filthy_liar]

Gents, here's the point. The PT test is a standard. It is a standard in the AF, as it is in every other service in every other military in the world. While there may be some bafoonery being executed by the FACs, that is not an excuse to perform piss poor on the PT test. Trust me, nobody admires you if you barely pass your PT test, regardless of what you read on here. Sister service members do not admire that, and neither do coalition partners. If the FAC is bafooning your score, roll in your commander. Saying that you don't need to excel on the test because of your "job" is a cop-out. A Pakistani helo pilot probably doesn't need to run a 6 minute mile for two miles. An Army heavy brigade commander probably doesn't need to run a 6 minute mile for two miles. A Marine Harrier pilot probably doesn't need to run a 6 minute mile for two miles. But if they are all doing that, and the USAF dude is complaining about the USAF PT test, it is difficult for them to put that into perspective. I get it, the USAF probably could do without a PT test. But think bigger than that. Strive to do the best you can, and if the FAC is clowning up, get your CC involved. It is a standard that is inherent in every military, and has been for several years prior to any of us joining the service. Be the guy or gal that people look at and say yea, you smoked the standards. There will be more of those folks, believe it or not, than the folks that are listening to you complain about the PT test. If you min run the PT test, most folks will not sympathize with the "my job doesn't require that" argument. Most folks will wonder why you are min running the standard, and your rep will come into question. And it gets worse with the more rank you have and the further you wander from tactical operations in a USAF squadron.

That's my two cents on that, I know a lot of you disagree. I've read the Deid thread, and yes, there are a lot of rules that are lunacy. The difference, in my opinion, is that the lunacy rules are pretty much viewed the same way universally. But if you min run a USAF PT test, and complain about it....there isn't going to be much sympathy outside of your flight or maybe squadron. Doesn't matter if you are a pilot or a door kicker, an American or a New Zealander.

[capt4fans]

Gents, here's the point. The PT test is a standard. It is a standard in the AF, as it is in every other service in every other military in the world. While there may be some bafoonery being executed by the FACs, that is not an excuse to perform piss poor on the PT test. Trust me, nobody admires you if you barely pass your PT test, regardless of what you read on here. Sister service members do not admire that, and neither do coalition partners. If the FAC is bafooning your score, roll in your commander. Saying that you don't need to excel on the test because of your "job" is a cop-out. A Pakistani helo pilot probably doesn't need to run a 6 minute mile for two miles. An Army heavy brigade commander probably doesn't need to run a 6 minute mile for two miles. A Marine Harrier pilot probably doesn't need to run a 6 minute mile for two miles. But if they are all doing that, and the USAF dude is complaining about the USAF PT test, it is difficult for them to put that into perspective. I get it, the USAF probably could do without a PT test. But think bigger than that. Strive to do the best you can, and if the FAC is clowning up, get your CC involved. It is a standard that is inherent in every military, and has been for several years prior to any of us joining the service. Be the guy or gal that people look at and say yea, you smoked the standards. There will be more of those folks, believe it or not, than the folks that are listening to you complain about the PT test. If you min run the PT test, most folks will not sympathize with the "my job doesn't require that" argument. Most folks will wonder why you are min running the standard, and your rep will come into question. And it gets worse with the more rank you have and the further you wander from tactical operations in a USAF squadron.

That's my two cents on that, I know a lot of you disagree. I've read the Deid thread, and yes, there are a lot of rules that are lunacy. The difference, in my opinion, is that the lunacy rules are pretty much viewed the same way universally. But if you min run a USAF PT test, and complain about it....there isn't going to be much sympathy outside of your flight or maybe squadron. Doesn't matter if you are a pilot or a door kicker, an American or a New Zealander.

The difference here, and we've tried to tell everyone that will listen to this is that if you min run the AF PT test, YOU FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Min run the other services PT test, and you pass (AFAIK) I know it's true in the Army, and pretty sure it's true in the Navy and Marine Corps. So, explain to me how I can do the MIN and FAIL? :darkcloud:

[nsplayr]

The difference here, and we've tried to tell everyone that will listen to this is that if you min run the AF PT test, YOU FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand and I'm a UFPM who's pretty intimately familiar with the regs.

You need to get minimum scores in each component, as well as an overall minimum score of a 75 to pass. You can choose to accomplish that 75 any way you like. For a male under 30, your maximum run time for that component is 13:36, giving you 42.3 points toward your 75. It's not very difficult to gin up 32.7 more points out of a possible 40, so I'm not sure how you can say that if you "min run the AF PT test you fail."

That's simply not true. What is true is that if you get the minimum for each component, you will fail overall, but just getting the minimum in each category wasn't the deal to start with, you still need a 75. It allows you to really really suck at one component (within the bounds of the minimums) yet still make up for it by being good at a different component.

None of this is to say that the test is a good measure of fitness, that I like the test, or that I endorse the scoring system; just pointing out what I think is an incorrect statement. Let me know if I'm reading what you wrote wrong.

Also let's add that if you can't run faster than a 13:36 twice a year like your job depends on it and you're 30 years old or younger, you should be cock slapped. Just my personal opinion.

[sky_king]

Where can I get a copy of my last PFT scores online?

[nsplayr]

Where can I get a copy of my last PFT scores online?

Portal, fitness and health links, Air Force Fitness Management System.

Can view, print all your current and past scores there.

Edited August 5, 2011 by nsplayr