New Fitness Rules

[Bergman]

The guard is testing their own squadrons?

Yes.

[Gas Man]

The guard is testing their own squadrons?

Ops is not allowed to test Ops, Maint is not allowed to test Maint....Ect. PITA

[nsplayr]

Ops is not allowed to test Ops, Maint is not allowed to test Maint....Ect. PITA

Well great, that's a good model. My squadron has probably 10 non-ops folks (AFE, ARMS, 1x Comm) and IVO 140 pilots/CSOs...that will work out well...

[Buddy Spike]

It's going to happen, that is how the Guard is doing it now...once a year

FIFY. Let's not forget that the guard is still better than AFRC and AD WRT queepville.

[Guest]

The USAF somehow survived while letting units administer their own PT tests for over 50 years. I don't see the big deal here.

[nsplayr]

The USAF somehow survived while letting units administer their own PT tests for over 50 years. I don't see the big deal here.

Exactly...let's end the madness and go back to the way things were, what, 3 years ago? Less than that even...

If people are cheating (the so-called reason we went to the FAC concept in the first place) kick them square in the balls and RIF them or whatever. Let the rest of us who follow the rules go on with our days.

[Skitzo]

I agree about monitoring our own but I do remember hearing a senior Captain talking about a Lt Col DO type who told him (who was a UPFM at the time) that his score was 85, and that he needed it recorded COB that day.

[Smokin]

If people use that reasoning, then we shouldn't be able to give checkrides within our own squadrons because the O-3 SEFe might feel pressured by an O-4 ADO. We should have to have another squadron SEFE give checkrides for our squadron. But then, they're in the same wing, so maybe another wing should do it. But they might be in the same numbered AF and feel pressured because of that. Maybe we should just have only SEFEs from another service give the AF checkrides, that'd fix any ability to cheat.

Or we could trust our people to have integrity and squash those caught cheating.

[Kostanza]

Or we could trust our people to have integrity and squash those caught cheating.

As a former PTL let me just say, it's easier said than done. I always told myself that I wouldn't be a PTL nazis when it came to testing people. That I wouldn't take the little bit of power the AF gave me to screw others over. As long as it wasn't blatant you where cheating on your pushups or sit-ups, I'd probably let you skate by. Some knew exactly what they needed on the waist measurement in order to be able to continue on. They'd look at you, gleaming in your eye, hoping like hell you'd just throw them a bone.

Worst of all was having to test someone within your own chain of command. That type of person you knew was just going to suck when it was their turn (sts). That same person who was pleasant to work with and everyone liked. The same person that...

was in charge of your shift or crew

was in charge of making the duty schedule

would let you leave to go get some chow, or run an errand when they didn't have too

would let you leave early or come in late when there was extra manning for the day

could make your duty day a living hell/or enjoyable one on a daily basis

....that's when you think a bit differently. Sure I realized it went against every core value. But when their waiting on a PT test to closeout an EPR/OPR, and knowing that if you don’t help them out, they won’t get to test/pin/sew on rank, and you gota work with that person everyday (that already outranks you)....f*ck, that. I always like to keep in mind a very graceful, heartfelt saying...."don’t shit where you sleep". I'm not saying it's right and I knew where to draw the line.

Base upon this, I think PTLs shouldn't test those working on their same crew/shift/shop/workplace...notice I didnt say squadron.

Flame on...

Edited November 15, 2011 by lennyb

[Boxhead]

Flame on...

You won't hear anything from me. I think the USAF needs to take a good hard look at itself and really see if Physical fitness is the drop dead drag out fight that it really wants to make it. Ironically, most folks I know in the AF, if in an actual knock down drag out fight...would get crushed. But that is besides the point.

Meet a basic standard in BMTS to get in the door, Let AFSCs set their own standards, and test each other with a test that is appropriate to their job, and let the CC (my vote would be Wg/CC, not sq), simply have the authority to say, "Hey, you look like shit, get to not looking like shit like yesterday, or I will crush you".

Maybe ruck marches for cops, box of copier paper carry for MPF, case of beer carry for co-pilots, you know let it make sense. Won't ever happen.

[PolyestherDuck]

You guys are forgetting the real reasons for the "new" fitness standards... namely keeping health care costs down and as a force shaping tool.

[Buddy Spike]

You guys are forgetting the real reasons for the "new" fitness standards... namely keeping health care costs down and as a force shaping tool.

And which of those does it successfully accomplish?

[HU&W]

Meet a basic standard in BMTS to get in the door, Let AFSCs set their own standards, and test each other with a test that is appropriate to their job, and let the CC (my vote would be Wg/CC, not sq), simply have the authority to say, "Hey, you look like shit, get to not looking like shit like yesterday, or I will crush you".

Maybe ruck marches for cops, box of copier paper carry for MPF, case of beer carry for co-pilots, you know let it make sense. Won't ever happen.

Simply brilliant, but would never happen because it makes too much sense.

[Guest]

I agree about monitoring our own but I do remember hearing a senior Captain talking about a Lt Col DO type who told him (who was a UPFM at the time) that his score was 85, and that he needed it recorded COB that day.

Not a big deal in itself but shitty technique since the guy is putting it on a young guy.

....that's when you think a bit differently.

I'm not saying it's right and I knew where to draw the line.

Base upon this, I think PTLs shouldn't test those working on their same crew/shift/shop/workplace...notice I didnt say squadron.

Tough spot to put a young guy in. My opinion is that the DO should oversee the tests, make the appropriate calls as required and brief the CC who has the hammer.

You guys are forgetting the real reasons for the "new" fitness standards... namely keeping health care costs down and as a force shaping tool.

Excellent point. Reducing healthcare costs through "wellness" is in full court press defense mode in the civilian world.

And which of those does it successfully accomplish?

Successfully? None.

FWIW, many of the absolutely shittiest leaders in USAF history have been fitness maniacs and many of the best have not given two shits about it.

[Guest]

Ironically, most folks I know in the AF, if in an actual knock down drag out fight...would get crushed. But that is besides the point.

Especially the fitness nuts.

And, it is not beside the point.

People naturally respect, like him or not, a commander who they know will throw down in a crowded bar. I was lucky to have some great examples of that early in my career. Nothing sets the record straight and cages everyone's gyros like a smartass getting knocked on his ass by the boss. No one really cares how fast the boss can run 1.5 miles away from a fight.

Just sayin'...

[BitteEinBit]

I think the practice of "wellness" as a lifestyle will help slow the rise of the costs of health care for the Air Force, but costs will continue to rise...along with personnel costs. Wellness means people live longer, which means benefits last longer, which means the Air Force will pay longer for those living longer (the other part of our personnel cost problem...hence the "retirement pay" debate). We've been doing this new PT thing for the past 8 years and costs keep rising...so saying AF PT is about cost savings is laughable to me.

IMO, the new fitness test is a force shaping tool...and that is it. I have done the same pushups/situps (57/54) and run times (12:00ish) for the past 8 years and the only thing that has changed is my score (the standards). I think the requirement to max pushups/situps went down for one test when I was in the 35 and above bracket before the new test came out. I only had to do 44 pushups and 47 situps or something to max it...but I'm no more fit today than I was when this PT Test started 8 years ago. Eventually, when I turn 40 using the current standards, I'll be scoring an excellent on my PT Test while still running the same slow and easy 12:00/1.5mile pace with my fat 37 inch waist that I have been the past 8 years...am I all of the sudden healthier?

If they want to kick people out...they'll just make the standards a little harder to encourage the min runners to fail...just like they did with the current standards. Like I've said before...the test isn't that hard, but people both skinny and fat fail it. Easy to cut people who don't meet standards.

[Boxhead]

I think the practice of "wellness" as a lifestyle will help slow the rise of the costs of health care for the Air Force, but costs will continue to rise...along with personnel costs. Wellness means people live longer, which means benefits last longer, which means the Air Force will pay longer for those living longer (the other part of our personnel cost problem...hence the "retirement pay" debate). We've been doing this new PT thing for the past 8 years and costs keep rising...so saying AF PT is about cost savings is laughable to me.

lol, so wait, that means I should be able to sell to my CC the need for intense drinking and unhealthily eating/living and some good ol' fashioned smoke-ins.....If I can just make it till...say 50, the AF only has to pay out 10 years of retirement and then a piddly death bennie...I like it!

OK, I don't but that is just cause I want to meet my grandkids, but I am totally on board with the irony in trying to make us live longer, then say they can't afford it if we do!

People naturally respect, like him or not, a commander who they know will throw down in a crowded bar. I was lucky to have some great examples of that early in my career. Nothing sets the record straight and cages everyone's gyros like a smartass getting knocked on his ass by the boss. No one really cares how fast the boss can run 1.5 miles away from a fight.

Just sayin'...

Totally agree. We can say we are warriors all day long, but our actions say we are Queep-monsters, well, then at the end of the day, we are....*sigh*.

I still have a warm fuzzy for the TSgt that threw me against the wall when I was an Amn, and I am not talking Penn State style here, it was a legit military learning event...I never forgot it, and improved pretty much on the spot and forever.

[HeyWatchThis]

If people use that reasoning, then we shouldn't be able to give checkrides within our own squadrons because the O-3 SEFe might feel pressured by an O-4 ADO. We should have to have another squadron SEFE give checkrides for our squadron. But then, they're in the same wing, so maybe another wing should do it. But they might be in the same numbered AF and feel pressured because of that. Maybe we should just have only SEFEs from another service give the AF checkrides, that'd fix any ability to cheat.

Or we could trust our people to have integrity and squash those caught cheating.

I got it..we should set up a testing cell comprised of civilians, that way, when the checkrides are accomplished, the unquestionable ethics of Bob the blob will put his stamp of approval on the checkride...we can call it Flying Assessment Cells......it will be legandary....

[Guest]

...it was a legit military learning event...I never forgot it, and improved pretty much on the spot and forever.

A technique once known as wall to wall counseling.

[pcola]

I got it..we should set up a testing cell comprised of civilians, that way, when the checkrides are accomplished, the unquestionable ethics of Bob the blob will put his stamp of approval on the checkride...we can call it Flying Assessment Cells......it will be legandary....

Delete this comment immediately before someone sees it and decides its a good idea. Seriously, don't even put ideas like this into the universe or someone scrounging for that last OPR bullet will pitch it to the boss, and we all know how easy it is for retardedness to run rampant...

[spaceman]

FWIW, many of the absolutely shittiest leaders in USAF history have been fitness maniacs and many of the best have not given two shits about it.

Same deal in the Army as well...

A technique once known as wall to wall counseling.

Just as long as you do it by the book!!

https://www.squad-leader.com/fm22_102.htm

[Guest]

Just as long as you do it by the book!!

https://www.squad-lea...om/fm22_102.htm

That is some funny shit.

[LockheedFix]

Time to put active duty SF troops at the gate and show these guys the door.

[Techsan]

Time to put active duty SF troops at the gate and show these guys the door.

They currently are here @ Andrews. Including the main gate where they wear blues, white gloves, white laces on their boots, & ascots. I rarely see the rent a cops @ the gate.

[Scooter14]

The new plan will require police officers to perform 19 push-ups in two minutes—two fewer than its previous 21-push-up requirement—and eliminate the sit-up and 300-meter sprint examinations from the 2011 fitness test. The 17:30 cut-off for the mile-and-a-half run will remain unchanged.

19 pushups in two min and a 17:30 mile and a half? For a cop? YGBSM.

We are doomed.