Pope wing commander removed from duty

[disgruntledemployee]

You also can't forget the all female Herk crew he wanted for all the publicity.

Are you sure it was him that pushed for such a flight, or that he merely jumped on the PR bandwagon to steal a little headline time?

Out

[Guest Form 8]

Are you sure it was him that pushed for such a flight, or that he merely jumped on the PR bandwagon to steal a little headline time?

Out

It was him and then the 737 EAS/CC (the 2 AS/CC back at Pope) who was equally a tool.

[HercDude]

It was him and then the 737 EAS/CC (the 2 AS/CC back at Pope) who was equally a tool.

The 2 AS /CC at the time was Lt Col Brown - pretty sure that's not who you are refering to. Perhaps you are thinking of his successor (not such a cool guy).

Don't know if Fun Burglar had anything to do with the all female Herc crew, but it wouldn't surprise me. He was notorious for only jumping on with crews that had a chick front-ender.

[BQZip01]

Got nothing right now, besides that the guy was hated universally across the Wing. We have Captains and Lt's who have more flying hours than their O-6 Wing Commander.

I'd call him a Penguin since he flew about as often as those birds do.....but then I'd be insulting a really pretty bird that lives in the Arctic.

Here's what I'll be doing along with the rest of the Operators around here this weekend.... :beer:

Penguins live in the Antarctic...

[BossHogg]

The 2 AS /CC at the time was Lt Col Brown - pretty sure that's not who you are refering to. Perhaps you are thinking of his successor (not such a cool guy).

Lt Col Brown was one of the best DO's and CC's I have ever known. Col Romero was also a great CC. Long live the 2AS...

[DC]

We had an all female crew on our 07 deployment at LTAG, but it was more for shits and grins for us.. not leadership's idea and there was no publicity or patches. They somehow managed to come back safe and had fun doing it. Lots of box office jokes over beer. There was talk of quietly putting together an all bad-PT score crew to prove a point, but weight and balance issues...

FWIW, Moose guys at OKAS are all doubled up now w/ nearly no exception.. and most times your roommate is NOT on your crew. We made do w no problems. Its kinda nice to have your roommate gone flying when you aren't..actually.

I never worked w/ this guy, but he's gotta be a pretty bad leader if he's causing blue on blue/barney v herc arguments from the grave.

Edited June 15, 2009 by DC

[Guest C17Wes]

From the maintenance side of things, it is not going well at all. I don't know a single ART in MXG that is not actively looking for another job. Every time Ft Bragg has a job fair, we're all mysteriously on leave. It's like rats off a sinking ship.

Its not just Pope were all the ARTS have left, will be leaving. Or in the process of getting a job with DCMA.

Uniforms instead of blue jeans. Now we will be doing fit to fight twice a year.

[HoHum]

Oh, did Col. "Fun Burgler" finally break the 2,000 hour mark? Amazing.

So he's got Master Nav wings in the pic back at Salem in '95. And his bio says more than 2200 hrs.

According to wikipedia, it's not adding up.

Must've kept his currency at all those staff jobs.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

You can get Master/Command wings using years of rated service and OFDA gates without regard to flight time. For example, for Master Nav, you can have less than the minimum times listed so long as you have 15 years of rated experience, and 144 gate months complete.

So then the question becomes how did he accrue all those gate months in non-flying staff jobs?

Edited June 15, 2009 by Hueypilot812

[capt4fans]

Penguins live in the Antarctic...

Fixed. But you knew what I meant.

[capt4fans]

You can get Master/Command wings using years of rated service and OFDA gates without regard to flight time. For example, for Master Nav, you can have less than the minimum times listed so long as you have 15 years of rated experience, and 144 gate months complete.

So then the question becomes how did he accrue all those gate months in non-flying staff jobs?

Well, I"m bad at math, so not sure but based on assignments, he picked up at least 98 during his first few assgnments...

1. January 1984 - September 1984, student, Undergraduate Navigator Training, Mather AFB, Calif. (9 Months)

2. February 1985 - August 1990, Instructor Navigator, Wing Command and Control Officer, Dyess AFB, Texas (66 Months)

3. August 1990 - August 1994, Military Training Scheduler, Air Officer Commanding Cadet Squadron 10, United States Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, Colo. (0 gate months) but possiblly more

4. August 1994 - July 1996, Airlift Plans Officer, Executive Officer to the Director of Plans, HQ Air Mobility Command, Scott AFB, Ill. (23 Months)

And you only need 96 months in the first 12 years to make the first gate and continue to recieve flight pay to 18, and I think keep accruing gate months. (correct me if I'm wrong on the second part)

So he could have made the first gate (by the skin of his teeth) unless he found some way to get flight time while he was at the USAFA. Then, all he had to do was skate for until he hit the 50th in July of 1998 and start accruing gate months again.

Just my take and please tell me if I'm wrong on it.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

It's probable that he did get his gate months by the skin of his teeth...another interesting fact, he averages about 88 hours a year from the time he entered UNT. Compare that to the current 19AW/CC, who has averaged 150 hours a year over his 20 year flying career...almost double Fun Burglar's average.

[capt4fans]

It's probable that he did get his gate months by the skin of his teeth...another interesting fact, he averages about 88 hours a year from the time he entered UNT. Compare that to the current 19AW/CC, who has averaged 150 hours a year over his 20 year flying career...almost double Fun Burglar's average.

Sounds about right. I refer you to the earlier post that I screwed up. Fun Burglar flew about as often as a Penguin does...

[Herk Driver]

Well, I"m bad at math, so not sure but based on assignments, he picked up at least 98 during his first few assgnments...

1. January 1984 - September 1984, student, Undergraduate Navigator Training, Mather AFB, Calif. (9 Months) plus 4 more at LR so total of 13 months.

2. February 1985 - August 1990, Instructor Navigator, Wing Command and Control Officer, Dyess AFB, Texas (66 Months) - 67 by my count

3. August 1990 - August 1994, Military Training Scheduler, Air Officer Commanding Cadet Squadron 10, United States Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, Colo. (0 gate months) but possiblly more - could have flown the T-43 trainers out of Buckley when they were available ???

4. August 1994 - July 1996, Airlift Plans Officer, Executive Officer to the Director of Plans, HQ Air Mobility Command, Scott AFB, Ill. (23 Months) - wonder where he flew there, if he did, especially as an Exec.

And you only need 96 months in the first 12 years to make the first gate and continue to recieve flight pay to 18, and I think keep accruing gate months. (correct me if I'm wrong on the second part) NO, you don't continue to accrue gate months unless you fly (why I question the months at Scott).

So he could have made the first gate (by the skin of his teeth) unless he found some way to get flight time while he was at the USAFA. Then, all he had to do was skate for until he hit the 50th in July of 1998 and start accruing gate months again.

Just my take and please tell me if I'm wrong on it.

My inputs are imbedded and underlined above. I'll bet he flew enough at USAFA on T-43's to get his additional 16 months that he needed. C4C's (freshmen) had a Nav class (during his time there) that they get an orientation/ DR ride on a T-43 out of C-Springs. That was at least once a semi-annual and there was also a Nav club. They did x-country trips several times a semester. I'm sure he was involved enough to fly for food. That would get him to 96 before getting to staff. Add time at the 5-0 and 61st and voila. Might even throw a waiver in there to complete the mix.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Herk Driver

[HerkDerka]

Glad to hear he got shit canned. Sad to see it took this long for it to happen.

HD

[capt4fans]

It's amazing to me the change in leadership that went on at Pope from the last Wg/CC to the one that just got fired....

[Guest WNFRED]

I'll second that - is this standard C-130 behavior? When a dude has a bad sortie do you teabag his mask?

Piss off and die Tac Assclown.

Yes. But I happen to know this is rampant in the Barney community! Ask Coasta. Word on the street is that he is a major tea bagger

[disgruntledemployee]

It was him and then the 737 EAS/CC (the 2 AS/CC back at Pope) who was equally a tool.

My fellow bros already jumped on you, but I feel compelled to pile on. Unless of course you can say that you were part of the 2nd at that time. But then we may have to question your judgement. Needless to say (to some), the 2nd had good leadership years from Summer 03 up until Ward.

But anyway, back to the real fun. Why does a Wing Commander get fired?

1. Breaking laws: DUI, fraternization, etc.

2. Can't follow orders

3. Can't execute the mish, fail an ORI

4. Incompetent, stupid

5. Pissed off the wrong dude (XVIII ABC/CC for example)

6. Can't lead them selves out of a paper sack

If its not one of these, well, we may never know.

Out

[stract]

what airframes are listed in his Bio? Pope already took it down so I can't look. That will tell you what he might have flown at the Zoo.

[BattleRattle]

what airframes are listed in his Bio? Pope already took it down so I can't look. That will tell you what he might have flown at the Zoo.

The T-43 was listed in his bio.

Edited June 16, 2009 by BattleRattle

[afnav]

The T-43 was listed in his bio.

He was only a student.

That's like listing a Boeing 737 because you flew on Southwest Airlines.

[BattleRattle]

He was only a student.

That's like listing a Boeing 737 because you flew on Southwest Airlines.

HerkDriver above mentioned he could have gotten some hours on T-43s while at USAFA.

[JarheadBoom]

Why does a Wing Commander get fired?

1. Breaking laws: DUI, fraternization, etc.

2. Can't follow orders

3. Can't execute the mish, fail an ORI

4. Incompetent, stupid

5. Pissed off the wrong dude (XVIII ABC/CC for example)

6. Can't lead them selves out of a paper sack

If its not one of these, well, we may never know.

Out

If that were truly the case, there would be several other firings going on. I think we've all seen at least one "leader" in our careers (some, several) who couldn't lead a moth to an illuminated lightbulb, yet seem to not only NOT get fired, but get promoted & moved up in command positions. He was before my time in the AF (thankfully...), but from all I've read here and other places, "Doc" seems to be a good example of this. The last WG/CC here at WRI is another...

[Herk Driver]

what airframes are listed in his Bio? Pope already took it down so I can't look. That will tell you what he might have flown at the Zoo.

Right and he's got the T-43 listed, but probably from his stud time.

And Afnav, that's not a new phenomenon. He's not the only guy to list his trainer aircraft. But, the T-43 listed really doesn't tell you anything since you dont' know if it is all stud time or some IN time. But, it's possible. Really, it's the most probable way for him to have gotten command wings.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Herk Driver

[BigFreddie]

My fellow bros already jumped on you, but I feel compelled to pile on. Unless of course you can say that you were part of the 2nd at that time. But then we may have to question your judgement. Needless to say (to some), the 2nd had good leadership years from Summer 03 up until Ward.

But anyway, back to the real fun. Why does a Wing Commander get fired?

1. Breaking laws: DUI, fraternization, etc.

2. Can't follow orders

3. Can't execute the mish, fail an ORI

4. Incompetent, stupid

5. Pissed off the wrong dude (XVIII ABC/CC for example)

6. Can't lead them selves out of a paper sack

If its not one of these, well, we may never know.

Out

I've seen a OG/CC removed from his position for banging the head of OGV on base - both were married and not to each other... Same thing - those above lost faith in their ability to command. Maybe our leaders should be screened more closely if guys like this are making it that far...

Dang - I'll have the months and hours to be a command pilot by the time I leave this job... But I'll have to wait 5 or 6 more years to get to 15 total rated...

Spooky