Pope wing commander removed from duty

[Red Fox]

I knew the ex CC at Dyess AFB.

We were in the same squadron (772 TAS) and did a rote to Mildenhall in '87

(if anyone remembers, there once was a 772 TAS and rotes to Mildenhall).

Back then, he was a regular crew dog (played basketball with the rest of us, etc.).

I'm not an apologist, but moving up in the AF as a navigator is tough.

I think one gets to the point where they have invested so much time and effort into their career (sometimes while sacrificing a marriage or two) that he/she loses sight of what's important. Unfortunately, the AF fosters valuing the nitnoy. Does anyone remember renaming ATC to AETC? That was really important! Or changing MAC to AMC?

The best CCs I've experienced didn't make O-6. They either got tired of the mickey-mouse and retired or fell on their sword for something truly important (like the people in their squadron).

Tea-bagging someone's gear (unless its a friend's) is horses#*t.

This is my first post and am glad to have the forum.

Regards to all.

[Guest Lucky13]

Gossip Time! I know I'm pretty new around here, but I happened upon a very interesting story about Fun Burglar, as you all put it.. lol

Anyway (and I'm going to be vague) I was out and about in Fayetteville and met this army wife. The conversation went something like this:

Her: where are you from?

me: I'm from ******

her: oh what brings you here?

me: yada yada blah blah

her: so you're military? I wouldn't have guessed

me: ya I bla bla bla at Pope

her: so did you hear about your commander getting fired?

m: why yes I did...

h: thank god they got rid of him, he's the biggest asshole

m: Orly?

h: ya I was on Pope the day they had the symphony playing and as I was driving out with my two kids in the car some asshole was blocking traffic with his car, just chit chatting away with someone in the other lane. So I tried to pull around to get by and he ran up and motioned for me to pull over. When I stopped, he came up to the window and said "what do you think you're doing you bitch?" **her words no kidding**

so she goes on to say that she had no idea who he was, but was so irate that he just called her a bitch in front of her kids that she just drove off. As she was pulling away, he apparently smacked the side of her truck so hard that she heard the impact of his wedding band-- and it left a mark on the vehicle. Anyway, she pulls into the gate where the SPs are and tells the story. She pointed him out and they took her to file a report. few days later some 2 star (as she put it) and a LTC from JAG calls her/visits to take an additional report. She meets with them and apparently when they were all finished with their business the guy from JAG adds in that he (fun burglar) has about 5 sexual harassment cased filed against him and one of the involved a 14 year old girl. These guys even contacted her later to let her know he was being removed from his position. Don't know what else she had to do with them beyond this... we then somehow got on the subject of mormons, so there you have it.

Again, her story. Not mine, don't know how much truth there is too it. But OH. MY. GOD.

Discuss.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Lucky13

[BattleRattle]

This could get interesting very quickly...

[GoAround]

Gossip Time! When I stopped, he came up to the window and said "what do you think you're doing you bitch?" **her words no kidding**

so she goes on to say that she had no idea who he was, but was so irate that he just called her a bitch in front of her kids that she just drove off. As she was pulling away, he apparently smacked the side of her truck so hard that she heard the impact of his wedding band-- and it left a mark on the vehicle.

Discuss.

I wouldn't care if he was the wing king--if I was her husband I'd beat the sh!t out of him.

[slacker]

I wouldn't care if he was the wing king--if I was her husband I'd beat the sh!t out of him.

2. Plus, I'd be tempted to do it infront of my kids so they would understand that cussing at a lady is disrespectful and the punishment should be painful.

This guy sounds like a real fuckchop.

[itsokimapilot]

Lt Col Brown was one of the best DO's and CC's I have ever known. Col Romero was also a great CC. Long live the 2AS...

Once a Lancer always a Lancer...Praise the Load!

[Whitman]

Gossip Time! I know I'm pretty new around here, but I happened upon a very interesting story about Fun Burglar, as you all put it.. lol

Anyway (and I'm going to be vague) I was out and about in Fayetteville and met this army wife. The conversation went something like this:

Her: where are you from?

me: I'm from ******

her: oh what brings you here?

me: yada yada blah blah

her: so you're military? I wouldn't have guessed

me: ya I bla bla bla at Pope

her: so did you hear about your commander getting fired?

m: why yes I did...

h: thank god they got rid of him, he's the biggest asshole

m: Orly?

h: ya I was on Pope the day they had the symphony playing and as I was driving out with my two kids in the car some asshole was blocking traffic with his car, just chit chatting away with someone in the other lane. So I tried to pull around to get by and he ran up and motioned for me to pull over. When I stopped, he came up to the window and said "what do you think you're doing you bitch?" **her words no kidding**

so she goes on to say that she had no idea who he was, but was so irate that he just called her a bitch in front of her kids that she just drove off. As she was pulling away, he apparently smacked the side of her truck so hard that she heard the impact of his wedding band-- and it left a mark on the vehicle. Anyway, she pulls into the gate where the SPs are and tells the story. She pointed him out and they took her to file a report. few days later some 2 star (as she put it) and a LTC from JAG calls her/visits to take an additional report. She meets with them and apparently when they were all finished with their business the guy from JAG adds in that he (fun burglar) has about 5 sexual harassment cased filed against him and one of the involved a 14 year old girl. These guys even contacted her later to let her know he was being removed from his position. Don't know what else she had to do with them beyond this... we then somehow got on the subject of mormons, so there you have it.

Again, her story. Not mine, don't know how much truth there is too it. But OH. MY. GOD.

Discuss.

Ugh. O-6 lobotomy and police officer "i am the law" complex combined? YGBSM

[Stiffler]

Power corrupts....what a bag of dick.

[disgruntledemployee]

If true, I am not surprised, especially on the harassment charges. Now lets see how justice is served.

Out.

[BattleRattle]

Have any of the Pope crew dogs heard any more RUMINT on the subject?

[navonfire]

Have any of the Pope crew dogs heard any more RUMINT on the subject?

Either people actually do not know, or leadership is not sharing. Key thing with the rumors though, anything that would be a "zerp-tolerance" violation is highly unlikely due to the fact that he is still gainfully employed. He probably got judged based on a lack of progress with figuring out what the hell is going to happen post-BRAC.

[JarheadBoom]

Key thing with the rumors though, anything that would be a "zerp-tolerance" violation is highly unlikely due to the fact that he is still gainfully employed.

If you define gainfully employed as being a full-bird-Colonel "special assistant" to a Major General... then yeah, he's still gainfully employed (I'll bet that "special assistant" position isn't on 18AF's manning document...). I see it as a place to stash him while any investigations are completed, the i's are dotted, the t's are crossed, and all the paperwork is routed to the appropriate offices/agencies to kick him to the curb.

It's the same thing the Navy does to Captains who run their ships into the bottom, or other ships.

[GoAround]

If you define gainfully employed as being a full-bird-Colonel "special assistant" to a Major General... then yeah, he's still gainfully employed (I'll bet that "special assistant" position isn't on 18AF's manning document...). I see it as a place to stash him while any investigations are completed, the i's are dotted, the t's are crossed, and all the paperwork is routed to the appropriate offices/agencies to kick him to the curb.

It's the same thing the Navy does to Captains who run their ships into the bottom, or other ships.

your base commander was the "special assistant" to 18th AF/CC before she got to WRI. didn't hurt her career.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

There's a difference between being a "special assistant" like Jarheadboom is talking about, and actually being the 18AF/CC's aide-de-camp or exec. I'm willing to bet the person you are referring to (at WRI) was HIRED for the job, not put there because there wasn't really any other place to put him. By the way, I checked a couple days ago on the global, and Fun Burglar's title was McDonald, John W Col 18AF/. That's it...there's no office associated with his name.

Even when accused of "zero tolerance" crimes, the military can't just kick him out without appropriate due process, and that takes time. Look at the other thread regarding the DADT stuff with the gay Strike Eagle WSO...that's been going on now for a year. OSI must investigate properly, statements need to be taken, evidence examined, then it's got to go through all the legal JAG wickets before there's ever any kind of Article 32 hearing.

In the meantime, what better place for a NAF commander to keep a suspected offender than right in his own office, on a short leash?

[budderbar]

From today's Air Force Times.

"POPE WING COMMANDER REMOVED

A wing commander lost his job June 12.

Col. John W. McDonald, commander of the 43rd Airlift Wing at Pope Air Force Base, N.C., was removed because he no longer had the confidence of his chain of command, according to a spokesman for Air Mobility Command. Taking over the 43rd is Col. James C. Johnson, who had been serving as vice commander of the 19th Airlift Wing at Little Rock Air Force Base, Ark. The 19th, like the 43rd, flies C-130s. McDonald does not face additional disci­plinary action, the AMC spokesman said. He was reassigned as a special assistant to the commander of the 18th Air Force at Scott Air Force Base, Ill. An AMC statement did not explain what led to McDonald’s dismissal. A person familiar with the case said McDonald and an Army wife got into an argument in a parking lot that was witnessed by several people. The incident prompted an Army investigation; the results were turned over to the Air Force."

So basically he pissed in the wrong spouses club member's cheerios! but I'm sure there were other small insignificant issues that would have normally gone un-punished and this incident just broke the "camels back".

EDITED: I added the bold in the story above, and there is no link because it's from the electronic copy of the actual paper. The article is on page 7 of the times.

Edited June 22, 2009 by budderbar

[Guest whyme?]

From today's Air Force Times.

"POPE WING COMMANDER REMOVED

A wing commander lost his job June 12.

Col. John W. McDonald, commander of the 43rd Airlift Wing at Pope Air Force Base, N.C., was removed because he no longer had the confidence of his chain of command, according to a spokesman for Air Mobility Command. Taking over the 43rd is Col. James C. Johnson, who had been serving as vice commander of the 19th Airlift Wing at Little Rock Air Force Base, Ark. The 19th, like the 43rd, flies C-130s. McDonald does not face additional disci­plinary action, the AMC spokesman said. He was reassigned as a special assistant to the commander of the 18th Air Force at Scott Air Force Base, Ill. An AMC statement did not explain what led to McDonald’s dismissal. A person familiar with the case said McDonald and an Army wife got into an argument in a parking lot that was witnessed by several people. The incident prompted an Army investigation; the results were turned over to the Air Force."

So basically he pissed in the wrong spouses club member's cheerios! but I'm sure there were other small insignificant issues that would have normally gone un-punished and this incident just broke the "camels back".

EDITED: I added the bold in the story above, and there is no link because it's from the electronic copy of the actual paper. The article is on page 7 of the times.

So the chick in lucky13's post got his ass canned? Cool beans. Looks like our spouses need to get these DB's road rage up.

[Guest Lucky13]

<--- Providing the highest quality shit talk.

[Guest Smoke_Jaguar4]

<--- Providing the highest quality shit talk.

for the good RUMINT

[JarheadBoom]

your base commander was the "special assistant" to 18th AF/CC before she got to WRI. didn't hurt her career.

I don't see 18AF mentioned anywhere in her bio.

I'm no genius, but I am fairly confident that the first commander of a brand-new ABW (who also is the first commander of the first Joint Base in DoD) isn't gonna be someone who was removed from their last job for cause.

There's a vast difference between a Special Assistant position that exists on a unit's manning document, and a "special assistant" position that is suddenly created from thin air (and does NOT appear on the manning document) after someone has screwed the pooch, and has to be stashed somewhere while the paperwork is done.

[GoAround]

I don't see 18AF mentioned anywhere in her bio.

I'm no genius, but I am fairly confident that the first commander of a brand-new ABW (who also is the first commander of the first Joint Base in DoD) isn't gonna be someone who was removed from their last job for cause.

There's a vast difference between a Special Assistant position that exists on a unit's manning document, and a "special assistant" position that is suddenly created from thin air (and does NOT appear on the manning document) after someone has screwed the pooch, and has to be stashed somewhere while the paperwork is done.

you're right sweaty. it probably doesn't show up b/c it's a made up position.

[amcflyboy]

From today's Air Force Times.

"POPE WING COMMANDER REMOVED

A wing commander lost his job June 12.

Col. John W. McDonald, commander of the 43rd Airlift Wing at Pope Air Force Base, N.C., was removed because he no longer had the confidence of his chain of command, according to a spokesman for Air Mobility Command. Taking over the 43rd is Col. James C. Johnson, who had been serving as vice commander of the 19th Airlift Wing at Little Rock Air Force Base, Ark. The 19th, like the 43rd, flies C-130s. McDonald does not face additional disci­plinary action, the AMC spokesman said. He was reassigned as a special assistant to the commander of the 18th Air Force at Scott Air Force Base, Ill. An AMC statement did not explain what led to McDonald’s dismissal. A person familiar with the case said McDonald and an Army wife got into an argument in a parking lot that was witnessed by several people. The incident prompted an Army investigation; the results were turned over to the Air Force."

So basically he pissed in the wrong spouses club member's cheerios! but I'm sure there were other small insignificant issues that would have normally gone un-punished and this incident just broke the "camels back".

EDITED: I added the bold in the story above, and there is no link because it's from the electronic copy of the actual paper. The article is on page 7 of the times.

Sometimes, that's all you need.

[capt4fans]

Sometimes, that's all you need.

Good things come in small packages........and by good I mean great things for Pope.

<--- Providing the highest quality shit talk.

Lucky.....thanks for the rumor mill.......great fodder.....and apparently very true.

[budderbar]

<--- Providing the highest quality shit talk.

It would be hilarious if the Air Force times is using your RUMINT in their story.

[Red Fox]

I must say, in my opinion Capt4fans, has by far the best avatar.

As I've written previously, I was in the same squadron (772 TAS) with the Pope CC. I can't imagine the John McDonald I knew 20 years ago behaving or doing the things I've read about in this forum. I guess I didn't know him well enough or time/command changes a person or both.

I will say that Col McDonald may have had an example set for him early in his career. There was a wing commander at Dyess (then the 463 TAW) who trashed his office when he found out he didn't make BG. His wife was called to calm him down. This same commander, when flying a local, expected the engines to be running and the aircraft taxied as closely as possible to wherever he might be on base at the time (wing HQ, base ops, etc.). One day, he showed at the plane wearing his blues with flight gloves. On another day, the seeing-eye IP didn't taxi the plane to the expected location (some kind of mix-up with command post). This CC was livid and as retribution wrote "Intentionally left blank" in the additional endorser section of this IP's OPR (called an OER back then). When I arrived at Dyess, this CC was gone, so I only heard the stories and met aviators that had their OPR's downgraded by him. One older pilot told me that the commander didn't get what he wanted (BG) was mad and "took down as many people as he could" before he left. I believe this particular commander was Col McDonald's first operational CC. Our squadron CC at that time was a low flight time, fast mover who seemed more concerned about wearing a scarf properly than flying ability. Another example for Col McDonald. We also had an OG/CC (then called the DO) and our squadron DO execute an emergency ground egress without shutting-down the engines. So I would say at Dyess, the focus was not on the flying, but on the nit-noy. One made rank or was recognized more for being an executive officer than for flying skill. Many of our better pilots were career Captains. I think this was inherent in MAC and is now in AMC. We also had a wing CC who was attempting to burn through our training hours prior to the end of fiscal year. He had current operations create and schedule an over-water nav trainer to Bermuda in which he flew himself and his family. This "crap" goes on way too much. It did 20 years ago, still does, and sets a bad example for future leaders. Until commanders are held responsible for their behavior, it will continue. While I feel badly for the John McDonald I knew 20 years ago, I'm glad to see a bad commander removed.

On a different subject, my father flew F-105s in Vietnam with the 388th TFW in Korat. He was shot down and captured in Jun '67. If one wants to read about real leaders, read about some of the F-105 commanders. There were BG's flying combat missions. In one 6-month period, the 388th at Korat lost its Wing CC, Wing CV, and Wing DO (if my memory serves me well). If you want to read about one helluva squadron CC, read the bio about and by Lt Col Robert Smith of the 34th TFS. You can find it if you google him or the 34 TFS at Korat AB, F-105 website. He was the kind of commander I would like to have served under. I had the pleasure of meeting him and Lt Gen Spence Armstrong (another hero in my mind) when I took my dad to an F-105 reunion. Another squadron commander lasted only two weeks before he was KIA. He was inexperienced in the F-105 and had been a below the zone staff officer type and died while leading a formation of F-105s in combat. I could write volumes about these kind of men. Unfortunately, it wouldn't include any recent commanders. I know this last bit digresses from the topic, but thought it would interest others.

[slacker]

Freaks beget freaks. 20 years from now, crewdogs will be bitching about some asshole commander. That future commander learned all he knew from Col McDonald as a young captain and thought Col McDonald got screwed.

It’s a never ending cycle- The circle of freakdom.

Welcome to the board Red Fox.