ClearedHot Posted December 15, 2013 Posted December 15, 2013 I get the high wing, but engines on the bottom? Not an A-10 Groupie (obviously we all know the AC-130 is the worlds best CAS platform), but a lot of survivability thought went into the Hawg, engines located high on the tail, exhaust partially obstructed by the tail. This thing looks fragile.
Marlboro BLACK Posted December 15, 2013 Posted December 15, 2013 It's ugly as sin, thus it would make a perfect replacement for the hawg regardless of capabilities. It needs a gun. Can that thing even carry a gun? Not to talk of mavericks, a couple o' rocket pods, and a few 5-hundos? Call me old fashioned but NOTHING in that video even remotely portrays that this Scorpion POS can even begin to replace the capability that is this: Yeah yeah yeah, the hawg is not the end-all-be-all of CAS....... and I know we are talking "light attack" here .......... but for f*ck's sake, Really? Just sayin' 1 1
busdriver Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 5-hundos? What are you 12 years old? Of course he's not serious. It does look odd though, not quite scaled composites odd but still not quite right. The internal bay thing is interesting however. 1
ElLoco Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Yeah yeah yeah, the hawg is not the end-all-be-all of CAS....... and I know we are talking "light attack" here .......... but for f*ck's sake, Really? Just sayin' Yes, really...100% serious....waaambulance inbound.
Clark Griswold Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 L-159 Advanced Light Combat Aircraft CAS, COIN, Light Strike and more survivable than the turboprops.
TrainerModel Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 L-159 Advanced Light Combat Aircraft CAS, COIN, Light Strike and more survivable than the turboprops. ...and 30 min on station Unless a jet is AR capable, its useless overhead anything in my book
OverTQ Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 As a Army guy with time in guns, I have to disagree with you LM. As one of the few trained FAC(A) guys in our world in the day, there was a big difference between what a A10 was going to do verses what a fast mover was going to do. They are different tools. They have different capabilities. The A10 is hard to replace and I for one would not want to. Full disclosure is I also worked on them as a E in the AF so I may not be completely impartial. But from stand point of CAS, A10's any day. So how do you feel about losing the OH58 LM?
Clark Griswold Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 ...and 30 min on station Unless a jet is AR capable, its useless overhead anything in my book Yep, it does not have the longest legs but that could be fixed, Conformal Fuel Tank. More money, but fixable. The Scorpion lists 150 NM to station - 5 hours on station - 150 NM home with a reserve so it may be the answer. LAAR Requirements: Rough field operations. Defensive package. Armored cockpit and engine. Long loiter time. The aircraft must be able to fly 5 hour sorties (with 30 minute fuel reserves). Range. The aircraft must have a 900 nautical mile (1600 km) ferry range. Data link capability. Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) capabilities. Weaponry. Looking at all of them and considering the financially austere future, I think it makes more sense to look at light jets for LAAR. The turboprops are good in uncontested airspace but once there is a significant threat they may need to be pulled back from the FEBA / AOR. If we decide to purchase more than a few for Partner Capacity Building training mission, we'll need an asset that can take part (realistically) in a conventional campaign also. Light combat jets like the L-159, Scorpion, M-346, etc.. seem to be a better overall investment than the pure COIN aircraft like a A-29 or AT-6. Be good at several missions rather perfect in only one.
TrainerModel Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Big picture: The Air Force is no way in hell going to start an acquisition program for a field a "light attack/cas/whatever" platform. Lets get real, all this debate is moot.
Clark Griswold Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Big picture: The Air Force is no way in hell going to start an acquisition program for a field a "light attack/cas/whatever" platform. Lets get real, all this debate is moot. Yep, the odds are somewhere between not in a million years and not ever ever going to happen.. but interesting none the less... My two $0.02, the LAAR would be a good mission for the Guard/Reserve. Keep the planes and aircrew qual'd and current, break the glass and spin up when needed.
Lawman Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) So how do you feel about losing the OH58 LM? That we are ######ing up if we think replacing a 6 million dollar light scout mission with 40 million dollar E model gunships is gonna somehow be cheaper in the long run. The cost per hour alone don't make any sense. Either way ground force commanders are gonna want iron in the air all day long. If you have to do it with more expensive aircraft it doesn't take a genius to determine what will happen. Edit. Anybody making that comparison for A-10 being axed though remember your talking about using multiple multirole that already exist or are in development picking up a specific mission and putting it into the toolbox. The Apache/Kiowa situation would be more akin to somebody saying hey lets ground the 130s and just use C5s to move all our Cargo. Edited December 24, 2013 by Lawman
Spur38 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Lawman's #481 post hit the target! Back in the old days we Cobra pilots were creaming in our jeans thinking that the Hog was on the horizon for the Cav. Great article and commentary assessment in this week's AW&ST by Bill Sweetman: "Making Bacon" Warthogs on the chopping block. Sweetman really stated an excellent and objective viewpoint....also noting that only one aviator in the last 30 years chaired the JCS...
pbar Posted December 23, 2013 Posted December 23, 2013 https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/finding-strategic-balance Long article but points out the folly of using our high-end assets in Afghanistan-type operations instead of LAAR. Astounds me that the AF can't figure that out but I guess buying LAARs would be a threat to the F-35...
Majestik Møøse Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 How bout we just buy 1% less F-35s and use that money to keep flying the A-10? 1
Clark Griswold Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 How bout we just buy 1% less F-35s and use that money to keep flying the A-10? No way, it's all good... 2
albertschu Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 The Scorpion Flies Kind of impressive that it went from the drawing board to its first flight in just under two years. And yet it is still a decade late to need. the Scorpion compares very favorably to more costly aircraft currently used for low-threat missions. 1
Marco Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 FOB Cannon No Mo' https://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2014-06-25/story/afghani-pilots-train-moody-afb
Clark Griswold Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/iraq-issues-rfp-for-coin-aircraft-03281/ Iraqis want the AT-6 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited June 27, 2014 by Clark Griswold
Clark Griswold Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Iraqis need to get their shit together first. True dat A delivery of 50 or so would be a good piece of a security assistance package to prevent collapse but you would have to dangle that carrot with some significant conditions for political reconciliation (if that is possible now) As to the aircraft and the ability of the USAF to talk about a LAAR for umpteen and not do anything - standard Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ClearedHot Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/finding-strategic-balance Long article but points out the folly of using our high-end assets in Afghanistan-type operations instead of LAAR. Astounds me that the AF can't figure that out but I guess buying LAARs would be a threat to the F-35... Pete is a good friend of mine. he writes on a range of topics with a heavy emphasis on space. If you want to read more check out this link.
Tank Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/iraq-issues-rfp-for-coin-aircraft-03281/ Iraqis want the AT-6 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk With all their pilot training in the C-172, C-208 and AT-6 possibly conducted in Jordan.
jrobe Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 I'm sure ISIS wants AT-6s as well Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! 1
StoleIt Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 I'm sure ISIS wants AT-6s as well Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! 1
Clark Griswold Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 The Amazing OV-10 Bronco Was Never Allowed To Meet Its Full Potential Good article on what could have been with a video on the YOV-10D NOGS
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