Short tour info

[Guest vbguy01]

Anyone know of any short tour (365 day) locations, flying or otherwise besides Korea?

[Guest Hueypilot812]

AFPC has an expeditionary web page that has a listing of available 365-day extended deployments. Check there...lots of positions available for both rated (flying) and non-flying jobs. Most are either CAFTT (Iraq advisor mission) or CAPTF (Afghanistan advising mission) jobs.

[Toro]

Depends on your background. The C-12s are gone from Korea, but there's still fighters at Osan & Kunsan

F-15s and C-12s at Saudi under USMTM, as well as a lot of non-flying jobs that receive credit as staff and joint.

There is a huge difference between a short tour and a 365, namely two more weeks of leave for a short tour.

Saudi gives a month.

[Guest cheap]

Is there a non-concurrent amount of overseas TDY days that can add up to a short tour? If so, is there a cumulative timeframe limit for said TDYs?

[stract]

yes and yes. It's on the AFPC website somewhere.

[HossHarris]

Anyone know of any short tour (365 day) locations, flying or otherwise besides Korea?

All sorts of Viper ETSS gigs .. Egypt, Poland, UAE, etc.

(live like a king, work sucks though)

[ViperStud]

Bump.

Currently on a 120 and I have been asked to extend to 180+ for continuity with leadership's guarantee that I can knock out a short. My replacement's new RDD will ensure I get >185 days. Anyway my guys back home said yes but are concerned about the WOMs they've heard of dudes on ALO tours that have had ~189 days and not get short tour credit. Persco and support SQ/CC out here are saying that if I get 180+ there is nothing they can do to keep me from getting short credit back home...

Any verified stories of guys spending 182-190ish days and not getting short tour credit? What was the issue?

Where is the reg or policy letter that states that 180+ qualifies as a short, haven't been able to track it down in the 36-series? It helps to be armed when going up against the MPF.

Any advice to make sure all squares get filled and I don't get fooked?

[nunya]

Is there a non-concurrent amount of overseas TDY days that can add up to a short tour? If so, is there a cumulative timeframe limit for said TDYs?

300 in 18 months. 548 in 3 years. Must be overseas of course.

Where is the reg or policy letter that states that 180+ qualifies as a short, haven't been able to track it down in the 36-series? It helps to be armed when going up against the MPF.

I got mine for non-consecutive TDYs with no hassle whatsoever from MPF.

Table 3.5 of AFI 36-2110 is what you're looking for.

[backseatdriver]

Why does 548 in a 3 year period count for a short tour and 365 in a 3 year period count for a long tour? That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. Can anyone explain the reasoning?

[nunya]

Short tours are more beneficial to the member, so they're more difficult to get. The names seem backwards for that case, but shorts are usually shorter than longs.

[SuperWSO]

Bump.

Currently on a 120 and I have been asked to extend to 180+ for continuity with leadership's guarantee that I can knock out a short. My replacement's new RDD will ensure I get >185 days. Anyway my guys back home said yes but are concerned about the WOMs they've heard of dudes on ALO tours that have had ~189 days and not get short tour credit. Persco and support SQ/CC out here are saying that if I get 180+ there is nothing they can do to keep me from getting short credit back home...

Any verified stories of guys spending 182-190ish days and not getting short tour credit? What was the issue?

Where is the reg or policy letter that states that 180+ qualifies as a short, haven't been able to track it down in the 36-series? It helps to be armed when going up against the MPF.

Any advice to make sure all squares get filled and I don't get fooked?

The same WOM was floating around when I did my last deployment in 2008. It was scheduled for 179, but I knew guys getting tagged again inside of 12 months. My replacement was delayed and I was in theater for 200 days. Everything I have ever seen still indicates 181+ is a short tour and will reset your return from overseas date. It worked in my case.

Edit: the one trick is to take your paid travel voucher over to MPF to get your overseas return date reset. It doesn't happen automatically.

Edited July 10, 2010 by SuperWSO

[Kikuchiyo]

In the table referenced by nunya, Row 16 says:

(If) Deployed to a hostile fire/imminent danger pay zone any time after 11 Sep 2001 until present...

(For) 181 consecutive days or more...

(Then) Give Airman credit for a completed short tour and award new ODSD and STRD to equal date of return from TDY.

Edit: the one trick is to take your paid travel voucher over to MPF to get your overseas return date reset. It doesn't happen automatically.

And note 5 from the table says:

5. The only source document to be used to validate OS TDY is a copy of the paid travel voucher for each TDY claimed.

[ViperStud]

In the table referenced by nunya, Row 16 says:

(If) Deployed to a hostile fire/imminent danger pay zone any time after 11 Sep 2001 until present...

(For) 181 consecutive days or more...

(Then) Give Airman credit for a completed short tour and award new ODSD and STRD to equal date of return from TDY.

And note 5 from the table says:

5. The only source document to be used to validate OS TDY is a copy of the paid travel voucher for each TDY claimed.

Yep found the same source data. Persco is saying that because it was originally a 120, and the ULN changes at the 120 day mark (when my replacement should arrive), then they are treated as separate TDYS. Since the ULN changes overnight, the clock restarts at zero days. Their call to AFPC confirmed this. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. I go to sleep and wake up in the same deployed place but the counter for a short tour resets because I "volunteered" to stay for consecutive 120s with different ULNs. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. The man is always looking for a way to keep you down...

[Guest Alarm Red]

Yep found the same source data. Persco is saying that because it was originally a 120, and the ULN changes at the 120 day mark (when my replacement should arrive), then they are treated as separate TDYS. Since the ULN changes overnight, the clock restarts at zero days. Their call to AFPC confirmed this. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. I go to sleep and wake up in the same deployed place but the counter for a short tour resets because I "volunteered" to stay for consecutive 120s with different ULNs. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. The man is always looking for a way to keep you down...

I find this extremely suspect. PERSCO has somewhere between zero and nothing to do with awarding short tour credit. The only way I can see this even remotely possible is if for Big Blue's accounting purposes they view it on their books as separate deployments, neither of which add up to a short tour. Even if that's the case, there is nothing on your paid travel voucher that shows MPF what ULN you are filling. Hell, you can even come back CONUS (emergency leave, TDYs, etc) then go back to the AOR and resume your countdown and still get the credit.

I used to hear the rumors that the USAF tracks this closely and will shepherd you on a plane to make sure you're gone at 179. Maybe for some units as a whole, but for an individual billet, it's total utter fiction.

[abmwaldo]

I used to hear the rumors that the USAF tracks this closely and will shepherd you on a plane to make sure you're gone at 179. Maybe for some units as a whole, but for an individual billet, it's total utter fiction.

Worked just fine for me last year in OEF; as a single billet there wasn't any oversight. No issues when I took my paid travel voucher to MPF and short tour was awarded on the spot.

[Guest Crew Report]

Yep found the same source data. Persco is saying that because it was originally a 120, and the ULN changes at the 120 day mark (when my replacement should arrive), then they are treated as separate TDYS. Since the ULN changes overnight, the clock restarts at zero days. Their call to AFPC confirmed this. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. I go to sleep and wake up in the same deployed place but the counter for a short tour resets because I "volunteered" to stay for consecutive 120s with different ULNs. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. The man is always looking for a way to keep you down...

The top right of your CED orders have "variation authorized." If the ULN changes or not that's a moot point, you're still in country collecting HDP/HFP. I had a deployment to Ali Al Salem in '05, I ended up spending half of it in Balad. I was awarded the OIF campaign medal.

Variations Authorized

[ChkHandleDn]

I'm trying to get some info/differentiate between overseas short tours, long tours, remotes, and deployments such as CAOC tours. What are the differences between them? I'm browsing the AFI nunya posted and am under the impression that a short tour is one that is generally unaccompanied and less than 365 but can also be 18 months. And a long tour is any location accompanied or unaccompanied for 365+? These can either be flying and non flying right?

What generally drives the requirement to do a short or long tour? Are they mostly volunteer, or are people voluntold? What about the CAOC? Is that one of those mandatory check boxes in order to stay in? Also, does an overseas assignment to somewhere like Kadena count the same as any other long overseas or remote tour? Are all of these "highly recommended" at some point in the aviation career, meaning if you don't volunteer for them at least once in your career you can count on getting stuck with one later on? Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edited November 10, 2010 by Mi Scusi!

[Vertigo]

Also, does an overseas assignment to somewhere like Kadena count the same as any other long overseas or remote tour?

Yes - it counts as an overseas long. Not a remote. A remote would be a year tour in Korea, for example.

Are all of these "highly recommended" at some point in the aviation career, meaning if you don't volunteer for them at least once in your career you can count on getting stuck with one later on?

Yes

Edited November 11, 2010 by Vertigo

[Smokin]

Short tour stuff, especially trying to learn from the AFIs, can get confusing quickly. Read relevant posts here and look around on the AFPC website. Assignments to Korea are pretty much all remote short tours. But if you get assigned to Osan, you could get command sponsorship for your spouse (permission to bring your family over). The 'standard' remote tour is one year but you can extend in six month or one year increments. However, if you extend all the way to three years, you will not get credit for a short tour. Depending on your airframe or job, you will probably have a short tour at some point in your career, so many volunteer in order to choose when/where they go. However, realize that if you volunteer straight out of training (can be a good idea), you may get voluntold for a second tour down the road. The number of volunteers you will find at a given short tour will depend greatly on how good or bad of a deal it is. Flying assignment in Korea - probably 100% volunteers. Coffee bitch at the Died - probably not.

[sigmanugary]

My two cents...

I did a 179er to Iraq and made sure to stay in theater a few extra days to get my Short Tour credit (185). It worked, I just brought my paid travel voucher to my MPF office and bam. I didn't say crap about it to my leadership and it is on my vMPF page with 7 months served in Iraq. The ribbon updated instantly (not that I care but I was amazed at how easy the process was). Also, I didn't have any issues with staying in theater longer, I worked for the Navy so what we call a Short Tour they call that just part of the job. The comment above about dudes volunteering for the 'Deid to avoid the actual AOR is shameful, we have too many "toy soldiers" as is...what a joke!

Edited November 13, 2010 by sigmanugary

[ChkHandleDn]

Coincidentally, our Sq/CC talked about all of this stuff yesterday. Good info!

My two cents...

The comment above about dudes volunteering for the 'Deid to avoid the actual AOR is shameful, we have too many "toy soldiers" as is...what a joke!

Speaking of this, our boss also said that people that are getting voluntold to do a 365 are now doing the 3-day option and separating at 18 years of service, causing AFPC to consider doing away with the 3-day option entirely. I guess for anyone planning on doing their twenty, a 365 will be a requirement in the very near future.

[Jaded]

If you're serving a 200 day TDY in the AOR, can your commander eliminate the short tour credit by sending you TDY outside of the AOR for a week? This would make the 181+ days non-consecutive.

Notes I see are this: "2. AIRMEN REQUIRED TO DEPART THE TDY LOCATION FOR SHORT PERIODS DUE TO MISSION REQUIREMENTS SUCH AS AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE, WILL CONTINUE TO ACCUMULATE TDY CREDIT TOWARD THE 181 CONSECUTIVE DAY MINIMUM. HOWEVER, PERIODS SERVED OUT OF THE DESIGNATED LOCATION WILL NOT COUNT TOWARD THE 181 DAY REQUIREMENT. THE ACCUMULATION WILL RESUME UPON THE MEMBERS RETURN TO THE TDY LOCATION." - From AWARD OF PCS SHORT TOUR CREDIT FOR TDY (SUPERSEDES AL 8106 171955Z JUN 03 MESSAGE)

How do you know if MPF will consider said TDY a "Mission requirement"?

[Guest Scooby]

My two cents...

I did a 179er to Iraq and made sure to stay in theater a few extra days to get my Short Tour credit (185). It worked, I just brought my paid travel voucher to my MPF office and bam. I didn't say crap about it to my leadership and it is on my vMPF page with 7 months served in Iraq. The ribbon updated instantly (not that I care but I was amazed at how easy the process was). Also, I didn't have any issues with staying in theater longer, I worked for the Navy so what we call a Short Tour they call that just part of the job. The comment above about dudes volunteering for the 'Deid to avoid the actual AOR is shameful, we have too many "toy soldiers" as is...what a joke!

Word on the street is that AFPC is raising the short tour requirement just for situations like that. I keep hearing different numbers (215 days, 250 days, etc.) but with the standard AF deployment finally being raised to 179 days, AFPC is tired of people staying a few extra days to get short tour credit. If you're in an AF billet they usually kicked you out prior to 180 days but the other services (and especially NATO) couldn't care less about AF policies so they're usually OK with people staying a few days later to get credit.

A couple of my friends have done this and while I'm happy for them, I'm pissed that the system can be gamed like that. Short tours are huge in the LRO world with the expectation that we'll do approx 6 in our careers (including 365s). To hear that people are getting short tour credit despite not doing anything close to a short tour is annoying because it just screws everyone else over. Glad to see that AFPC will be fixing this in the near future...

[Skitzo]

Why is the short tour discriminator out there? Now with them changing the rules of what a short tour is will previous short tours still count? How about we just use days deployed / contingency as a discriminator until these wars are behind us for 10+ years.

This way the d bag who has been deployed for precisely 185 days in his 15-17 years of service gets tagged for the 365 instead of the crew dog who has in excess of 4 years deployed for the same amount of time in service just doesn't have the short tour.

[Guest Scooby]

Why is the short tour discriminator out there? Now with them changing the rules of what a short tour is will previous short tours still count? How about we just use days deployed / contingency as a discriminator until these wars are behind us for 10+ years.

This way the d bag who has been deployed for precisely 185 days in his 15-17 years of service gets tagged for the 365 instead of the crew dog who has in excess of 4 years deployed for the same amount of time in service just doesn't have the short tour.

Don't quote me on this but I'm fairly certain that you can get ST credit that way. There's the consecutive days served ST credit and then I believe there is also credit for serving a certain amount of days within a specific time frame. I'm not positive but I think I've heard something like that.