The Officers Club

[SocialD]

A few weeks ago, the Club here at Luke suspended food service indefinitely. Rumor is that they had some health code violations. A buddy of mine last week went in to cancel his membership and get a refund since they weren't holding up their end of the deal (ie he can't get discounts on food they aren't serving). Not sure what came of it though.

You'd think at a base with 7 Fighter Squadrons they'd be able to run a decent club.

That bar was terrible. Aside from mandatory fun, I only went there once, for my graduation...

[Herk Driver]

FYI, the O-Club at a certain South Texas UPT base is now charging all non-club members $5 to get into each drop night...including the studs that are dropping...who are forced to have their drop at the O-Club...who just spent $400 on two kegs and food....which could only be purchased from the club. UFB.

It's gonna be dead tomorrow night.

no one showing up will be a good start.

Don't buy beer or have food. Go get your drop, leave as soon as possible...either have your class or have another class throw a party complete with booze at an off-base location. Vote with your feet and your money.

Edit: grammer

Edited July 30, 2010 by Herk Driver

[BADFNZ]

Is there something contractually that states you HAVE to have your drop at the Club? Why not rent out Rudy's or Club Arriba, pay the AV dude to hook up his projector, and buy a couple kegs at a normal price?

[WHAP]

Its funny to see things change, just a few years ago at a certain base in southwest texas the WG/CC mandated the club stayed open until the last people were done drinking, and that WG/CC went on to get his first star.

[Guest Alarm Red]

That bar was terrible. Aside from mandatory fun, I only went there once, for my graduation...

Luke collocated the club not too long ago, the old one was sitting vacant last I heard. The old club used to be rockin' in the afternoons, and a great place to preload, but last time I was through there (but before they collocated) it was completely dead on a Friday afternoon.

As much as I want to blame leadership, look at CONUS clubs across the board. In my opinion, it's a culture shift, somewhat driven by ops tempo, but also the demographic. My B-course was 13 active duty lieutenants and only three were married. I can't remember the last time a single lieutenant showed up in my current squadron.

EDIT: My UPT base (Vance), when it was the old club, was always packed. Nobody bitched about joining either (although in no case is it right to compel someone to join).

Edited July 30, 2010 by Alarm Red

[Truman08]

Is there something contractually that states you HAVE to have your drop at the Club? Why not rent out Rudy's or Club Arriba, pay the AV dude to hook up his projector, and buy a couple kegs at a normal price?

EDIT: Grammar

It may not be written in a contract somewhere that the drop has to be at the O'Club, but higher-up leadership states that you must have it there. They also mandate that you buy at least 2 kegs directly from the Club at a crazy expensive price as opposed to buying it at the Class 6 and bringing it over. Our class got hosed with ''mandatory'' graduation expenses that were required for us to purchase from the club.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Truman08

[XL0901]

Not quite 2 years ago...

We bought our 2 kegs, the min food, and as soon as our last stud got their assignment, filed in to cars and headed to the Del Rio (I said it) Country Club for the cheaper beer and folks that actually wanted our business. Best thing we could have done. Our class, friends, family and IPs hanging out with no riff raff and no drama from leadership. Thought the trend would take but I guess not. I hated that club and the new manager than ran it.

[Muscle2002]

EDIT: Grammar

It may not be written in a contract somewhere that the drop has to be at the O'Club, but higher-up leadership states that you must have it there. They also mandate that you buy at least 2 kegs directly from the Club at a crazy expensive price as opposed to buying it at the Class 6 and bringing it over. Our class got hosed with ''mandatory'' graduation expenses that were required for us to purchase from the club.

It was the same way at Sheppard for a while (circa 2003/2004) until enough rational arguments against the O'Club racket carried the day.

[SocialD]

Luke collocated the club not too long ago, the old one was sitting vacant last I heard. The old club used to be rockin' in the afternoons, and a great place to preload, but last time I was through there (but before they collocated) it was completely dead on a Friday afternoon.

It was still the same when I went through (prior to collocation). Why even go there when you can drive 4 miles down the road and be at West Gate. The beer is the same price and there are hot girls everywhere!

[sky_king]

The "certain SW Texas UPT base" canceled their $5 per head cover charge for drop nights. Apparently, too many studs threatened to not attend on principle.

[AZwildcat]

The "certain SW Texas UPT base" canceled their $5 per head cover charge for drop nights. Apparently, too many studs threatened to not attend on principle.

Now it's $3 for non-members and you get a different color wristband so all the leadership can give you shit about it...lovely. Our drop night they tried to stiff us out of 2 kegs we had paid for by claiming we canceled the order. After we shoved the contract in their face they finally brought out the beer. $160 for a keg of piss beer, YGBFSM! Don't even get me started on the graduation dinners. The place is a rip off and the service sucks. Word has it they're working on a big remodel so maybe things will improve. IMHO you need to improve your product first and then people will come.

Edit: Spelling

Edited September 27, 2010 by AZwildcat

[nrodgsxr]

Cancelled my membership last year.. I will never renew.. so lame

[Prosuper]

All your arguements about the Oclubs are the same on the enlisted side, the NCO clubs stateside were a place you can have a beer and tell your boss your a A$$&*le while you are buying a round during all girl swimsuit review . Being forced to use clubs for ALS graduations, Pin Ons Etc with crappy service bad food and over priced beer are the norm. Got so bad if you wanted a Senior rated endorser on your EPR you had to be a club member. What made it change to crap. MADD (Mothers against drunk driving)and then the infamous Navy Tailhook party in Vegas just after Desert Storm. With so many drunk driving incidents in the civilian world and most if not all states going to a 21 age limit to drink it cut drastically into the bottom line and attitude at clubs. 18 year old E's no longer allowed to drink and if caught with a beer in their fridge in the dorm was a automatic Art 15 which put all partying off base. Senior E's getting busted walking out the club after 2 beers by a pissed off 18 year old cop having their careers destroyed. Getting the stink eye when at a function at the club you pop the cap on your second bottle of beer. The clubs used to be a place you possibly could get laid with a large portion of the civilian female population allowed to frequent the club, if any of the KC-135A grey beards remember the Galaxy at Mildenhall prior to 9/11. I am the GodFather of alot of kids because of that place. Going back to when I was Tech school at Sheppard 1980, the Airmans club there was one of the biggest buyers of beer in the state of Texas. I guess now it is as exciting as 9pm in Toledo Ohio.

[contraildash]

Two stories. One awesome, one sad.

Awesome: My stepmom was a young 2Lt at Luke back in the early 80's and told us the club was awesome. Said they brought in strippers. 'nough said.

Sad: At my UPT base, Vance, I sat casual for 6 months in the MSG. I can say with certainty that the club (at that time, and no doubt now) was a financial Titanic. The only thing keeping it afloat were the drops every three weeks. If they didn't make purchase of beer/food through them mandatory, they would fold.

The two big reasons no one wants party there: sausage-fest and folks were more afraid of drinking on base than off base. Sounds like a common theme these days.

Solutions (it's been said before):

Import local talent

Cheap booze/food

Get some entertainment, local bands, ect.

Allow taxi/shuttle service on base (this varies from what I've seen from gate service to anywhere on base)

[Skyclops]

I'll have to stick up for the XL O-club; its probably the best I've come across. Its a pilot-heavy base in the middle of nowhere with little local talent, so it doesn't have much competition. Other than the fees for drop-nights, its actually pretty good and usually is packed on Fridays. Drop nights, even with the fees, are especially packed to the point where it takes forever to get drinks even with 2 bars open. Leadership on base over the last year also has done a lot to make the O-Club closer to what they were like when they were LTs, and many of the squadron commanders and wing leadership are there Friday pushing it up with studs and FAIPs. A certain group/cc may not have done a keg stand one night ;). That certainly wasn't the case when I first got here, by the way. The place sucked, but it was renovated and since has been doing pretty well.

Not saying its the best in the country nor as good as the O-Clubs of the past. Doesn't make up for living in Del Rio, but the booze helps.

[theSituation]

I want to start by saying that I'm a new guy in the AF and I dont know much, but down here in Pensacola the Oclub isn't all that bad. I mean, it sure as hell isn't as exciting as it sounds like it has been in the past, or even could be today. However, many of us CSO studs show up for a few beers on Friday night after work/class. It's definitely a great place to get the night started before going downtown and it's a good way for us to hang out with people in other classes. Also, the Air Force takes that place over. There are very rarely any of the Navy/Marine studs who stay past 7 on a Friday. I think thats a good sign.

That being said, it could be better. I'm not really looking forward to going to an actual AF base and (not) dealing with the clubs there. From what I gather in the flying world, it's all about squadron bars and hanging with the bros you actually work with on a day to day basis.

[HiFlyer]

There are two problems that have doomed the club system over the last few decades. First, as mentioned above, is the change in the social habits of the piopulation combined with the PC/risk-intolerent behavior of the senior leadership. The other major issue is related, once again, to our friends in Congress. In the late 80s they decided that it was "unfair" for the taxpayers to help sustain the quality of life of the military, and removed all appropriated funding from the entire NAF system. While before they "provided" a building and utilities, the new law required the facilities to be "self-sustaining". That meant they had to reduce services and raise prices to pay for all theese new costs, resulting in a typical death spiral for the system on most bases (exceptions usually were bases with huge retiree populations and HQ bases that could augment some facilities with "protocol" money. When combined with risk-adverse leadership which cut popular but politically risky activities (like aero clubs) and used the "alcohol card" as a punishment, the decline was almost guaranteed. Example: the Patrick AFB aero club made so much profit that it almost single-handedly supported the base NAF system. The base leadership closed it under a bunch of BS excuses and the facilities and service dive-bombed. Only the retiree population saved any of it!

[Dupe]

If all the NAF activities are now supposed to be self-sustaining, where then does my AAFES money go?

[discus]

Only the retiree population saved any of it!

ORF's to the rescue!! They should be at the club, drinking instead of jamming up the line in the class six with an entire shopping cart full of booze where they argue with the ESL clerk about an expired coupon for $.70 off of a bottle of Jack Daniels when all I want is a @$%^# single can of Copenhagen to make it through my day.

Edit: I can't WAIT to be that ORF hobbling through the class six line.

Edited September 28, 2010 by discus

[HiFlyer]

If all the NAF activities are now supposed to be self-sustaining, where then does my AAFES money go?

AAFES is not a NAF activity, nor is the Commissary system. They are still "appropriated entities", which Congress frequently complains about. Their money (profit) mostly goes to finance improvements in the AAFES system (I know, I know..."What improvements??"), I believe, and to some Service level master funds.

[Dupe]

AAFES is not a NAF activity, nor is the Commissary system. They are still "appropriated entities", which Congress frequently complains about. Their money (profit) mostly goes to finance improvements in the AAFES system (I know, I know..."What improvements??"), I believe, and to some Service level master funds.

Mostly false.

AAFES is charged with making a profit, but returns every cent of its earnings to customers. The only Congressionally appropriated money spent in AAFES comes in the form of utilities and transportation of merchandise to overseas exchanges and for military salaries. A nonappropriated fund activity (NAF) of the Department of Defense, AAFES funds 98% of its operating budget (civilian employee salaries, inventory investments, utilities and capital investments for equipment, vehicles and facilities) from the sale of merchandise, food and services to customers.

More than 70% of AAFES earnings are paid to Morale, Welfare and Recreation (MWR) Programs. In the past 10 years more than $1.93 billion has been contributed by AAFES to the Army and Air Force to spend on quality of life improvements for soldiers, airmen and their families--libraries, sports programs, swimming pools, youth activities, tickets and tour services, bowling centers, hobby shops, music programs, outdoor facilities and unit functions

AAFES Profile

So my real question is that if the activities are all supposed to make a profit, where does the AAFES money go? Is it a case of the profitable activities getting richer (Outdoor rec, mostly), or is that money used to bolster activities that maybe wouldn't otherwise make the cut (hobby shops, aero clubs, etc)? I wish that the NAF activities at more remote locations were better than those of high population/retirement areas, but we all know that's simply not the case. I doubt the AAFES money goes to bolster the activities at the more desolate locations.

[HiFlyer]

Mostly false.

AAFES Profile

So my real question is that if the activities are all supposed to make a profit, where does the AAFES money go? Is it a case of the profitable activities getting richer (Outdoor rec, mostly), or is that money used to bolster activities that maybe wouldn't otherwise make the cut (hobby shops, aero clubs, etc)? I wish that the NAF activities at more remote locations were better than those of high population/retirement areas, but we all know that's simply not the case. I doubt the AAFES money goes to bolster the activities at the more desolate locations.

I stand corrected. My knowledge is outdated in this case. Thanks for the correction.

[HercDude]

Awesome: My stepmom was a young 2Lt at Luke back in the early 80's and told us the club was awesome. Said they brought in strippers. 'nough said.

Need pictures of the strippers. And your stepmom.

[dontshavemyhead]

Need pictures of the strippers. And your stepmom.

Disregard.

Need pictures of strippers.

[Guest AlphaSigOU]

Don't even get me started on the state of MWR here on Kwajalein... while we're an Army installation only about 15 green-suiters and about 50 GS civvies form the command; 800 private contractor employees run the rest. (Yes, the inmates run the asylum!) When AAFES came in to run the shopping (took over from the private contractor), we got screwed out of our share of MWR money. Excuse? Not enough military. It's being fixed but taking forever and a day to get it done. We used to have something similar to an O-club, but that closed down; the nearest equivalent to the O-club bar today is the American Legion post bar on island.