Difference in C-17 bases

[C17Driver]

I'm not a C-17 guy, so I admit I know little about what you all do... but what's the point of practicing low levels at an airland only place? Is there that big of a demand for low level infiltration to land on a dirt strip and offload? Couldn't they roll that into the airdrop mission? Not bashing, just curious.

As for the C-17 bases, you really can't go wrong at any (except Altus, of course). I think the people who bash on McGuire have some weird hatred for the northeast, don't like the weather, or don't like the base itself... and I'd bet a lot of those live on base (puke) or in dirty Jerz. If you're single and choose to live in suburbia over one of the biggest cities in the country, then I've got no sympathy for you. I can understand if you're married/ have kids I guess, and then the Jersey suburbia is basically the same as any other in the country with the exception of having a terribly designed road system. McGuire is one of the few AF places that allows you to live in a real city. The commute is well worth it, probably why tons of new people coming in are flocking to Philly. You can always do the suburb thing later in life.

It's part of the mission statement for C-17s. Why do we practice ICBM launches (I hope they practice) if it's probably never going to be needed? Same reason...

[Guest Sandlapper]

It's part of the mission statement for C-17s. Why do we practice ICBM launches (I hope they practice) if it's probably never going to be needed? Same reason...

Mission statements change. My copilot C-17 initial qual checkride (airland) was a 2-ship (1998)...

[C17Driver]

Mission statements change. My copilot C-17 initial qual checkride (airland) was a 2-ship (1998)...

True. And SAC is dead. But the mission statement hasn't changed yet so we still practice them.

[Karl Hungus]

It's part of the mission statement for C-17s. Why do we practice ICBM launches (I hope they practice) if it's probably never going to be needed? Same reason...

Ok, but is airdrop also part of the mission statement? I guess I don't get why airland only bases do low levels, yet don't do airdrop... and how useful low levels are in regards to airland vs. airdrop.

[TacAirCoug]

Ok, but is airdrop also part of the mission statement? I guess I don't get why airland only bases do low levels, yet don't do airdrop... and how useful low levels are in regards to airland vs. airdrop.

No one ever said low levels require airdrops at the end of the route. Have you never heard of a single ship low level ingress to an LZ?

[JarheadBoom]

I think the people who bash on McGuire have some weird hatred for the northeast, don't like the weather, or don't like the base itself... and I'd bet a lot of those live on base (puke) or in dirty Jerz.

I'm guessing you've never been stationed at McGuire. The supporting agencies on base (ALL of them) run the show; MX and Ops are a distant 2nd and 3rd, respectively, on the priority list. There are people at Finance, MilPay, the Med group, the Wing, etc. who will literally expend more time and energy pawning your problem off on someone else, than what they would have needed to just fix the problem and get you out of their face.

Despite their best efforts, the flying gets done... but it's a hell of an effort sometimes to overcome the retardism that runs rampant at this place. Some folks I work with who've spent time at other bases think it's something in the water...

[C17Driver]

Ok, but is airdrop also part of the mission statement? I guess I don't get why airland only bases do low levels, yet don't do airdrop... and how useful low levels are in regards to airland vs. airdrop.

Each Squadron is expected to provide a certain capability to the fight. There are other benefits to training to fly low levels that is outside the scope of this thread--has nothing to do with the difference in C-17 Bases.

[scoobs]

Is New Jersey that bad? I've heard good things about southern part of the state.

[zrooster99]

How often do C-17s do low levels compared to the C-130? Do either actually do low levels outside of training?

Currency requirement is 2 per semi-annual (one day one night/NVG). I did 3 this quarter, but that's unusual. As an airland guy, I've never done a real world low-level. I guess the airdrop guys do, but I don't know how common that is.

[JarheadBoom]

Is New Jersey that bad? I've heard good things about southern part of the state.

Depends on how you define "that bad".

- NJ is anti-gun. REALLY anti-gun. Not quite as bad as CA & NY, but it's close.

- NJ is the highest-taxed state in the US, ahead of the likes of CA, NY, and Taxachusetts.

- Sell property in NJ, and don't buy another property in NJ? There's a tax for that - the "exit tax".

But if you have to live in NJ, south Jersey is where it's at IMO. It can get a little redneckish, but I'd rather deal with south Jersey rednecks than north Jersey wannabe-NY liberals.

[C17Driver]

A few other things about the different bases:

McChord & Charleston - you are it...you are the show in town. The base is there for the C-17

Dover - compete with the C-5s

McQuire/Ft Dix/whatever else it's called - C-17s and KC-10s & WIC

Travis - 3 MWS base (KC-10, C-5, C-17) plus Navy TACAMO, Army, EMTF (and CRW), Large Med Group (David Grant)

Elemendorf - PACAF fighter base with a C-17 footprint and distance from the rest of the country

Hickam - PACAF...island...

[Whitman]

A few other things about the different bases:

McChord & Charleston - you are it...you are the show in town. The base is there for the C-17

Dover - compete with the C-5s

McQuire/Ft Dix/whatever else it's called - C-17s and KC-10s & WIC

Travis - 3 MWS base (KC-10, C-5, C-17) plus Navy TACAMO, Army, EMTF (and CRW), Large Med Group (David Grant)

Elemendorf - PACAF fighter base with a C-17 footprint and distance from the rest of the country

Hickam - PACAF...island...

The services at Elmo are outstanding:

1) Downhill ski area

2) Multiple ponds for canoeing and fishing

3) Horseback riding and stables

4) Aero club at AFB runway

5) Private float plane club on six mile lake just north of the field with 2000' gravel strip next to it.

6) Huge outdoor rec. shop (go figure)

I'm pretty sure they have XC ski areas too and the golf course looked pretty nice. Coupled with the amazing hunting, fishing, and outdoor opportunities up there, Elmo seems like a great place to be stationed!

Edited September 18, 2009 by Whitman

[Karl Hungus]

I'm guessing you've never been stationed at McGuire. The supporting agencies on base (ALL of them) run the show; MX and Ops are a distant 2nd and 3rd, respectively, on the priority list. There are people at Finance, MilPay, the Med group, the Wing, etc. who will literally expend more time and energy pawning your problem off on someone else, than what they would have needed to just fix the problem and get you out of their face.

Despite their best efforts, the flying gets done... but it's a hell of an effort sometimes to overcome the retardism that runs rampant at this place. Some folks I work with who've spent time at other bases think it's something in the water...

I'm at McGuire right now. I agree with all that stuff you mentioned- it's terrible- but it's also pretty much the same as every other location I've had the "pleasure" of being at. I was more commenting on living in the area vs. working at the base itself... I'd just come to the conclusion that the support first, ops second mentality was universal in the AF.

[ChkHandleDn]

Depends on how you define "that bad".

- NJ is anti-gun. REALLY anti-gun. Not quite as bad as CA & NY, but it's close.

- NJ is the highest-taxed state in the US, ahead of the likes of CA, NY, and Taxachusetts.

- Sell property in NJ, and don't buy another property in NJ? There's a tax for that - the "exit tax".

But if you have to live in NJ, south Jersey is where it's at IMO. It can get a little redneckish, but I'd rather deal with south Jersey rednecks than north Jersey wannabe-NY liberals.

Of course there are ways around the above.

Remain a resident of your home state and don't buy or plan on buying a gun here. You can go to the range at Dix and shoot w/ no issues (no gun card, etc) since you're just "passing through." Or just go to PA for your shooting. It's about 20 mins from where I live. I stocked up on ammo before I got here too. But if you really want to shoot there are ways around it.

To avoid paying this commie state, don't become a resident of NJ (if you're married and the wife gets a job, she doesn't have a choice). Also, avoid buying property here. Not only are the property taxes extremely high, but home prices are outrageous. I thought UT was bad until I got here. It's amazing what 200K-300K would buy in UT compared to here.

Other than that, we really like S. Jersey. It's clean, there's a lot to do, and it beats Del Rio.

[WeMeantWell]

Something to consider: multiple squadron bases versus single squadron bases. You can be a big fish in a small pond or fight and claw to be a mediocre fish in a big pond... Do Charleston or McChord your first assignment to get the AD stink on ya, when your OPRs don't mean diddley, and no one cares if you ran the change of command cermony or not(Plus you will be at Altus for training a lot during your first assignment)... Then get to a single Sqd locale and put in above average work/hours and kiss A$$ for a year or two; guranteed Major and if you really want (and work for it) ACSC in-res. Regardless if you want to stay in or not, you will have a lot more options and won't be competing with 3 other squadrons of dudes, doing the exact same job, in the exact same plane, in your same year group. Even though you might be competing with other airframes at the other bases, it isn't the same.

If you want to make it a career, you HAVE to go through Charleston or McChord at some point, and if you want to make it past LtC, 2x... you might make it by going through Altus at some point if you didn't make it to those 2, but it might be tougher... (obviously I am speaking generalities, everyone has an exception to that I am sure). If career/rank is not a motivator then choose on lifestyle, the "look at me, I got this pretty plane and this location" wears off in about 6 months, and then your are stuck with it.

[tundra AC]

Some folks have said that there is a specific window for people starting the AD courses. How do FAIPs fall into this window or do they not do AD that much?

I'm at CHS so I can't speak for the other bases, but there's plenty of dudes that come in from FAIP/OSA assignments and get into airdrop. The window you hear people refer to is about the return on investment that your squadron gets from you after sending you through all the upgrades. For a guy straight out of UPT, there is plenty of time to get upgrades done and be a fully qualified airdropper for several years. As a second assignment guy, there's a tendency for commanders to be more concerned about positioning you for your O-4 board (exec, flt/cc, IP upgrade, deploy, etc). I don't agree with the system, but those boxes matter for promotion/school and being airdrop qualified doesn't. It will also depend on the PFT for the year and how many training slots your squadron gets. Some years there's enough that almost everyone can go if they want to...other years it's pretty lean. If you want to get into the program, let your DO know when you get there.

Edited September 19, 2009 by tundra AC

[Guest CA]

More than an hour drive? Do you drive 35mph? I do the commute daily and it takes me 40-50 minutes depending on traffic. D

I googled from Philly to McGuire and it said about an hour. Based it off of that. Only been up that way once and it was for my officer interview so I have no idea of the actual drive. Still though, 40-50 minutes sucks IMO. I'd live on base if I had only those 2 options.

[ChkHandleDn]

I googled from Philly to McGuire and it said about an hour. Based it off of that. Only been up that way once and it was for my officer interview so I have no idea of the actual drive. Still though, 40-50 minutes sucks IMO. I'd live on base if I had only those 2 options.

After living on base during pilot training and dealing w/ Pinnacle and all their BS, we told ourselves we'd never live on base again. If you have little kids though, base might not be a bad option. If you're single, or you and the wife are DINKs, I advise living off base.

I have no problem communting 40 minutes from where I currently live. The drive isn't bad at all since it's all back roads. Besides, when you're on trips you're not commuting anyway. There is nothing w/in 30 minutes of base that's fun to do. If you're married, your wife would be bored out of her mind. The BX can only be so fun. Also, on weekends you'll end up driving 30-40 mins away anyway so why not live off base? We lived on base for about three weeks and we drove off base every night about 30-40 minutes for dinner, friends, etc.

[Guest trouble t]

Chances of prior C-130 nav getting into airdrop/SOLL II after UPT-Altus-airdrop C-17 base?

[Guest CA]

If you're married, your wife would be bored out of her mind. The BX can only be so fun.

She'll learn to love it, just like she learned to love the grocery store and the kitchen.

[GearMonkey]

Chances of prior C-130 nav getting into airdrop/SOLL II after UPT-Altus-airdrop C-17 base?

Airdrop chances wouldn't be too bad. I've seen a lot of FAIP and C-21 guys in the airdrop community so there is no reason a former Nav couldn't end up there.

SOLL II, on the other hand, would probably be a challenge. They like to hook you early so you can get all your upgrades done without having to worry about the typical BS related to the Major promotion (office job posturing mostly). You may be able to spin your Nav experience as a plus since those skills would be beneficial to the mission. Every once in a while people get fast tracked through the SOLL II upgrades (almost always former non-Charleston airdroppers) but it doesn't happen often.

[Guest trouble t]

thanks for the info!

[itsokimapilot]

Airdrop chances wouldn't be too bad. I've seen a lot of FAIP and C-21 guys in the airdrop community so there is no reason a former Nav couldn't end up there.

SOLL II, on the other hand, would probably be a challenge. They like to hook you early so you can get all your upgrades done without having to worry about the typical BS related to the Major promotion (office job posturing mostly). You may be able to spin your Nav experience as a plus since those skills would be beneficial to the mission. Every once in a while people get fast tracked through the SOLL II upgrades (almost always former non-Charleston airdroppers) but it doesn't happen often.

It's been done before. If that is what you want to do, talk to the SOLL II folks in your squadron early. The Major positioning hasn't been that big of a deal from what I've seen. But, you will have to work a little harder than the pipeline Lts.

[Guest trouble t]

It's been done before. If that is what you want to do, talk to the SOLL II folks in your squadron early. The Major positioning hasn't been that big of a deal from what I've seen. But, you will have to work a little harder than the pipeline Lts.

wilco. thanks.

[otsap]

After living on base during pilot training and dealing w/ Pinnacle and all their BS, we told ourselves we'd never live on base again. If you have little kids though, base might not be a bad option. If you're single, or you and the wife are DINKs, I advise living off base.

I have no problem communting 40 minutes from where I currently live. The drive isn't bad at all since it's all back roads. Besides, when you're on trips you're not commuting anyway. There is nothing w/in 30 minutes of base that's fun to do. If you're married, your wife would be bored out of her mind. The BX can only be so fun. Also, on weekends you'll end up driving 30-40 mins away anyway so why not live off base? We lived on base for about three weeks and we drove off base every night about 30-40 minutes for dinner, friends, etc.

Probably the most valid point. Yeah, it's a 40-50 minute commute, but you only do it 7-8 days a month.

Another thing to consider when deciding is leadership. You'd have to ask people about personal experiences, so it'd require more research, but it's definitely something to consider.