Karl Richter Air Force Base

[Kaman]

I am a Navy veteran, Air Force brat and avid enthusiast for airpower of all branches. I was privelged to serve in the Navy as an enlisted aircrewman in helicopters, and everything I learned there I have applied to how I conduct myself as a civilian and as an airline pilot now. I grew up as a "70's" child looking thru fences, standing on the flightline or riding my bike to the end of the runway. My heroes were all pilots, mostly Air Force at the time. The Viet Nam era was winding down when I started high school, and I recall vividly the POWs returning from North Viet Nam. I read about the F-105 pilots that flew over North Viet Nam, and the obstacles that they faced beyond just ingressing, attacking and egressing. Not only were they fighting for their lives and their strike team members lives, but also fighting the very leadership that ordered the strikes from the White House on down the chain-of-command.

The point of this message is a question...Why is that the United States Air Force has NEVER honored any Air Force personnel with the re-naming an Air Force Base in their honor? This is a travesty in my opinion and exacerbated by the naming of Creech AFB and Onizuka AFB in recent years. Brave and honorable men that served their country with distinction. However, we have ignored Viet Nam as a place where USAF warriors fought and died. Perhaps many people don't know, don't care or don't want to know who First Lieutenant Karl Richter was. Well, I do and I remember alot of his comrades. This is the way I was raised and the way I am raising my daughter. We enjoy the freedoms and way of life because of people like Lt. Richter.

The opportunity exists to re-name a number of Air Force bases to honor Lt. Richter. Altus, Minot, Little Rock, Grand Forks, etc... I am going to start a petition to try and honor our USAF Viet Nam veterans. The precedent is set by the Navy naming Destroyers for it's fallen in all wars up to including Iraq and Afghanistan. Please foward me your support via this forum to proceed with this effort. I am just one person, but I have been pondering this for a long time and I finally decided to act. Thank you for your attention...

Fly safely,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

[Steve Davies]

Kaman

The Air Force has named some bases after people (Edwards AFB, Ca, being a classic example), but does seem to prefer to name buildings and streets in their honour instead.

Although a Brit with no real right to chime in here, I think yours is an excellent idea. Good luck with it.

Cheers

Steve

[M2]

Although I do appreciate your enthusiasm, most US bases are named after people. Scott AFB is named after the first enlisted person killed in an aviation crash (Corporal Frank S. Scott). Dyess is named after Lt. Col. William Edwin Dyess, a native of Albany, Texas. Luke, MacDill, Beale, Keesler, McChord, Cannon, Hurlburt, Langley, Hickam...the list goes on.

The Air Force's history is full of noble individuals who gave their lives for their country and their fellow airmen. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough bases to honor each and every one of them.

Cheers! M2

[WheelsOff]

I was going to rattle off the names of a few notable AFB's named after some rather distinguished vets but M2 beat me to it. I too support your enthusiasm though. If I may make a suggestion for recommendation of names to use for Navy vets of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars (if they haven't been used already) - the names of any of the four Seal team members who were a part of Operation RedWing would be quite deserving. What a story.

[disgruntledemployee]

Hmmm. When I read your post, I had a few different thoughts.

1. I agree, naming our bases, streets, gates, FOBs, etc. is a great way to honor our men and women.

2. I disagree on RENAMING a base.

3. The tone of your message...well, I didn't like it. How many bases has the Navy renamed, or how many of them are named after a heroic/instrumental leader? Now compare that to the AF. Tell you what, lets start listing bases, and see if the Navy can make it to bases starting with letter C. Before you go slamming the AF on base names, perhaps you should do a little research as to why a base was named such.

Perhaps you should petition the Navy to rename Pearl Harbor, Norfolk, Pt Mugu, or Key West after LT Mike Murphy.

So no, I will not join you in petitioning the renaming of AF base names. If the AF decides to build a new base somewhere, I will make a suggestion.

BTW LR is named as such because the people of the area purchased and donated the land for the base back in the 50s.

Out

[Guest C17Wes]

Selfridge AFB outside of Detroit.

The airfield was named for Lieutenant Thomas Selfridge, the first U.S. military officer to die in an aviation accident while flying with Orville Wright at Fort Myer, Virginia on 17 September 1908

[nsplayr]

More research needed sir. Your example of Creech was particularly bad. Creech AFB was named after General Wilbur Creech who, while dying of natural causes after his retirement, did fly plenty of combat time in Vietnam during his career. M2 already pointed out the numerous other Air Force bases named after those who have fallen and while it's honorable to want to remember Vietnam vets in a more visible way, I for one think the Air Force is ahead of or at minimum on par with the other services who all have a mix of base names derived from people or geographic locations.

Edit to add: Onizuka AFB was named in 1986...not exactly a recent decision either...

Edited October 1, 2009 by nsplayr

[i.o.w.a]

I'll sign your petition.

If LR is excited to have a base named after itself thanks to the sacrifice they made in leasing the land, they should be honored to have a Richter AFB near their city in thanks to the sacrifice he made.

[Wolf424]

Not to sound like a broken record, as I do appreciate your enthusiasm as well. The Navy example though is kind of a poor one. When the Navy has 280 different ships to name people for, they tend to have more opportunities to honor their fallen. (BTW, another AF example of course was Seymour Johnson AFB, who was named after a Navy Vietnam pilot I believe) The Navy doesn't exactly have a rich history of naming bases after people (NAS Corpus Christi? NAS Kingsville? Twentynine Palms? Great Lakes? Kings Bay?...) I wish you luck, but renaming a base is not the answer.

[Kaman]

Interesting replies thus far. For the record, I am well aware of the names of most USAF bases both current and those that have closed. I understand that many of the bases are named for men that served with valor in all conflicts, except for Viet Nam to present day. I DO NOT support re-naming of any USAF bases that do not have a name that denotes it's current location. All my examples cited some of those bases, and the USAF didn't begin to actively name bases for USAF personnel into the 50's.

I am well aware of the career of General Creech, indeed I do need to research more into this whole process. However, for the record General Creech was killed in the crash of a T-39 if I am wrong, please correct me. There are numerous un-named heroes that deserve to be honored. However, naming a base for Lt. Karl Richter is a step in the right direction for honoring all those USAF personnel that made the ultimate sacrifice over the skies of North Viet Nam.

Also, for the record I wasn't slamming the USAF or anyone tha served or is currently serving in the USAF. My father served in the USAF for 26 years, flew combat in two wars and served in Viet Nam as a DoD civilian, so I think that the person accusing me of any "slamming" is way out of line. I wasn't comparing anything that the Navy did or engaging in some ridiculous parochial dialogue about how the Navy does a better job honoring it's fallen. The Navy simply has a different system for naming it's ships and stations than the Air Force. I GREW UP on USAF bases and not only do I KNOW the names, but I know what the names represent and who those men were. I challenge anyone to tell me that my intent was anything, but honorable and it often takes putting yourself out there to get something done. Frankly, my father would be rolling in his grave if he knew what has become of "his" Air Force and the one that I loved as yong boy/young man watching, talking to and listening to combat veterans.

Karl Richer is only the beginning...What about Captain Lance P. Sijan? Do you remember who he was? I DO... Doesn't make me special, it means I care about what these men sacrificed, so I can fly around and bitch about our wonderful airline industry.

Respectfully,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

sfitzpatrick59@hotmail.com

[Hacker]

Just remember that there are reams of AFBs that have been closed over the years that were named for many, many other USAF/USAAC heroes. Just because their names don't grace currently-open AFBs doesn't mean they haven't been previously recognized.

[WheelzUp]

I am a Navy veteran, Air Force brat and avid enthusiast for airpower of all branches. I was privelged to serve in the Navy as an enlisted aircrewman in helicopters, and everything I learned there I have applied to how I conduct myself as a civilian and as an airline pilot now. I grew up as a "70's" child looking thru fences, standing on the flightline or riding my bike to the end of the runway. My heroes were all pilots, mostly Air Force at the time. The Viet Nam era was winding down when I started high school, and I recall vividly the POWs returning from North Viet Nam. I read about the F-105 pilots that flew over North Viet Nam, and the obstacles that they faced beyond just ingressing, attacking and egressing. Not only were they fighting for their lives and their strike team members lives, but also fighting the very leadership that ordered the strikes from the White House on down the chain-of-command.

The point of this message is a question...Why is that the United States Air Force has NEVER honored any Air Force personnel with the re-naming an Air Force Base in their honor? This is a travesty in my opinion and exacerbated by the naming of Creech AFB and Onizuka AFB in recent years. Brave and honorable men that served their country with distinction. However, we have ignored Viet Nam as a place where USAF warriors fought and died. Perhaps many people don't know, don't care or don't want to know who First Lieutenant Karl Richter was. Well, I do and I remember alot of his comrades. This is the way I was raised and the way I am raising my daughter. We enjoy the freedoms and way of life because of people like Lt. Richter.

The opportunity exists to re-name a number of Air Force bases to honor Lt. Richter. Altus, Minot, Little Rock, Grand Forks, etc... I am going to start a petition to try and honor our USAF Viet Nam veterans. The precedent is set by the Navy naming Destroyers for it's fallen in all wars up to including Iraq and Afghanistan. Please foward me your support via this forum to proceed with this effort. I am just one person, but I have been pondering this for a long time and I finally decided to act. Thank you for your attention...

Fly safely,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

Dude, outstanding observation for sure. But here's the scoop. As you yourself mentioned, the Navy names Boats after fallen sailors. And that is a Naval tradition, but we aren't very well going to start naming airplanes after downed airmen. Additionally, there aren't very many Air Force bases to go around. Certainly Lt. Richter has a noteworthy story, but so do hundreds, if not thousands of others. So while this is a great idea, it just can't be accomodated. How do you deem Vietnam to be a more or less important conflict than all the others? There are many AFB's named after fallen airmen by the way. But many of them are named after folks who died during the formative years of Air Force history. Hopefully that all makes sense.

Wheelz

[Kaman]

As an addendum...Look back into history at the names of many USAF bases that were "re-named" for points of geography (ex: Limestone AFB=Loring AFB, Muroc AFB=Edwards AFB XB-47 test pilot killed at Edwards) to a fallen USAF hero. Seymour-Johnson I believe was named for tow different Army Air Corps aviators from the pre-WW1 era. The Navy system names airfields for honored Naval personnel (ex: NAS Pensacola=Sherman Field, Moffet Field is the one station that is actually named for a Naval Aviator from the Lighter-than-Air program of the 30's). I don't profess to be an historian, but I do alot of reading sitting around the crewroom. Last USAF base named for a USAF combat veteran that was killed in action was McConnell AFB in Kansas. Ironically, McConnell was the F-105 RTU during the 60's and it's where Lt. Richter completed his F-105 training and was selected to ferry an F-105 from McConnell to Korat RTAFB, and was immediately flying combt missions as a part of "Rolling Thunder".

[M2]

BTW, another AF example of course was Seymour Johnson AFB, who was named after a Navy Vietnam pilot I believe

Good point, Seymour Johnson Air Force Base is named in honor of Navy Lt. Seymour A. Johnson, a Goldsboro native who died in an airplane crash near Norbeck, Md., on March 5, 1941 (Source). It may be the only Air Force base named in honor of a naval officer, but how many Navy bases are named after Air Force pilots?

[Kaman]

Dude, outstanding observation for sure. But here's the scoop. As you yourself mentioned, the Navy names Boats after fallen sailors. And that is a Naval tradition, but we aren't very well going to start naming airplanes after downed airmen. Additionally, there aren't very many Air Force bases to go around. Certainly Lt. Richter has a noteworthy story, but so do hundreds, if not thousands of others. So while this is a great idea, it just can't be accomodated. How do you deem Vietnam to be a more or less important conflict than all the others? There are many AFB's named after fallen airmen by the way. But many of them are named after folks who died during the formative years of Air Force history. Hopefully that all makes sense.

Wheelz

My logic is that we stopped naming AFB for USAF fallen after Korea, and only named one base McConnell. So, Viet Nam is the next major conflict that the USAF was involved in. I guess my thought process is that we can do better for our past heroes as well as the currently serving members of the military. We are so easy to forget...So quick to push aside the seemingly irrelevant for the pressing issues of the day that we no longer can see the forest for all the trees.

[Red Fox]

Kaman,

Many of the heroes (McGuire, Dyess, etc.)that AF bases are named after were from the local area where the bases are located.

Karl Richter is well known among most AF pilots and has been honored by the AF. When the Air University at Maxwell AFB commissioned a statue to commemorate the fighter pilot, it was sculpted in the likeness of Lt Richter (and may even be dedicated to him). Gen Boyd (who was a POW in Vietnam and flew F-105s at Korat when Lt Richter did) was the Air University commander at the time and stated he couldn't think of a better example of the fighter pilot than Karl Richter and wanted him as the model for the statue. Frankly, I can't think of a finer honor (respect by one's peers).

Red

Edited October 1, 2009 by Red Fox

[nsplayr]

My logic is that we stopped naming AFB for USAF fallen after Korea, and only named one base McConnell. So, Viet Nam is the next major conflict that the USAF was involved in. I guess my thought process is that we can do better for our past heroes as well as the currently serving members of the military. We are so easy to forget...So quick to push aside the seemingly irrelevant for the pressing issues of the day that we no longer can see the forest for all the trees.

I'd say the opposite based on your logic. Since there aren't exactly new AFBs popping up all over the place, many of our bases are named for long-lost heroes of the past that most people probably don't personally remember. Those heroes who died in more recent times still live on in the memories of their friends, colleagues, and children. If the opportunity arose to name a new base, sure, name it after a Vietnam or even more recent fallen hero, but that doesn't seem likely. Also you implied that Onizuka was a bad choice for a base name even though it was named for someone who died in 1986 in the line of duty; why is that?

[Kaman]

Kaman,

Many of the heroes (McGuire, Dyess, etc.)that AF bases are named after were from the local area where the bases are located.

Karl Richter is well known among most AF pilots and has been honored by the AF. When the Air University at Maxwell AFB commissioned a statue to commemorate the fighter pilot, it was sculpted in the likeness of Lt Richter (and may even be dedicated to him). Gen Boyd (who was a POW in Vietnam and flew F-105s at Korat when Lt Richter did) was the Air University commander at the time and stated he couldn't think of a better example of the fighter pilot than Karl Richter and wanted him as the model for the statue. Frankly, I can't think of a finer honor (respect by one's peers).

Red

Yes sir, I lived on Otis AFB in Falmouth, Massachusetts. Named for a member of the Mass National Guard who was killed piloting an observation aircraft. My Dad was assigned to the 551st AEW&C Wing flying the EC-121H, and we lived on the corner of Tinker and Vandenburg in family housing. Ate many a meal in the Shaw mess hall too! Used to ride along with the APs and snowplows as a little fella. Our neighbor was commander of the AP sqdn. and another was a Base CE commander. I was very lucky growing up.

I'd say the opposite based on your logic. Since there aren't exactly new AFBs popping up all over the place, many of our bases are named for long-lost heroes of the past that most people probably don't personally remember. Those heroes who died in more recent times still live on in the memories of their friends, colleagues, and children. If the opportunity arose to name a new base, sure, name it after a Vietnam or even more recent fallen hero, but that doesn't seem likely. Also you implied that Onizuka was a bad choice for a base name even though it was named for someone who died in 1986 in the line of duty; why is that?

No sir, I didn't say either Creech or Onizuka were bad choices. LCOL Onizuka served his country with honor and distinction make no doubt that I agree with that. General Creech was the father of the modern Tactical Air Command and would have been CoS of the USAF and he was a combat pilot. This isn't meant as a slight at all, but I believe that Onizuka AFB was a political decision in the wake of the Challenger disaster. You're right about honoring those of more current conflicts, but we have truly ignored Viet Nam. Just my opinion.

[Champ Kind]

And here I thought all of the bases were named after old, old wooden ships.

[Gravedigger]

Many of the AFSPACE bases are named after USAF veterans (Vandenberg, Schriever, Peterson, Patrick etc.) I am in no way opposed to naming a base after a Vietnam (or later) hero, but I don't know about renaming a base. I personally have no problem with it, it would just be an incredible expenditure during cost cutting times. A new base...absolutely.

[disgruntledemployee]

...for the record I wasn't slamming the USAF or anyone tha served or is currently serving in the USAF.

Karl Richer is only the beginning...What about Captain Lance P. Sijan? Do you remember who he was? I DO... Doesn't make me special, it means I care about what these men sacrificed, so I can fly around and bitch about our wonderful airline industry.

OK, Kaman, I'll allow that your intentions seems honorable, but like I said earlier, I didn't like the tone of your original post. I thought, why is a Navy dude posting that the AF doesn't have bases named after people. It didn't sit right.

Next, please don't name drop in order to press your point. But if you want, next time I'm in Milwaukee, I ask Jane Sijan if she would like an AFB named after her son when I see her in church.

BTW, which base would you like to rename?

Out

[afnav]

What I think is worse in this discussion is that an Air Force base was named after a genuine hero, and then the name was changed after the base was transferred to the Navy.

Carswell AFB in my home town was named after Maj Horace Carswell, a Fort Worth native and TCU grad, who received the Medal of Honor for actions in the South China Sea in 1944. When the base was BRAC'd and closed in 1994, it was renamed Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth, yet it retained the term 'Carswell Field' in small letters. They exhumed Maj Carswell's remains, which had been on the base for years, and buried him in a cemetery in town.

There are Military Sealift Command ships named for Air Force Medal of Honor recipients, so why did they have to drop Carswell from the name?

[Spoo]

And here I thought all of the bases were named after old, old wooden ships.

No, that's Diversity.

[Kaman]

What I think is worse in this discussion is that an Air Force base was named after a genuine hero, and then the name was changed after the base was transferred to the Navy.

Carswell AFB in my home town was named after Maj Horace Carswell, a Fort Worth native and TCU grad, who received the Medal of Honor for actions in the South China Sea in 1944. When the base was BRAC'd and closed in 1994, it was renamed Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth, yet it retained the term 'Carswell Field' in small letters. They exhumed Maj Carswell's remains, which had been on the base for years, and buried him in a cemetery in town.

There are Military Sealift Command ships named for Air Force Medal of Honor recipients, so why did they have to drop Carswell from the name?

Thats a very good question considering that Westover and March are also AFRC bases and Westover is now a joint reserve base. My brother-in-law was stationed there in the early 80s flying B-52s and it was a great place to visit.

[tac airlifter]

I'm sure your intentions are honorable but I won't be signing your petition. There is too much change for the sake of change in the AF now, and very little mission focus outside the squadron level. I agree that of all the changes I've seen to date, this one appears to be the most worthy (honoring heros) but I just can't justify the cost and effort of renaming the handful of bases that aren't already named for someone special. Additionally, I live on Hurlburt Field (named for a pilot killed in the line of duty) and every street here is named for someone who deserves it. I'll concede that the AF could be better about honoring current heros, but there are more pressing issues at this time. Thanks for your ideas, and good luck on your quest.