Guest Scooby Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 OK who posted this comment on the military times page? It's full of win. I’m a USAF pilot who separated this year in large part because of the poorly placed focus of leadership. What the AF Times and most casual readers see as a “whiny” AF personnel complaining about something silly is actually a far more profound issue. This issue is not about reflective belts. It IS about all of the unimportant items that have evolved into the highest of priorities, taking effort, money, and energy that should be spent on killing enemies, training to kill enemies, and performing our primary duties excellently. Reflective belt policy and enforcement is just one of many over-the-top examples where SNCOs, FGOs, and Generals have formulated, signed, and enforced standards that are nothing short of wasting the skills of our AF personnel, abuse of rank to create policy that need not exist in the first place. This is fraudulent leadership. Go over to baseops.net and read the forum threads about “Leadership at the Deid.” You’ll see literally hundreds of examples of misplaced priorities: colonels speeding excessively on the ramp to inform a pilot that he should be wearing a reflective belt, Master Sergeants unprofessionally grabbing lunch trays from Lieutenants because they were ordered not to allow anyone to eat who is not in a reflective belt, security forces issuing people tickets for going 15mph at 3AM when no other traffic is on the road, IGs and wings making mandatory daytime wear of reflective belts the priority during CORIs, FGO commanders threatening to call police and have airmen ARRESTED for wearing Crocs on the airman’s first day at the Deid, etc. This doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of “leadership’s” terribly misplaced priorities. WHAT ABOUT THE MISSION? As any operator can tell you, the forward locations where no REMFs exist are the most productive assignments of their lives. No worthless SNCOs are harassing people about sunglasses and belts. No shoeclerk officers are playing politics or trying to demonstrate their “power” by creating useless policy that hinders efficiency. No generals are getting bombarded with, then signing, new policy MFRs thought up by bored underlings trying to figure out ways to get deployed OPR/EPR bullets because they have no useful function in theater. Bottom Line: “I Hate Reflective Belts” is a grassroots cry for leadership to pull their heads out of their asses, pay attention to the ridiculous policy MFRs they sign, pay attention to where SNCOs and FGOs put focus, and CHANGE things for the better. Get rid of the bull crap and focus on the mission! The mission is an 18 year old with an M4 outside the wire. The mission is a captain flying a plane full of bombs. Why is this so difficult for people to understand, and why does leadership fail to help airmen understand? The 2nd to last paragraph is outstanding. I just served two years (my first two years actually) with AFSOC and it was awesome. Purely mission focused and no typical Blue BS. Now I'm at Eglin, where all we have is Big Blue nonsense. I'm glad I started off with AFSOC because I am still very much in that mindset, which definitely makes me an outcast at Eglin. Which is also why I'll be punching my ticket at the 4 year mark...
Q1Checkride Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 OK who posted this comment on the military times page? It's full of win. +2, that guy NAILED it!
MKopack Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 +2, that guy NAILED it! Exactly - that is the PERFECT letter that explains the importance of this thread, and a message that needs to be spread.
Guest Rubber_Side_Down Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 capt4fans--Just think...with all of this press, and the statements that have been requested from the Pentagon, the Chief of Staff of the Air Force probably knows your name. You're famous. (...er, notorious?)
sigmanugary Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 OK who posted this comment on the military times page? It's full of win. The 2nd to last paragraph is outstanding. I just served two years (my first two years actually) with AFSOC and it was awesome. Purely mission focused and no typical Blue BS. Now I'm at Eglin, where all we have is Big Blue nonsense. I'm glad I started off with AFSOC because I am still very much in that mindset, which definitely makes me an outcast at Eglin. Which is also why I'll be punching my ticket at the 4 year mark... x2...The further into the quote I read the more I enjoyed it. I think messages are being sent and the "I hate reflective belts" deal is just purely the battle cry (albeit quite humorous). Young officers and NCOs need to continue to work towards figuring out how we can get shit like this changed. What is our service going to look like in 10 years when many of us are FGOs or SNCOs?
pawnman Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 x2...The further into the quote I read the more I enjoyed it. I think messages are being sent and the "I hate reflective belts" deal is just purely the battle cry (albeit quite humorous). Young officers and NCOs need to continue to work towards figuring out how we can get shit like this changed. What is our service going to look like in 10 years when many of us are FGOs or SNCOs? If the USAF keeps sapping morale like this, they'll be lucky if any of us stick around to be FGOs or SNCOs.
Guest Scooby Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 If the USAF keeps sapping morale like this, they'll be lucky if any of us stick around to be FGOs or SNCOs. This. Unless there is a huge shift in mindset among fellow Officers, I will absolutely not be staying long enough to be an FGO. I see so many Os who mindlessly go along with the program and inconvenience their troops just so that they can bend over for the Sq or Gp CC. Take something as stupid as CFC. If I was a Sq/CC, I wouldn't give a shit what my Week 1 contact rate was. That's why CFC is 6 weeks long. Yet if a CFC rep doesn't contact all of his dudes w/in a week, they need to explain themselves. WTF? It's all just so the Sq/CC can brag to other LTCs about how their SQ is done with CFC before everyone else. Congratulations - you're a tool bag. So many Os are just out for themselves and will walk all over their troops to get an extra bullet. I want nothing to do with them.
Guest Hueypilot812 Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I was the CFC dude once, and I know what you're talking about. Despite the fact that CFC has ZERO to do with the mission, my boss and the CC were constantly up my a$$ wanting to know contact numbers. It was like there was a race going on or something. Honestly, no one really cares if our unit came in first for 100% contact...there might be a quick pat on the back at the Wg stand-up, but other than that, it's a non-event. Yet these dudes were climbing over each other trying to be first with the most. It was pretty apparent they wanted that "led squadron that got 100% CFC contact on entire base of XXXX personnel; millions of needy people aided". There were a few dudes in my unit that were nearly impossible to catch up with so I finally just sent them an email stating they could come by my office if they wanted to give, and then signed off the 100% contact thing...so that my 7 bosses would stop hassling me and let me get something useful done.
capt4fans Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) capt4fans--Just think...with all of this press, and the statements that have been requested from the Pentagon, the Chief of Staff of the Air Force probably knows your name. You're famous. (...er, notorious?) You know it's funny. The group just picked up a new Admin today. His name.....is Reflective Belt. I hope he enjoys his time and I'll check my work email when I get back from leave. Edit for bad spelling Edited November 5, 2009 by capt4fans
discus Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 You know it's funny. The group just picked up a new Admin today. His name.....is Reflective Belt. I hope he enjoys his time and I'll check me work email when I get back from leave. Let us know how that goes when you take a look at your in-box. Good luck to the "New" admin.
Napoleon_Tanerite Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 The issue isn't about camouflage. It's about the "No disco belt = no food" policy which is so symbolic of all the heinous prioritization failures occurring there on a daily basis. hammer + nail. It's not about the belt at all... in reality, the belt is a non-issue. It's the fact that so much time, effort and energy is spent forcing people to wear it that is the problem. i say let the policy exist, loosely enforce it (if at all) and absolutely HAMMER people who Darwin tracks down violating it (I.E. ran out in the street sans belt and got hit by a car)
busdriver Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I don't see it as a no disco belt=no food issue at all. I see it as a symptom of a cancer. The cancer is combat leadership not focused on combat operations. If there are so many people who have the time to enforce simple rules with wide sweeping draconian measures, maybe it's time to send people home and reduce the ops tempo. Maybe, just maybe if we did that, we'd be able to sustain the long term war effort we seem to be faced with. We're our own worst enemy.
Guest Scooby Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) I was the CFC dude once, and I know what you're talking about. Despite the fact that CFC has ZERO to do with the mission, my boss and the CC were constantly up my a$$ wanting to know contact numbers. It was like there was a race going on or something. Honestly, no one really cares if our unit came in first for 100% contact...there might be a quick pat on the back at the Wg stand-up, but other than that, it's a non-event. Yet these dudes were climbing over each other trying to be first with the most. It was pretty apparent they wanted that "led squadron that got 100% CFC contact on entire base of XXXX personnel; millions of needy people aided". There were a few dudes in my unit that were nearly impossible to catch up with so I finally just sent them an email stating they could come by my office if they wanted to give, and then signed off the 100% contact thing...so that my 7 bosses would stop hassling me and let me get something useful done. I have 8 different bosses, Bob. 8? 8. edit: My new SQ went even further than having the typical tool bag 100% contact rate w/in 1 week. We actually had a monetary goal (!) and our commander wanted updates on how much money was raised and why more people weren't donating. I was like lol wut? That sounds illegal to me... Edited November 5, 2009 by Scooby
MKopack Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 We can keep them there, just put them to work. They like hanging out at chow halls so make them serve food. We have 24-hour operations but not 24-hour DFAC's. WTFO?! Ironically, all the times I got "caught" without a reflective belt at the chow hall were because I had just landed or otherwise forgot to wear it but didn't have time to go get it because they were closing in 5 minutes. "Sir, excuse me...where's your reflective belt?" -- right as the TCN closes and locks the door. Now picture the same shoe clerk working a shift serving food and legitimatly supporting combat operations...what a novel concept. We had a SVS CO pull the same thing at the beginning of Desert Storm. As I recall they put up a sign cutting back to two meals a day with an MRE for the others because of their 'additional combat duties'. I happened to be in the Rec Center where the Wing King tracked the SVS boss down, and said - loudly and in no uncertian terms, right out in front of everyone - "Your additional duties are as the overflow morgue, and I haven't seen any dead people around here." He made it pretty clear that any hours that he had people working - pilots breifing at 3am, mechanics on the flightline, or SP's patrolling the fence - that there would be food available for them. The sign dissaperaed and there was. It's the MISSION that matters!
arg Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 It made stars and stripes https://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=65860 Best answer from link “I love when people say, ‘hey, where is your reflective belt?’ ” Tom Walsh chimed in. “My only logical response is, ‘wait … you can see me?’ ” We can keep them there, just put them to work. They like hanging out at chow halls so make them serve food. We have 24-hour operations but not 24-hour DFAC's. WTFO?! What's the 'missed meal' deal nowadays? Back in the day, sometimes, a non-24hr chow hall was a missed meal gravy train. There were exercises where GO#1 was "absolutely no missed meals." Some savvy COs would press to test that by arranging the flying schedule so we could eat. That usualy cured that.
TacAirCoug Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 8000+ members and growing! Leadership has taken note, although I fear they may completely misunderstand the underlying reasons people have joined the group. Keep up the fight, folks. Take the time to post comments on blogs and/or send e-mails to journalists who miss the point!
capt4fans Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Anyone want to guess whether or not my Email is full of messages from anyone in my leadership chain when I get back????
zrooster99 Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Anyone want to guess whether or not my Email is full of messages from anyone in my leadership chain when I get back???? For what? Starting a group on facebook and expressing an opinion that other people happen to agree with?
discus Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 You should wear your reflective belt when you report in for your appointment with the WG/CC. At least you'll know if he has a sense of humor. Classic!!
Guest Rubber_Side_Down Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Anyone want to guess whether or not my Email is full of messages from anyone in my leadership chain when I get back???? You probably would've gotten a phone call by now if it were that bad.
Guest Shaggy Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 When I get to my deployed location soon, I'll be sure to take some epic pictures with reflective belts. And maybe if I have a pretty cool crew, even a music video praising the almighty reflective belt and dedicate it to the man that started the resistance
JarheadBoom Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 I had a decent rebuttal to the Stars & Stripes article posted on the Wall. The Army seems to have overrun the Wall, and now it's buried. Oh well...
capt4fans Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 I had a decent rebuttal to the Stars & Stripes article posted on the Wall. The Army seems to have overrun the Wall, and now it's buried. Oh well... PM me your actual name and I'll get it put back on. I think I know the admin. He's a guy by the name of reflective belt.
capt4fans Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 For what? Starting a group on facebook and expressing an opinion that other people happen to agree with? Sorry...sarcasm was lost on that one. On a positive note, we may hit 10,000 members before Midnight Eastern tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!
FalconXtreme Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 imma LT that has yet to EAD please tell me i dont have to pay for my baller RB out of my own pocket??
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