KC-135/707 TYPE

[Guest tank1er]

I was wondering if anyone knows if after completing PIQ at ALTUS if I am able to get my 707 type rating. After UPT my whole T-1 class was given a BE-400 type rating. I called my local FSDO today and they said I had to be a AC with at least ten hrs in the left seat as a functioning AC in order to get typed. If thats true then how come another FSDO is giving T-1 studs a type after UPT. Im going to try to call another FSDO that is closer to my unit and see what they say. Thanks for any feedback.

[Right Seat Driver]

I think this has been covered before, but here's the short and skinny. As a Co you can get a type rating in the 707/720 for SEC Duties only, just like John Travolta. Honestly, save yourself $85 and wait until you get 10 hours as an AC. Getting 10 hours as the A Code won't take all that long.

However, with that being said, call around. I have seen FSDOs surprise people. Just be willing to backup your type ratings in the future if necessary.

[slacker]

You need to get that type rating pronto. Don't take no for an answer, find the right FSDO quickly. The civilian 707 jobs are getting filled quickly and won't last forever.

[Right Seat Driver]

You need to get that type rating pronto. Don't take no for an answer, find the right FSDO quickly. The civilian 707 jobs are getting filled quickly and won't last forever.

Just ask the UPS guys.

[Guest tank1er]

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[slacker]

Gee Slacker you seem to be really on top of the whole baseops thing, maybe one day when im your age i can have a cool profile like yours !

It's good to have goals, junior.

[08Dawg]

Gee Slacker you seem to be really on top of the whole baseops thing, maybe one day when im your age i can have a cool profile like yours !

Your email wouldn't be toroisgay@yahoo.com, would it?

[Bergman]

I was wondering if anyone knows if after completing PIQ at ALTUS if I am able to get my 707 type rating. After UPT my whole T-1 class was given a BE-400 type rating. I called my local FSDO today and they said I had to be a AC with at least ten hrs in the left seat as a functioning AC in order to get typed. If thats true then how come another FSDO is giving T-1 studs a type after UPT. Im going to try to call another FSDO that is closer to my unit and see what they say. Thanks for any feedback.

FWIW, some FSDOs interpret the reg as saying it must be 10 hours of PIC, while others will give it to you (sts) with 10 hours of being dual-seat qualified.

[Guest lightning025]

Read through FAR Part 61.73. The 10 hours AC time used to be spelled out pretty clearly, but the new version is rather vague.

[XL0901]

I was wondering if anyone knows if after completing PIQ at ALTUS if I am able to get my 707 type rating. After UPT my whole T-1 class was given a BE-400 type rating. If thats true then how come another FSDO is giving T-1 studs a type after UPT.

I don't remember what it says exactly, but your T-1 FSDO letter says something about training being completed as PIC (really it is simulated PIC...mostly). This is how you are able your type. The letter is in lieu of a form 8. PIQ (-135 or otherwise) training is copilot training (SIC to the FAA) so you do not meet the requirement of being an AC (PIC) with 10 hours. Not sure but maybe you could get a SIC type (Not sure why you would want to...besides I think the only civilian requirement for a SIC type is ground school. Not positive though)

[Whitman]

I don't remember what it says exactly, but your T-1 FSDO letter says something about training being completed as PIC (really it is simulated PIC...mostly). This is how you are able your type. The letter is in lieu of a form 8. PIQ (-135 or otherwise) training is copilot training (SIC to the FAA) so you do not meet the requirement of being an AC (PIC) with 10 hours. Not sure but maybe you could get a SIC type (Not sure why you would want to...besides I think the only civilian requirement for a SIC type is ground school. Not positive though)

It's not simulated PIC time. It's real PIC time, at least according to FAR part 61 where, "sole manipulator of the controls" is one of the definitions of PIC. In theory, if the co-pilot is flying, he can log PIC (under civilian rules) for being "sole manipulator of the controls", while the AC simultaneously logs it for "acting as pilot-in-command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required". I'm pretty sure the major airlines want only time that you have signed out the jet reflected in you logbook as "PIC", but that may vary.

[XL0901]

It's not simulated PIC time. It's real PIC time, at least according to FAR part 61 where, "sole manipulator of the controls" is one of the definitions of PIC. In theory, if the co-pilot is flying, he can log PIC (under civilian rules) for being "sole manipulator of the controls", while the AC simultaneously logs it for "acting as pilot-in-command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required". I'm pretty sure the major airlines want only time that you have signed out the jet reflected in you logbook as "PIC", but that may vary.

Agreed. I log primary time just as you mentioned. However since I am not an AC I would not be able to obtain a type by FAA rule interpretation. My reference of "simulated PIC time" applied to UPT. Since it is now possible to attend UPT without a PPL, some people are unable to log PIC time even if you were the "sole manipulator of the controls". Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but one cannot log PIC time in an A/C requiring a type rating if you do not have said rating. This is just the way it was explained to me. The T-1 program satisfies the PIC requirements for a type to the FAA, PIQ at Altus or wherever does not. Definately some gray areas.

Edit to clarify

Edited December 6, 2009 by XL0901

[Fast_N_Low135]

In order to log PIC time when you are the "sole manipulator" of the controls, you must be rated in that category, class, or type (if required). So if you have a PPL in ASEL, you can log PIC time in T-6's, even if it's high performance, because you are the sole manipulator of the controls. Now when you get to T-1's, you cannot log PIC time because you are not rated in that type, even if you did have an AMEL rating.

Making sense? I'll give some examples from my experiences, an no, I've not been to UPT yet, but will be this spring. When getting my commercial, I had to begin flying a Piper Arrow, which is a complex aircraft, I did not have a complex endorsement. Yet I was able to log PIC with my instructor because I was the sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft with a category and class I was rated in. When I started my multi-engine, I was not able to log PIC time even as sole manipulator of the controls because I was not rated in that class.

Quick question, when I get done with UPT, can I go to the FSDO and get a high performance endorsement for soloing in T-6's?

[VFR800]

In order to log PIC time when you are the "sole manipulator" of the controls, you must be rated in that category, class, or type (if required). So if you have a PPL in ASEL, you can log PIC time in T-6's, even if it's high performance, because you are the sole manipulator of the controls. Now when you get to T-1's, you cannot log PIC time because you are not rated in that type, even if you did have an AMEL rating.

Making sense? I'll give some examples from my experiences, an no, I've not been to UPT yet, but will be this spring. When getting my commercial, I had to begin flying a Piper Arrow, which is a complex aircraft, I did not have a complex endorsement. Yet I was able to log PIC with my instructor because I was the sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft with a category and class I was rated in. When I started my multi-engine, I was not able to log PIC time even as sole manipulator of the controls because I was not rated in that class.

Quick question, when I get done with UPT, can I go to the FSDO and get a high performance endorsement for soloing in T-6's?

BL...no one is going to give a shit about your "PIC" T-6 time from UPT. All of this discussion about logging UPT time seems incredibly silly. Take the milcomp test, get your commercial if you don't have it already...DONE. Now go log time in a real airplane.

To answer your question, you do not go to the FSDO for a high performance endorsement. You will have to find a T-6 IP who is also a CFI and have him/her endorse your logbook. If you have the nice Jepp logbooks, there should even be a pre-written endorsement in the back...otherwise you need to find the verbiage to use and have him/her sign it.

[kapilot]

BL...no one is going to give a shit about your "PIC" T-6 time from UPT. All of this discussion about logging UPT time seems incredibly silly.

I tend to disagree. For what it's worth coming from someone who's flown their ass off the past three years in the civilian world I would recomend that you take the time and log it. I know it's not much especially when you compare it with what you will potiential log through your career, but you never know what might happen (DQ) and that little bit of turbine PIC could make a difference later on. I know plenty of people right now that would love to have 100 hrs turbine PIC. Plus it will be cool to one day look back and remember when you were flying the t6 where you went who you were with how bad you screwed up etc. etc.

edit for quote

Edited December 19, 2009 by kapilot

[F16Rooster]

Anyone gotten a KC-135/B707/B720 type rating lately?  I called my local FSDO today and they said they don't do that type rating anymore.  Maybe cause there aren't any more 707s flying???

[Homestar]

I put 707 on my ticket about two years ago at the D.C. FSDO. The guy thought it was pretty funny. 

[HuggyU2]

I was in Miami a week ago, and Pan Am Flight Academy has a 707 sim they do type ratings in.  They apparently have clients, 

Educate your FSDO. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by HuggyU2

[guineapigfury]

I picked up mine in Nov 2011 at the Baltimore FSDO.

[jango220]

Got mine added this past December at the Philadelphia FSDO. FAA Order 8900.1 figure 5-88 on the most current version (02 feb 16) shows that the KC-135 equates to the B707/B720 types.

[JarheadBoom]

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 4:26 AM, F16Rooster said:

Anyone gotten a KC-135/B707/B720 type rating lately?  I called my local FSDO today and they said they don't do that type rating anymore.  Maybe cause there aren't any more 707s flying???

faa.gov shows 11 707s with valid registrations still on the books, including one registered to Air Force Systems Command (N404PA).  Omega Air Refueling still flies at least two 707s, so there are at least two US-registered 707s still actively flying.  John Travolta still has his, although I've heard it doesn't fly often.

I can't speak to FSDOs handling of "that pilot shit", but on the MX side, FSDOs have been notorious for having their own interpretation of FARs, ADs, etc., and not accepting other FSDOs determinations on things.  I once worked for a FAR Part 133 operator that had an aircraft enroute to a jobsite impounded for nearly a week by the FAA, and the PIC's license temporarily suspended, because a particularly visible aircraft modification that had an FAA field approval from the company's home FSDO (back when field approvals were "easy" and commonplace) wasn't recognized by a FSDO rep in another region.

 

Call a FSDO in another region if your "home" FSDO won't cooperate; as an individual, you are not locked into using the FSDO whose region your home is located within.  Back in the days of the Philly FSDO being a bunch of lazy, geriatric, anti-military fucktards, many former military mechanics living in the Philly area went to the Allentown or Harrisburg FSDOs to get their "permission slips" to take the written & oral A&P tests.