Guard/Reserve timeline to UPT

[mightymighty]

@ryleypav To apply for an OTS school date my package had to be approved by NGB.

[ryleypav]

Off the street hire at a Guard Tanker Unit.

NOV Update: inching closer. again.

 

AFOQT/TBAS: July 2016

Board: November 2019

Hired:  November 2019

MEPS: Passed April 2020 amid the 'rona outbreak. 

Enlistment: June 2020.

FC1: September 29, 2020

FC1 Stamped Approved: Nov 2020

OTS: ??? 

UPT: ???

FTU: ???

[TotableMink]

On 11/13/2020 at 1:36 PM, mightymighty said:

@ryleypav To apply for an OTS school date my package had to be approved by NGB.

Does a Guard appointment letter indicate that your package has been approved by NGB? I also went to MEPS in June, still waiting on FC1 though. Last update from my unit seemed to indicate that they were waiting on the appointment letter, and that would generate OTS/UPT dates, which would in turn let them send me to wright pat for FC1? 

[N730]

Does a Guard appointment letter indicate that your package has been approved by NGB? I also went to MEPS in June, still waiting on FC1 though. Last update from my unit seemed to indicate that they were waiting on the appointment letter, and that would generate OTS/UPT dates, which would in turn let them send me to wright pat for FC1? 

You would not get OTS/UPT dates before your flight physical.

In fact, I didn't even think you could get your NGB package approved without a signed FC1.

And I know you can be sent for your FC1 before you even swear in with your unit.

So I'd check with your POC at the squadron, because it sounds like your recruiters might be a little confused.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

[FOX3]

17 minutes ago, TotableMink said:

Does a Guard appointment letter indicate that your package has been approved by NGB? I also went to MEPS in June, still waiting on FC1 though. Last update from my unit seemed to indicate that they were waiting on the appointment letter, and that would generate OTS/UPT dates, which would in turn let them send me to wright pat for FC1? 

I'm almost exactly in the same position as you.  Went to MEPS in June, and am waiting for FC1 right now. My recruiter told me once I have a background investigation open for an interim security clearance, he can submit to NGB for an "approve to appoint" (A2A) and then I can get my orders for FC1.  I just had my first background investigation interview last week to kick off the process for the security clearance.  

[mightymighty]

1 hour ago, TotableMink said:

Does a Guard appointment letter indicate that your package has been approved by NGB? I also went to MEPS in June, still waiting on FC1 though. Last update from my unit seemed to indicate that they were waiting on the appointment letter, and that would generate OTS/UPT dates, which would in turn let them send me to wright pat for FC1? 

@TotableMink Negative. I haven't heard of anyone who has gotten OTS/UPT dates before getting an approved FC1. I believe @FOX3 is correct by saying you need an appointment letter to request an FC1 though, or something along those lines.

[N730]

[mention=78727]TotableMink[/mention] Negative. I haven't heard of anyone who has gotten OTS/UPT dates before getting an approved FC1. I believe [mention=80217]FOX3[/mention] is correct by saying you need an appointment letter to request an FC1 though, or something along those lines.

If that's the case, it's new since of COVID.

I just checked with the guys my unit hired last year and one went to wright patt before he swore in and the other went after he swore in but before they submitted his appointment package. MEPS was the only requirement before our unit requested their physicals.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

[ryleypav]

14 hours ago, N730 said:

If that's the case, it's new since of COVID.

I just checked with the guys my unit hired last year and one went to wright patt before he swore in and the other went after he swore in but before they submitted his appointment package. MEPS was the only requirement before our unit requested their physicals.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

 

They change things all the time so it may be, but from what I know in my state (MI), we have to get our FC1 stamped approved, then include it in an ascensions package that routes up to the MI State Air Surgeon or just the MI Surgeon Gen or something along those lines. Once that is approved, then my unit can submit to the NGB for OTS/UPT dates. 

Which could have happened sooner. FC1 was stamped approved for 02NOV, I didn't find out until 16NOV because the techs at Wright Patt didn't have computer access during a contract negotiation......so that's neat.  

[JabroniWizard]

Off the street Guard/Fighter
Board: November 2020
Hired: November 2020
MEPS: December 2020
FC1: April 2021
OTS: ???
UPT: ???
FTU: ???

[mightymighty]

@JabroniWizard The other hire on my board went back to work at our squadron for 5 or 6 months after she was cross-commissioned.  It's worth asking your POC after you successfully pass MEPs and do your FC1. Congrats on the hire!

[N730]

They change things all the time so it may be, but from what I know in my state (MI), we have to get our FC1 stamped approved, then include it in an ascensions package that routes up to the MI State Air Surgeon or just the MI Surgeon Gen or something along those lines. Once that is approved, then my unit can submit to the NGB for OTS/UPT dates. 
Which could have happened sooner. FC1 was stamped approved for 02NOV, I didn't find out until 16NOV because the techs at Wright Patt didn't have computer access during a contract negotiation......so that's neat.  

That checks with almost everyone I know that went through the process. Myself included. It sucks that it's just one wait after another, but I doubt they're going to streamline the process at this point haha.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

[ryleypav]

1 hour ago, N730 said:

That checks with almost everyone I know that went through the process. Myself included. It sucks that it's just one wait after another, but I doubt they're going to streamline the process at this point haha.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app
 

Oh no doubt. I know this is the way. But, on the bright side, one less obstacle to cross. So there's that. 

[ryleypav]

3 hours ago, JabroniWizard said:

Off the street Guard/Fighter

Board: November 2020

Hired: November 2020 (last week, still waiting to hear back from recruiter)

MEPS: ???

FC1: ???

OTS: ???

UPT: ???

FTU: ???

 

Quick Question:

After you guys swear into the unit, what can you do for the squadron in terms of support/work? Are they still giving rides to people after they swear in to get used to the airframe? Or is that just yesterdays AF.

Off the street, you're probably going to be doing a lot of hanging out and doing nothing of substance while you wait for training. They'll put you in some AFSC for purposes of enlisting, but it may be completely unrelated, and not even in your hiring squadron. Just depends. Even then you'll likely still do nothing. Thats been my experience at least. I just use drill weekends as a time to continue to get to know the pilots. There are a lot of briefings you won't be able to sit in on at this stage without a TS clearance. I've never heard of units giving new-hires rides. Those are typically reserved for dudes who have done something special or have shown exemplary work ethic in the squadron. But, I also dont know jack, so YMMV. Also, its entirely possible to do you FC1 before you enlist with the unit, there were several guys at my FC1 who had not enlisted yet. But its beneficial to enlist asap, because then you get paid during drill. I think if you live a ways away from the base its a different story. If you've ever had any surgeries (aside from simple things like wisdom teeth) start getting all of your med records from that surgery. It can take a while for Dr. offices to get those, and you'll need them for MEPS. 

What you could do, and I've started doing so as advice from one of my units pilots, is start tracking everything you have done/will do post-hiring. Make it into a neat document for future hires. Things like what you had to do getting uniforms ordered, or computer access, anything that will be useful to the next guy getting hired. If there was some little trick you found to get X done quicker. You'll soon find out everyone on base acts like you're the first guy to get hired off the street and no one knows what the heck is going on. Even though that's not usually the case.

[Metalhead731]

Hey, all. I’m a recent off-the-street hire. I received the call first week in November and was told to reach out to the recruiter. I contacted the recruiter and he told me that we would tell the retention manager to reach out to me with instructions, and if I didn’t hear from him to let him know. It’s been a few weeks now and I haven’t heard anything. I follow up about once a week with the recruiter to tell him I still haven’t been contacted by the retention manager and every time he says he’ll reach out again. 

Is it normal to wait this long for even the first set of instructions? I don’t mind the whole “hurry up and wait” of it all, but I haven’t even started filling out any paperwork to start processing so I feel like time is being wasted. Should I keep waiting for the recruiter or try to find the contact information of the retention manager and reach out to him myself?

[JabroniWizard]

Hey, all. I’m a recent off-the-street hire. I received the call first week in November and was told to reach out to the recruiter. I contacted the recruiter and he told me that we would tell the retention manager to reach out to me with instructions, and if I didn’t hear from him to let him know. It’s been a few weeks now and I haven’t heard anything. I follow up about once a week with the recruiter to tell him I still haven’t been contacted by the retention manager and every time he says he’ll reach out again. 

Is it normal to wait this long for even the first set of instructions? I don’t mind the whole “hurry up and wait” of it all, but I haven’t even started filling out any paperwork to start processing so I feel like time is being wasted. Should I keep waiting for the recruiter or try to find the contact information of the retention manager and reach out to him myself?

Kind of in the same boat. Was told to wait to here from the recruiter over 2 weeks ago. It being the holidays and covid I’m sure things are moving really slow.

[N730]

Hey, all. I’m a recent off-the-street hire. I received the call first week in November and was told to reach out to the recruiter. I contacted the recruiter and he told me that we would tell the retention manager to reach out to me with instructions, and if I didn’t hear from him to let him know. It’s been a few weeks now and I haven’t heard anything. I follow up about once a week with the recruiter to tell him I still haven’t been contacted by the retention manager and every time he says he’ll reach out again. 

Is it normal to wait this long for even the first set of instructions? I don’t mind the whole “hurry up and wait” of it all, but I haven’t even started filling out any paperwork to start processing so I feel like time is being wasted. Should I keep waiting for the recruiter or try to find the contact information of the retention manager and reach out to him myself?

Kind of in the same boat. Was told to wait to here from the recruiter over 2 weeks ago. It being the holidays and covid I’m sure things are moving really slow.

My recruiter reached out to me about 10 days after my selection with some medical screening/MEPS forms for me to complete. The holidays will make things harder, but if it takes too much longer, I'd reach out the your POC with the hiring squadron and get clarification on what to expect. It shouldn't take a month to send a few emails.

Throughout my process, I tried not to "bother" the pilot they told me would be my POC and trust recruiting to do their jobs. If I'd reached out to my POC when things weren't passing the smell test, I'd have gotten to OTS and UPT about 6 months earlier than I did.

Don't call every day, but annoy the recruiter and make them get your shit done. If you're getting no movement, get your hiring squadron involved. Sure, it might rub the recruiters the wrong way, but it's better than sitting on your thumbs for 2-3 months waiting for them to finish something that should take 2-3 days.

Bottom line, no one cares about your process more than you do. This process is long enough without added delays created by the recruiters being lazy.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

[FDNYOldGuy]

On 11/29/2020 at 1:38 PM, N730 said:

hroughout my process, I tried not to "bother" the pilot they told me would be my POC and trust recruiting to do their jobs. If I'd reached out to my POC when things weren't passing the smell test, I'd have gotten to OTS and UPT about 6 months earlier than I did.

Don't call every day, but annoy the recruiter and make them get your shit done. If you're getting no movement, get your hiring squadron involved. Sure, it might rub the recruiters the wrong way, but it's better than sitting on your thumbs for 2-3 months waiting for them to finish something that should take 2-3 days.

Bottom line, no one cares about your process more than you do. This process is long enough without added delays created by the recruiters being lazy.

This 100%. Waiting for the recruiter or hiring folks to be the driver and guide you will certainly mean delays in you getting started. If you can get ahead by having required paperwork done before they ask, you’ll help yourself out immensely. There’s a litany of basic paperwork you need filled out before moving forward, so just being able to hand email that to the recruiter before they ask is huge.

@Metalhead731 and @JabroniWizard, I don’t remember all of the forms I needed, but there’s a stack of them. I can’t remember whether I got a list and I haven’t been able to locate one through some quick email/Google-fu. What I have found is some of the number/word salad of documents requested, all of which can be Googled or pulled from the AF E-Pubs Site. 

My list might not be what’s currently needed or complete and my experience is only with the Reserves, not the Guard, so YMMV. Here goes: AF Reserve Application, SOU, PRC, AF 2030, and AF 883. 

Before MEPS, I have an email to fill out the AF 2807-2 and hand sign/initial it (I am pretty sure I turned one in before MEPS so the recruiter could look over it) and AF 680. Anything you have on the 2807, start getting all the documentation you can from your doctors. They’re gonna ask, so you can mitigate delays if you have the info already.

If you really run into delays with recruiters, you might be able to get help from your hiring unit’s point of contact. They can call the recruiters and get some wheels moving, if you’re really hitting a wall. Just also realize the recruiter is a gatekeeper, so don’t piss them off too much; you need them to get you through a lot before starting.

Lastly, and not to put out a disheartening note, but I’d be very patient and expect for things to start slowing quite a bit more. COVID and the boomeranging retention has wreaked havoc on the pipeline. I’ve heard from more than a few folks that Reserve UPT boards are really tightening up their selection criteria, FC1s have been tough to come by, and UPT slots available are lower for FY21 than the number of bodies already hired/waiting to go. 

Again, I’m not involved with any hiring, it can all change overnight, and it could all be hearsay. I’m not trying to rain on the parade; just keep expectations reasonable from what my take is on the current situation. As always, YMMV. 

[JabroniWizard]

This 100%. Waiting for the recruiter or hiring folks to be the driver and guide you will certainly mean delays in you getting started. If you can get ahead by having required paperwork done before they ask, you’ll help yourself out immensely. There’s a litany of basic paperwork you need filled out before moving forward, so just being able to hand email that to the recruiter before they ask is huge.
[mention=80171]Metalhead731[/mention] and [mention=80588]JabroniWizard[/mention], I don’t remember all of the forms I needed, but there’s a stack of them. I can’t remember whether I got a list and I haven’t been able to locate one through some quick email/Google-fu. What I have found is some of the number/word salad of documents requested, all of which can be Googled or pulled from the AF E-Pubs Site. 
My list might not be what’s currently needed or complete and my experience is only with the Reserves, not the Guard, so YMMV. Here goes: AF Reserve Application, SOU, PRC, AF 2030, and AF 883. 
Before MEPS, I have an email to fill out the AF 2807-2 and hand sign/initial it (I am pretty sure I turned one in before MEPS so the recruiter could look over it) and AF 680. Anything you have on the 2807, start getting all the documentation you can from your doctors. They’re gonna ask, so you can mitigate delays if you have the info already.
If you really run into delays with recruiters, you might be able to get help from your hiring unit’s point of contact. They can call the recruiters and get some wheels moving, if you’re really hitting a wall. Just also realize the recruiter is a gatekeeper, so don’t piss them off too much; you need them to get you through a lot before starting.
Lastly, and not to put out a disheartening note, but I’d be very patient and expect for things to start slowing quite a bit more. COVID and the boomeranging retention has wreaked havoc on the pipeline. I’ve heard from more than a few folks that Reserve UPT boards are really tightening up their selection criteria, FC1s have been tough to come by, and UPT slots available are lower for FY21 than the number of bodies already hired/waiting to go. 
Again, I’m not involved with any hiring, it can all change overnight, and it could all be hearsay. I’m not trying to rain on the parade; just keep expectations reasonable from what my take is on the current situation. As always, YMMV. 

Received. Appreciate the assist, as always!

[OptFire]

I was unfortunately just told by my squadron that my packet won't be sent to AFRC boards for the time being because my PCSM is too low for the abysmal selection rates. I still have my job offer so I'm not totally defeated, but feeling really bummed out right now. I'm guessing I should retake the AFOQT/TBAS since I have one more attempt on each. Is it even possible to take these tests right now? 

The whole person concept still applies but it pays to have a high PCSM score. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by OptFire

[CharlieHotel47]

On 12/3/2020 at 2:36 PM, OptFire said:

I was unfortunately just told by my squadron that my packet won't be sent to AFRC boards for the time being because my PCSM is too low for the abysmal selection rates. I still have my job offer so I'm not totally defeated, but feeling really bummed out right now. I'm guessing I should retake the AFOQT/TBAS since I have one more attempt on each. Is it even possible to take these tests right now? 

The whole person concept still applies but it pays to have a high PCSM score. 

That sounds pretty wild and unfortunate. It might help the bros on here to share the PCSM score range that kicked it back to better gouge their chances. Study up, re-hack, retake and crush it! Good luck! 

[SubsidedRhyme11]

On 12/3/2020 at 3:36 PM, OptFire said:

I was unfortunately just told by my squadron that my packet won't be sent to AFRC boards for the time being because my PCSM is too low for the abysmal selection rates. I still have my job offer so I'm not totally defeated, but feeling really bummed out right now. I'm guessing I should retake the AFOQT/TBAS since I have one more attempt on each. Is it even possible to take these tests right now?

The whole person concept still applies but it pays to have a high PCSM score. 

That's a bum deal man I'm sorry to hear this. Last I heard AFRC is requiring a 70 PCSM score minimum for the boards. Definitely work with your unit and see what score you have to bump up to. I would retake the TBAS over the AFOQT (less risk for the reward). Let us know your AFOQT Pilot/PCSM/flight hours to see which component it's worth retaking.

Edited December 5, 2020 by SubsidedRhyme11

[FDNYOldGuy]

33 minutes ago, SubsidedRhyme11 said:

Last I heard AFRC is requiring a 70 PCSM score minimum for the boards.

The problem is that folks that are below 80 PCSMs are competing against hired folks with higher PCSMs for fewer and fewer available AFRC UPT slots.

Sewing circle says AFRC is allotted (numbers likely not 100% accurate) ~60 slots for FY21 UPT with 100+ people hired by Reserves units waiting to go. Since “they” feel PCSM is one of the better predictors of UPT success, they’re likely picking people with higher PCSM scores in their boards than lower to ensure the slots aren’t “wasted” on someone they think has a higher chance of washing out. 

[OptFire]

13 hours ago, SubsidedRhyme11 said:

That's a bum deal man I'm sorry to hear this. Last I heard AFRC is requiring a 70 PCSM score minimum for the boards. Definitely work with your unit and see what score you have to bump up to. I would retake the TBAS over the AFOQT (less risk for the reward). Let us know your AFOQT Pilot/PCSM/flight hours to see which component it's worth retaking.

No worries, I’ve had to push for this job the whole way so I expect to keep doing that until I earn my wings. 

I have an 83 Pilot AFOQT Score, PCSM is 74 with 140 flight hours. I can only raise it 4 more points for about $9000 in rentals xD. My PCSM was 35 before updating my flight log. I’ll definitely be retaking the TBAS first.

[FOX3]

21 minutes ago, OptFire said:

I’ll definitely be retaking the TBAS first.

On the off chance you hadn't seen them before, I found these training flashcards for spatial orientation practice super helpful.  

 

[SubsidedRhyme11]

14 hours ago, OptFire said:

No worries, I’ve had to push for this job the whole way so I expect to keep doing that until I earn my wings. 

I have an 83 Pilot AFOQT Score, PCSM is 74 with 140 flight hours. I can only raise it 4 more points for about $9000 in rentals xD. My PCSM was 35 before updating my flight log. I’ll definitely be retaking the TBAS first.

Ahh I gotcha! Best of luck going forward. Just some food for thought: I have an 82 Pilot AFOQT score and my 100+ hour bracket for PCSM is a 90. Most definitely retake that TBAS and study your ass off. Good luck man!