Do you love your job/airframe? If so, why?

[HU&W]

I did consider it, but there's one major thing that's keeping me away from the army: No fighters. My ultimate goal is to become a fighter pilot, and while I don't plan on it, I will never forgive myself for not trying my best. If I wasn't into fighters I would go Coast Guard without hesitating.

What are some examples of this "bs" that goes on so often in the air force (besides reflective belts)?

I'm curious what drives you to be a fighter pilot. Is it weapons employment? Is it pulling G's? Do you want to impact the fight? Is it the opportunity to do some crazy maneuvering or low level flight? Is it that you want to be what some consider the pinnacle of aviators? Do you want it so you can use it as a pickup line in bars/clubs?

If any/all of the above apply to you, you might be surprised to learn that those criteria aren't confined to the fighter community. They could be used to describe an Army Apache pilot, a C-130 pilot, fighters from any service, or a host of other combat airframes. Recommend you examine your priorities/desires and make a decision based on the opinions in this thread/forum and other info sources.

[Guest Alarm Red]

Just the standard stuff you get at any job. Like it or not, your job isn't to be a pilot. Flying is often a secondary or tertiary aspect of what you do. You will be farmed out to do some ground, be it scheduling, training (paperwork management, not instruction as a junior guy), safety, etc. It's really a standard 9-5 job, with all the associated office crap that goes along with it (See: Office Space).

The duty title on my OPR says 'Pilot'. All the things you listed above are additional duties. Nobody will know you as the best training officer in the wing, but they will know you as the best instructor (if you fit the bill).

You'll have the normal 10% of the guys who pull 90% of the load, and 90% of the guys who do nothing but sit on ass until the commander shows up and they put on their "i really am a good worker" game. There's always some line-of-sight tasking to be done, and stuff like that. Rules are always changing (generally back to what they were before the latest change came about) and every new leader thinks they've come up with the next great idea, when in reality they're just doing the same thing that's alway been done, just with a different three letter acronym to go along with it. You'll have a lot of CBTs to do (computer based training) and there's always a new requirement for another half dozen CBTs to accomplish before you can do something. Every incident causes a knee jerk chain reaction that results in ass pain for everyone, regardless if it was just an isolated one-moron event (like a DUI).

That blows, I'm glad that none of my 3 ops squadrons have been like that. You should look into switching MDS.

My advice would to be to pursue whatever it is you want to do, fighters, heavies, recce, whatever. Guaranteed there WILL be queep, office politics and general BS to be had WHEREVER you go, so don't make any sort of career decision based on trying to avoid it. There are two kinds of people who will tell you about what their job is like-- guys who will tell you stories about queep and BS, and ######ing liars.

Again, that sucks for you that it's like that in your community. In mine, as long as your squadron as a whole is a professional act, and can put up results in whatever operational taskings it receives, being just 'good enough' in additional duties will get you left alone.

[Guest CharlieFoxtrot]

I'm curious what drives you to be a fighter pilot. Is it weapons employment? Is it pulling G's? Do you want to impact the fight? Is it the opportunity to do some crazy maneuvering or low level flight? Is it that you want to be what some consider the pinnacle of aviators? Do you want it so you can use it as a pickup line in bars/clubs?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no. If I was doing it because I wanted some poozle I would've joined the Navy (sorry fellas, haha). Flying really fast in a small maneuverable jet while pulling Gs and blowing the shit out of the bad guys sounds friggin awesome. Its just the pure speed and maneuverability that attracts me to fighters. But, like I said before, if I'm inside the cockpit I'm happy, no matter the aircraft.

If any/all of the above apply to you, you might be surprised to learn that those criteria aren't confined to the fighter community. They could be used to describe an Army Apache pilot, a C-130 pilot,

Pulling Gs? I dunno. One of the things that attracts me to fighters is the sheer speed they fly at.

fighters from any service, or a host of other combat airframes.

Fighters from other services involve the boat, which I would like to avoid if at all possible.

Just the standard stuff you get at any job. Like it or not, your job isn't to be a pilot. Flying is often a secondary or tertiary aspect of what you do. You will be farmed out to do some ground, be it scheduling, training (paperwork management, not instruction as a junior guy), safety, etc. It's really a standard 9-5 job, with all the associated office crap that goes along with it (See: Office Space). You'll have the normal 10% of the guys who pull 90% of the load, and 90% of the guys who do nothing but sit on ass until the commander shows up and they put on their "i really am a good worker" game. There's always some line-of-sight tasking to be done, and stuff like that. Rules are always changing (generally back to what they were before the latest change came about) and every new leader thinks they've come up with the next great idea, when in reality they're just doing the same thing that's alway been done, just with a different three letter acronym to go along with it. You'll have a lot of CBTs to do (computer based training) and there's always a new requirement for another half dozen CBTs to accomplish before you can do something. Every incident causes a knee jerk chain reaction that results in ass pain for everyone, regardless if it was just an isolated one-moron event (like a DUI).

If you want to be a professional in ANY job, military or civilian, you will deal with just about the same crap. The military really isn't that different from any other corporate job, we just get to wear cool zipper suits and sometimes get to play with cool toys that someone else is paying for.

My advice would to be to pursue whatever it is you want to do, fighters, heavies, recce, whatever. Guaranteed there WILL be queep, office politics and general BS to be had WHEREVER you go, so don't make any sort of career decision based on trying to avoid it. There are two kinds of people who will tell you about what their job is like-- guys who will tell you stories about queep and BS, and ######ing liars.

I'd expect that stuff to go on anyway. At the moment I work at a trendy frozen yogurt place called "Pinkberry". The same crap goes on there, but I don't let it get to me. A lot of the employees are like "I hate this job" or "Omg I am so over this job" etc., but I tend to keep a positive attitude and I definitely don't let the "queep" keep me down. Then again, I'm not going to even try to compare serving desserts to flying multi-million dollar military aircraft.

If I didn't join the AF I'd probably go to law school and become a lawyer right out of college. I'd be dealing with the same crap, so I really don't see it as too much of a problem. I was under the impression that the crap in the AF was worse than in the civilian world. Add this to the military "do what you're told, when you're told, how you're told, no questions asked" and you have the recipe for a shitty job. That was the vibe I was getting.

[magnetfreezer]

If I didn't join the AF I'd probably go to law school and become a lawyer right out of college.

If you want to be a lawyer you'll fit in perfectly (sts) in today's AF.

[Techsan]

The duty title on my OPR says 'Pilot'. All the things you listed above are additional duties. Nobody will know you as the best training officer in the wing, but they will know you as the best instructor (if you fit the bill).

Your duty title really does say Pilot? Thats funny, because every duty title I've had starts off with something other than pilot...i.e. EXECUTIVE OFFICER/IAC.

I'm not sure what airframe/base you are from, but these days guys get better strats on their OPRs from being a kick ass office workers/training officer/ass licker than being a kick ass instructor. The leadership could give 2 shits if you can take gas from a tanker like a bad ass or land the jet better than Jesus. Just as long as you don't fuck anything up.

I obviously can't speak for every community, but in the heavy world, flying is the additional duty for 90% of the pilots. The other 10% are the guys in FTU learning the fly the jet.

If you want to be a lawyer you'll fit in perfectly (sts) in today's AF.

Every pilot is a lawyer...you have to be when reading your Vol 2 & 3.

"The way this reads to me is...."

[busdriver]

Life is bullshit, get used to it. While being a pilot is fun, it's also a job meaning you'll have a boss who you won't always agree with. Most of us young guys bitch and we're all a bit cynical. Why? Because we care about the mission. No matter what you do with your life, you'll always have aspects that piss you off and they're probably things you have no control over. Best advice? Worry about shit you can control, the rest will take care of itself.

[Bergman]

It's really a standard 9-5 job, with all the associated office crap that goes along with it (See: Office Space). You'll have the normal 10% of the guys who pull 90% of the load, and 90% of the guys who do nothing but sit on ass until the commander shows up and they put on their "i really am a good worker" game. There's always some line-of-sight tasking to be done, and stuff like that. Rules are always changing (generally back to what they were before the latest change came about) and every new leader thinks they've come up with the next great idea, when in reality they're just doing the same thing that's alway been done, just with a different three letter acronym to go along with it. You'll have a lot of CBTs to do (computer based training) and there's always a new requirement for another half dozen CBTs to accomplish before you can do something. Every incident causes a knee jerk chain reaction that results in ass pain for everyone, regardless if it was just an isolated one-moron event (like a DUI).

If you want to be a professional in ANY job, military or civilian, you will deal with just about the same crap. The military really isn't that different from any other corporate job, we just get to wear cool zipper suits and sometimes get to play with cool toys that someone else is paying for.

My advice would to be to pursue whatever it is you want to do, fighters, heavies, recce, whatever. Guaranteed there WILL be queep, office politics and general BS to be had WHEREVER you go, so don't make any sort of career decision based on trying to avoid it. There are two kinds of people who will tell you about what their job is like-- guys who will tell you stories about queep and BS, and ######ing liars.

What civilian work experience do you have? If you think being in a military flying squadron is similiar, in any way, to Office Space then I respectfully submit that either A) your squadron sucks ass or B) you have no real civilian experience. While there are less desireable additional duties in a flying squadron, I would take that 10 out of 10 times as compared to any office job. I don't have the time to give 69 examples right now, but suffice to say that at the very least the work you are doing in a miliary squadron is in some small way important to our country and it's citizens. Compare that to the civilian sector where what you are typically doing is helping someone, generally not YOU I might add, get rich. I'll take serving my country every time.

[Guest FtRuckerWO1]

Maybe you should consider being an Army warrant officer. They do make less money but all they do is fly. Very seldom do they get staff positions and definitely not until much later. If you like the fighter pilot mentality, you would like the Apache pilot mentality. Granted, the Army doesn't like the "cool" stuff like the AF does but you will get to shoot shit there. Otherwise, you had better develop the ability to cope with the "bureaucratic crap". Because it is in the O world of every branch.

:)

It's a lovely way to learn to fly.

Edited January 21, 2010 by FtRuckerWO1

[tac airlifter]

I obviously can't speak for every community, but in the heavy world, flying is the additional duty for 90% of the pilots. The other 10% are the guys in FTU learning the fly the jet.

I flew 130's for almost 5 years and this was not my experience at all. Everyone always told me how flying was secondary, but from what I saw that was only true if you allowed it to be true. I choose everyday when I went to work to make being good at my flying job my number 1 priority, and I'd like to think I succeeded. Did I catch some flak from my CC sometimes for flying instead of doing Flt/CC stuff? Sure, sometimes, but I always managed to get my ground job done.

My point: everyone will tell you how it is but ultimately you get to decide what kind of officer/pilot you're going to be. I decided to put flying first; I got lots of cool missions and I got the job I wanted next, so being a good pilot first worked out well for me. And as a Flt/CC, I always strated guys who put flying first, not the office trolls-- if we're going to turn this queep around that's how it starts.

[Guest Sandlapper]

At the moment I work at a trendy frozen yogurt place called "Pinkberry"...A lot of the employees are like..."Omg I am so over this job" etc....

Am I seriously going to the the first one to point out how funny this is? I mean, one time, my crew was all like "OMG the RVR is like 1600." And then I was all like "whatever". And they were all like "OMG."

(Seriously, though...congrats on your AF aspirations, but I'd keep the "Pinkberry" shit off your resume)

[Whitman]

Am I seriously going to the the first one to point out how funny this is? I mean, one time, my crew was all like "OMG the RVR is like 1600." And then I was all like "whatever". And they were all like "OMG."

(Seriously, though...congrats on your AF aspirations, but I'd keep the "Pinkberry" shit off your resume)

CF, do chicks as hot as Sarah Walker from "Chuck" work at your fruity yogurt shop?

[Guest CharlieFoxtrot]

Am I seriously going to the the first one to point out how funny this is? I mean, one time, my crew was all like "OMG the RVR is like 1600." And then I was all like "whatever". And they were all like "OMG."

(Seriously, though...congrats on your AF aspirations, but I'd keep the "Pinkberry" shit off your resume)

Are you kidding? Serving fruity yogurt is the manliest ######in job in the the world! I mean hey I gotta find work somewhere and it beats McD's or the "BK Lounge".

CF, do chicks as hot as Sarah Walker from "Chuck" work at your fruity yogurt shop?

No, but it is like the #1 store for hot chicks, and half the employees are gay or female so I don't have much any competition.

ANYWAY, back on topic...

If you want to be a lawyer you'll fit in perfectly (sts) in today's AF.

I know I'm a terrible person. I'll have you know I'm not THAT kind of lawyer.

[Vertigo]

half the employees are gay or female...

So which half do you fall in? The gay half or the female half?

[Guest CharlieFoxtrot]

So which half do you fall in? The gay half or the female half?

Half the employees are gay or female, which means 50% of all the employees are either gay or female. The other 50% are not. That's where I fall in.

Yay for math skills.

EDIT: -5 for pointing out the obvious? Jeez you people really do hate me.

Edited February 1, 2010 by CharlieFoxtrot

[FourFans]

Half the employees are gay or female, which means 50% of all the employees are either gay or female. The other 50% are not. That's where I fall in.

Yay for math skills.

Thanks for keeping honest on the semantics. You'll make a good exec some day.

Yay for lawyer skills.