Do you love your job/airframe? If so, why?

[JeepGuyC17]

Well, since you mentioned it - I think I saw this somewhere else on Baseops, but it seems to fit the current discussion.

Its in Italian, so I'm not sure but I think he says they make him wear a reflective belt.

Haha! "One of these days, I'll quit this nightmare"

[scoobs]

I'm still a little "wut?" at that post but I think what he's saying is that y'all are making it sound like being an AF Pilot is 99.9% miserable shit and 0.1% awesomeness.

At least one person got it. If you can't see it I'm sorry. One guy said he enjoys it and another person comes on and said wait till your out of the FTU. I understand everyone has problems at work but most people here sound unhappy.

[Seriously]

Weird... Every IP I fly with ends the brief something like this.

My standard answer to GK questions...

[pawnman]

At least one person got it. If you can't see it I'm sorry. One guy said he enjoys it and another person comes on and said wait till your out of the FTU. I understand everyone has problems at work but most people here sound unhappy.

Bitching is a standard military passtime, found in common all across history and in every culture with a standing army.

I did see the thread take something of a turn though. I'm guessing 90% (or more) of the folks on here love their primary job, flying. They love their aircraft. I think what they hate (I know it's what I hate) is that the USAF has gotten to the point where, even during combat operations in a deployed location, the flying becomes secnodary to whatever queep the leadership has decided to heap on us today.

[Spoo]

Bitching is all relative. You should c'mon down to the big house. Spend one week around here (or any staff job for that matter) and you'd be amazed at what your tolerance for deployed queep could be. Getting yelled at for no disco belt ON YOUR WAY TO THE JET sounds awesome.

[Jughead]

Spend one week around here (or any staff job for that matter) and you'd be amazed at what your tolerance for deployed queep could be.

!!2!!

That thought alone is making my current 179 (MC-12) seem like a dream job....

[LJDRVR]

Really interesting perspectives.

As far as the airlines, I agree with the sentiments expressed so far - the majors are not what they used to be. I will not take a 747 around the world with a stash of hot young stews in the back for playmates on layovers at five star hotels. I won't have twenty days off a month and make enough money to buy a P-51. (And there was a time - really!) I'm just as likely to get stuck in St. Paul during a -10 degree day with a bunch of militant gay flight attendants and a racist Jesus-freak Captain. (Which leaves booze and porn!)

But at the end of the day I get paid good money to fly great airplanes to reasonably interesting places. My wife works, which helps. In another couple of years these age 65 folks will be gone, that should help put me into the left seat, maybe then I'll be able to purchase airplane number two.

It's easy to get distracted and pissed by the crap. OPR's, EPR's, additional duties. In my world, evil gate agents who steal from our employees by not processing a jumpseaters request and leaving them stranded at the gate, all because their desire to get the flight out on time overrides any common courtesy and the fact that it only takes them thirty seconds to do the job. At the end of the day, I simply focus on the positive and getting my job done. Anybody not squarely in both of those camps (Mission oriented and positive) I don't have the time of day for.

Having a Cub in the hangar and a friend with a Pitts makes life a whole lot better. There's nothing in my life that fat tires, grass and pulling some G's doesn't fix instantly.

[Spoo]

There's nothing in my life that fat tires, grass and pulling some G's doesn't fix instantly.

Beer and weed will lighten the mood a bit.

[LJDRVR]

Hah! STS.

[slacker]

Bitching is all relative. You should c'mon down to the big house. Spend one week around here (or any staff job for that matter) and you'd be amazed at what your tolerance for deployed queep could be. Getting yelled at for no disco belt ON YOUR WAY TO THE JET sounds awesome.

3!

[jrobe]

Any, Ips have updated info -- PPTs (CAPES/Lifestyle brief) for upt studs to look at. I have alot of buds here at ENJJPT that would like to make an informed decision when drop night rolls around -- the info on Heavies has been to say the least very lacking. Please PM if you can I plan to put an assignment breif together for them.

The only info I have is for Hercs which is dated now

Co's any info would be greatly appreciated from you guys as well (Flt time, deployments, upgrades, family life -- Non vols ect).

Side bar any info on the FRED would be greatly appreciated personally I'll be at TRAVIS around the Aug time frame.

EDIT: for I before E

Edited January 18, 2010 by jrobe

[stract]

someone should request a helo and see what happens...

p.s. brief is spelled brief.

[jrobe]

someone should request a helo and see what happens...

p.s. brief is spelled brief.

We are all dumber for your input -- thanks for wasting the vital resource known as air...god bless

[Guest CharlieFoxtrot]

Should I just choose another service? It seems there is tons of bureaucratic crap in the AF, and I have very little tolerance for that stuff. The things that draw me to the AF are the ability to fly Bombers/Heavies and not having to live on a boat. It has been my lifelong dream to become a military pilot, and I would really like to be a fighter pilot (although statistically that is not likely to happen). If I'm in the cockpit I'm happy, period. And if I don't get to be a pilot, I'm sure I'll find another job I like (EWO, WSO, etc.) Is the "bullshit" in the airforce so bad that it makes you hate everything non-flying about your job? Should I do the boat if it means escaping this stuff? If I join the Navy I get to travel everywhere and I won't get UAVs. Is that a better option than the air force?

Edited January 19, 2010 by CharlieFoxtrot

[brabus]

All the services are this way...according to friends I know in each of the other ones. I sometimes think the Navy has got to be better, until I talk with my bros who fly helos and fighters in the Navy. They have the exact same bullshit, different name. I have a good friend who's an Army Ranger and for every retarded story I have, he has one too. The grass is always greener on the other side. Don't let all the bitching here get you down (sts). Yeah, there's a lot of gay shit in the military, but the pros far outweigh the cons when it comes to being a pilot. And you know what, if the BS becomes too much to be worth flying military aircraft, well you're probably at or near the point you can choose to get out anyways. Stick with your dream and fly for the AF. You won't regret it, but you will regret not trying.

[Guest CharlieFoxtrot]

All the services are this way...according to friends I know in each of the other ones. I sometimes think the Navy has got to be better, until I talk with my bros who fly helos and fighters in the Navy. They have the exact same bullshit, different name. I have a good friend who's an Army Ranger and for every retarded story I have, he has one too. The grass is always greener on the other side. Don't let all the bitching here get you down (sts). Yeah, there's a lot of gay shit in the military, but the pros far outweigh the cons when it comes to being a pilot. And you know what, if the BS becomes too much to be worth flying military aircraft, well you're probably at or near the point you can choose to get out anyways. Stick with your dream and fly for the AF. You won't regret it, but you will regret not trying.

Are you kidding? I'd pull my teeth out with a rusty wrench if it meant becoming a military pilot. I'm perfectly willing to put up with the bullshit the AF throws at me, but I'd prefer not to.

On a side note what does "sts" mean?

[busdriver]

We are all dumber for your input -- thanks for wasting the vital resource known as air...god bless

It was a joke chief, albeit a bad one. Realize that as close as 6 years ago helos had a very bad rap in pilot training. So much so that if you put them first, you might get an appointment with the flight commander to "discuss" your choice. Those of us that chose that route despite "career suicide" advice have a bit of warped sense of humor about it. Now imagine a student at ENJJPT requesting helos under those circumstances...

That said, I don't think it's even an option to modern ENJJPT guys anyways, so whatever.

EDIT: I stand corrected

Edited January 19, 2010 by busdriver

[Silentcom]

On a side note what does "sts" mean?

[Guest Lockjaw25]

Interestingly enough, there was a guy at Rucker in the last year who was an ENJJPT grad, he went 60s...

[Herk Driver]

Should I just choose another service?

Yes

Is the "bullshit" in the airforce so bad that it makes you hate everything non-flying about your job?

Yes

Should I do the boat if it means escaping this stuff?

Yes

If I join the Navy I get to travel everywhere and I won't get UAVs. Is that a better option than the air force?

Yes

[Guest CharlieFoxtrot]

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Wow, you're serious. Care to elaborate?

[Toasty]

Herks are a mixed blessing, as I'm sure Herk Driver is alluding to. You fly a real airplane, with a real crew that you have to manage and lead, and you are capable of doing some really cool sh*t with tactical airlift.

That being said, you have an extremely high ops tempo (3 to 4 back to back 120 day rotations can be expected in some squadrons). You'll probably never fly to the level that you are trained (expect alot of NVG airland, no formation, and very little airdrop). And despite the ops tempo, you will be hounded for the 4 months you are home to complete the same semi-annuals that the rest of the Air Force gets 6 months to complete. You'll take twice as many PFT's, checkrides, and CBTs, to keep you from coming due while deployed (god forbid).

Now with THAT being said, there isn't much in the world more fun than taking a two-ship to Canada for a week of booze, low-levels, and women, which is what we do best. Its a mixed blessing.

[OverTQ]

Should I just choose another service? It seems there is tons of bureaucratic crap in the AF, and I have very little tolerance for that stuff. The things that draw me to the AF are the ability to fly Bombers/Heavies and not having to live on a boat. It has been my lifelong dream to become a military pilot, and I would really like to be a fighter pilot (although statistically that is not likely to happen). If I'm in the cockpit I'm happy, period. And if I don't get to be a pilot, I'm sure I'll find another job I like (EWO, WSO, etc.) Is the "bullshit" in the airforce so bad that it makes you hate everything non-flying about your job? Should I do the boat if it means escaping this stuff? If I join the Navy I get to travel everywhere and I won't get UAVs. Is that a better option than the air force?

Maybe you should consider being an Army warrant officer. They do make less money but all they do is fly. Very seldom do they get staff positions and definitely not until much later. If you like the fighter pilot mentality, you would like the Apache pilot mentality. Granted, the Army doesn't like the "cool" stuff like the AF does but you will get to shoot shit there. Otherwise, you had better develop the ability to cope with the "bureaucratic crap". Because it is in the O world of every branch.

[Guest CharlieFoxtrot]

Maybe you should consider being an Army warrant officer. They do make less money but all they do is fly. Very seldom do they get staff positions and definitely not until much later. If you like the fighter pilot mentality, you would like the Apache pilot mentality. Granted, the Army doesn't like the "cool" stuff like the AF does but you will get to shoot shit there. Otherwise, you had better develop the ability to cope with the "bureaucratic crap". Because it is in the O world of every branch.

I did consider it, but there's one major thing that's keeping me away from the army: No fighters. My ultimate goal is to become a fighter pilot, and while I don't plan on it, I will never forgive myself for not trying my best. If I wasn't into fighters I would go Coast Guard without hesitating.

What are some examples of this "bs" that goes on so often in the air force (besides reflective belts)?

Edited January 20, 2010 by CharlieFoxtrot

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I did consider it, but there's one major thing that's keeping me away from the army: No fighters. My ultimate goal is to become a fighter pilot, and while I don't plan on it, I will never forgive myself for not trying my best. If I wasn't into fighters I would go Coast Guard without hesitating.

What are some examples of this "bs" that goes on so often in the air force (besides reflective belts)?

Just the standard stuff you get at any job. Like it or not, your job isn't to be a pilot. Flying is often a secondary or tertiary aspect of what you do. You will be farmed out to do some ground, be it scheduling, training (paperwork management, not instruction as a junior guy), safety, etc. It's really a standard 9-5 job, with all the associated office crap that goes along with it (See: Office Space). You'll have the normal 10% of the guys who pull 90% of the load, and 90% of the guys who do nothing but sit on ass until the commander shows up and they put on their "i really am a good worker" game. There's always some line-of-sight tasking to be done, and stuff like that. Rules are always changing (generally back to what they were before the latest change came about) and every new leader thinks they've come up with the next great idea, when in reality they're just doing the same thing that's alway been done, just with a different three letter acronym to go along with it. You'll have a lot of CBTs to do (computer based training) and there's always a new requirement for another half dozen CBTs to accomplish before you can do something. Every incident causes a knee jerk chain reaction that results in ass pain for everyone, regardless if it was just an isolated one-moron event (like a DUI).

If you want to be a professional in ANY job, military or civilian, you will deal with just about the same crap. The military really isn't that different from any other corporate job, we just get to wear cool zipper suits and sometimes get to play with cool toys that someone else is paying for.

My advice would to be to pursue whatever it is you want to do, fighters, heavies, recce, whatever. Guaranteed there WILL be queep, office politics and general BS to be had WHEREVER you go, so don't make any sort of career decision based on trying to avoid it. There are two kinds of people who will tell you about what their job is like-- guys who will tell you stories about queep and BS, and ######ing liars.