Enlisted to Pilot

[Guest Booty]

Hi everyone. Im in a dire need of some help. I have wanted to be a pilot since i was old enough to walk. It has been my dream. I couldn't afford college after high school so i did what i though was best...i enlisted in the Air Force as a F-16 Avionics Specialist. Now 3 years in, i am finally getting my chance at going officer but i feel like im approaching this all wrong. It seems like everyone i talk to has only 2 pieces of advice for me...1. Go to the Academy (well im 22 and damn me for not going out of high school but i didnt know any better and i didnt go, im sure theres another way) and 2. I have no chance at getting a pilot spot going ROTC unless i have 99s in everything. Bottom line is i want to go ROTC and i want to be a Pilot, there are 3 programs that i have been told is available for me and that is AECP, ASCP, and SOAR. I am making packages for ASCP and SOAR and hoping to have them in by June. I am taking the AFOQT in either April or May. I am studying the ARCO books but here on the base library there all the books from 2003! Basically the education office on base told me they will not help me out until i take the AFOQT so im curious as to what else im going to need to apply for those programs. Has anyone else gone enlisted to pilot with any information for me, i feel really really lost here and i really want to get going with it this year. Im taking the AFOQT around the same time im testing for SSgt and im opting out studying for Staff just to take this test. I keep hearing about this TBAS? Im stationed at Luke AFB in Phoenix so if your a pilot on base at the 61st AMU...no more code 3s on Friday..k thanks lol Thank you for the help!

[Big Bear]

Hey dude, relax. I did exactly the same thing you're doing about 5-6 years ago, and now I'm a pilot. I didn't go to the academy and I didn't have 99s in everything. In fact, ROTC is the easiest route to getting you a pilot slot. True, the academy grads get top choice on getting the slots, but if you work hard enough, it's pretty easy to get one out of ROTC. You pretty much just have to be qualified and not an idiot.

Here's what I did:

I took the AFOQT, did mediocre 50's to 60's, had a decent gpa from going to school part time while enlisted (Avionics on B-52's at Barksdale), I applied for ASCP (I have a good friend who's doing the exact same thing right now) and was accepted. I chose my school, worked my ass off there and got good grades (the most important factor out of ROTC getting a pilot slot, BTW, and I say that because that'll also affect your commander's ranking) retook the AFOQT after studying pretty hard the first summer I was there for it, and did much better since I knew what to expect and all. In hind sight, the AFOQT is only a small part of getting your slot anyway. Tried hard in ROTC at my school, and then started all over working for what I wanted when I got to UPT.

It's a long hard process, but it's totally worth it.

Here's my advice: Don't listen to whoever has been telling you that crap. They're probably from the academy, and have no idea how the ROTC program even works. Call an ROTC detachment and talk to one of the officers there and they can (or at least should) tell you exactly how the pilot selection process works for ROTC cadets, if you want to know. Also, ROTC's pretty gay, so is any other AETC training you'll do, so keep that in mind when you get there.

If you have any more questions, send me a private message, or whatever they call it here.

Big Bear

[Vice]

Dude, I'm going through the EXACT same thing, except you're two years ahead of me.

I've gone through my fair share of people putting their limiting beliefs on me, telling me things like "you'll never get a top secret clearance" or a Sgt from tech school saying "It's almost impossible for an enlisted person to become a pilot".

The Academy just isn't my preferred method of higher education, simply because I have more of an interest in enjoying my college years in a civilian environment with the discipline I've been taught in the past year pursuing a degree that I enjoy, rather than going through tech school again for four years.

The way I figure, the Air Force cares more about your APTITUDE than what avenue of education you take.

As for the ARCO books, just go out and buy them, so you can write/highlight in them.

I'm halfway through my CDC's and I'm going to start studying the ARCO military flight aptitude test book as well as the officer candidate book, so that'll give me two year's time to study that as well as get my private pilot's license.

Check out wantscheck.com if you already haven't, it's a great resource and they have all kinds of book and movie reccomendations.

It's good to see people talking about this on here, because there isn't that many threads on getting an enlisted scholarship

Edited February 14, 2010 by Vice

[Marco]

My .02 here. Have gone throught the testing process, both AFOQT, and Staff Sergeant, ALS, finishing college, etc. My advice: take care of the career you have NOW, before the career you are dreaming about. Perspective-not bashing you, just advising, NCO to Airman, with record numbers of people trying to join the military due to a collapsing job market, don't you think it would be a better idea to finish studying and testing for Staff before you attempt to take the AFOQT? It will not only look better on your military resume, but put some extra cash in your bank account that you can stash away while you go through the process of trying to become a pilot. Take it for what it's worth from a Guard dude. This and $0.35 will only get you a cup of coffee from the snack bar. Good luck.

[Guest Booty]

Thanks again for the advice everyone. Marco i do hear what your saying but the way i look at things is if i want to pursue my dream i need to act now and not later. Sure i have a career now, and sure making staff would be awesome but i believe making 2nd lt would be much more valueble to me. I technically am furthuring my career, id be going from making $37k a year to much..much more! I have one piece of advice that is keeping me motivated and that is "Winners don't wait for chances, they take risks." and im taking a very big risk not studying for staff and putting my faith on these packages but its something that i have to do. If i do make it this year and thats a big IF...yes i will be sad because i will miss O-1E pay by less than 1 year but knowing that i am pursuing my dream will make up for that.

The gameplan for now after talking with a few prior enlisted pilots who have given me some really good advice is study for the AFOQT, every which way i can but study for the AFOQT. Finish putting together my packages, get them in on time and pray.

[Vice]

Why not study for both?

On a side note, are my CDC test scores visible in my resume? I've been doing them just to do them so I can be clear of academic obligations so I can start flying lesson and studying for the AFOQT...

Booty, did you wait three years so you can get 100% GI Bill benefits?

Edited February 14, 2010 by Vice

[Big Bear]

For the record, you guys are right... Definentally study for Staff and take care of what you got now, because if you don't make it for one reason or another, you won't have burned any bridges.

It's certainly not impossible to study for both. I did, and I made both, so if my dumb redneck ass from Arkansas can do it, so can you guys.

Vice, your CDCs are very important, but once you're done with them, they may help you make SrA BTZ, and then nobody will ever care ever again what your scores were. Unless you fail them.

[Mox]

OTS not an option anymore?

[Vice]

For the record, you guys are right... Definentally study for Staff and take care of what you got now, because if you don't make it for one reason or another, you won't have burned any bridges.

It's certainly not impossible to study for both. I did, and I made both, so if my dumb redneck ass from Arkansas can do it, so can you guys.

Vice, your CDCs are very important, but once you're done with them, they may help you make SrA BTZ, and then nobody will ever care ever again what your scores were. Unless you fail them.

Thanks, that's definitely changed my outlook on them, but it may be too late; I scored a 78% on my final test, and I don't think I can really recover from that unless I score in the 90's and average the two scores (I only have two sets of CDC's).

And the study material for Staff & the AFOQT is way more interesting than my CDC's.

[Stunna]

Thanks, that's definitely changed my outlook on them, but it may be too late; I scored a 78% on my final test, and I don't think I can really recover from that unless I score in the 90's and average the two scores (I only have two sets of CDC's).

And the study material for Staff & the AFOQT is way more interesting than my CDC's.

Your final test as in your End of Course exam (EOC) or your final test as in you filled in the bubble sheet after answering the multiple choice questions in the CDC booklet? If it's just the one in the book, then that doesn't really count for anything other than a gauge of how well you studied the material/looked up the answers, so your supervisor knows if you are ready to go to the education office and take the EOC or not. If it was your EOC, and you have two actual sets of CDCs with two EOCs, then definately study harder for this next set, and then start studying whatever you want.

There's a reason that most shops won't allow you to pursue additional education until your CDCs are complete. They may seem boring, and even pointless to your overall career goal, but they do help you to know more about and to do your job now. If you don't excel at your current job, your leadership will be less willing to help you pursue your commissioning. As far as I remember you need reccommendation letters and such, and if your only a mediocre performer-or have the appearance of one, your commander will be less likely to endorse something like that. If you shine on your next EOC, the commander will remember your name for that when you gives you your day off, and if you continue to go above and beyond, people will continue to know who you are, making those letters easier to get.

Oh, and remember, CDC's are actually part of studying for Staff too... Just one NCOs viewpoint... PM if you've got questions.

[bagasticks]

enlisted marine, enlisted AF, ots, AFRC cockpit, ANG cockpit. . .

take care of your current career, network, get your education, advance. There are 10 way to skin this cat, and dont take advice from folks who didnt have the sack to do it for themselves. .

pm me if you want any specific advice. .

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Never did the process myself, but there are a lot of guys in my community who try to go down this road, usually FE or tech types, also navs and ABMs who occasionally try to get into the pilot world. The biggest piece of advice I can give you is love and excel at the job YOU CURRENTLY HAVE. Don't be one of those dudes who cruise around bitching about "coulda shoulda woulda" or talking non stop how you're going to be a pilot one day. The thing that seems to help the most is being shit-hot in the job you currently have, thus your rater and commander see that you have the potential to take on the greater challenge and responsibility of officership and being a pilot. You can know in your mind all you want about how good of a pilot you are, but if you're a shit _(insert current career here)___ who's going to believe you when you tell them you'd be a good pilot?

And don't take no for an answer. As guys have said, there are several ways to skin this cat, and until you're too old or too broken, you're never officially out of the game. Good luck!

[Big Bear]

Never did the process myself, but there are a lot of guys in my community who try to go down this road, usually FE or tech types, also navs and ABMs who occasionally try to get into the pilot world. The biggest piece of advice I can give you is love and excel at the job YOU CURRENTLY HAVE. Don't be one of those dudes who cruise around bitching about "coulda shoulda woulda" or talking non stop how you're going to be a pilot one day. The thing that seems to help the most is being shit-hot in the job you currently have, thus your rater and commander see that you have the potential to take on the greater challenge and responsibility of officership and being a pilot. You can know in your mind all you want about how good of a pilot you are, but if you're a shit _(insert current career here)___ who's going to believe you when you tell them you'd be a good pilot?

And don't take no for an answer. As guys have said, there are several ways to skin this cat, and until you're too old or too broken, you're never officially out of the game. Good luck!

Well said.

[Bronco130]

You pretty much just have to be qualified and not an idiot.

Bingo.

[dash-sixty]

Last July I was an active duty F-16 crew chief, this past February I was picked up for a pilot slot. I applied for the SOAR and ASCP programs in FY2008 and was selected for SOAR. I have very good scores; however, I have not yet attended AFROTC Field Training and this significantly hurts my overall score for this past board. I was surprised at the selection rate for the SOAR and ASCP programs, I think SOAR was nearly 100%. The fact is that there are usually a couple more slots than people who apply, and so if you meet the requirements you should have no problems getting picked. I did however serve as the best crew chief that I could, and at no point did I let my schoolwork or aspirations get in the way of that. This helped me get the signatures that I needed for my SOAR and ASCP packages.

Pilot selection through AFROTC is not too bad in my opinion as well. I mean, 10% of my order of merit score (what they use for pilot selection) was a zero due to out of cycle Field Training and I got picked up for pilot. I have heard of people with pretty rough stats getting picked up as well. The most important factor in getting the slot once you are in ROTC is being active, positive, and aggressive in your studies and ROTC. This, coupled with the fact that most if not all ROTC CC's and cadre will greatly value your prior enlisted experience and the path that you have taken, will make it very easy for you to succeed. The main thing that can get in your way is yourself. Just be willing to work at it and it will come.

With all of that said, remember that I said I did not let my ambitions hurt my performance as a crew chief. I never once walked around with a chip on my shoulder as well. I have seen others act in such ways and it has not worked out well for them. The truth is that I worked with incredible individuals with skill, personalities and work ethic to be admired. I have a lot of good memories working out on the flight line and being TDY. I'm sure you would agree. So, if this is what you want, I suggest that you pursue it as aggressively as possible without sacrificing your current position. If you have any specific questions please also feel free to ask. I know the paperwork for those packages can seem daunting. Take care and good luck.

Edited April 2, 2010 by dash-sixty