Military Accident Disclosure?

[Guest anonymous]

First of all, I searched for a similar post and found none, which is why I started this one. This being my first post here, I'm trying to abide by the rules.

Now for the hard question. Are former military aviators required to disclose their involvement in military aviation accidents/incidents to potential civilian employers? If so, how much can/should they disclose?

Informed opinions, guidance, and recommendations would be greatly appreciated...

Edited July 19, 2010 by anonymous

[Mickey]

Have you considered checking the yes container than stating "I was involved in a military accident"?

[AWACSEng]

I think he may be trying to avoid the esuing awkward situation the checking the yes box would cause.

To the OP, if you are still in the military, perhaps check with your Sq/Wg safety folks. They may be able to guide you in the direction you need to go. If not, maybe enlist the help of some past coworkers that might help you with the research.

[Learjetter]

Anonymous,

Check the 91-series AFIs. I think you'll find that the SAFETY investigation is not releasable outside the USAF. If there is also an ACCIDENT Investigation, that report IS releasable outside the USAF. Now, normally, the full AIB report is redacted to protect the identities of those involved...but sometimes not.

Now for the unsolicited advice: Check the YES box, and make your own written report of what happened: explain the situation, your role in the incident, what you learned from the experience, and how the experience makes you a better leader/aviator/etc.

Then rest easy knowing you kept your integrity intact. If they don't take you at your word--do you really want to work for them?

Easier said than done, I agree....but really, what other choice is there?

I've been involved in several "incidents" throughout my career--some serious ($$-wise), some not so serious. If I had to make the choice you're facing, I like to think I'd make the choice I described above.

Good luck.

[Guest anonymous]

Learjetter,

I am inclined to agree with your argument. However, I hope that by checking the "yes" box and giving an explanation I will not be voluntarily providing privileged information a civilian employer is either not entitled or allowed to have access to.

You mentioned another issue I hadn't considered. Aside from The Big One, I've been involved in several other minor, but reportable, incidents as well -- 3 engine failures and a bird strike. I guess I need to put those down too.

Thanks!

[Guest MadHatter]

Similar question, but going in the opposite direction:

I was the PIC of an Aeronca Champ on a day with a strong crosswind. I was performing a wheel landing, lost directional control, and the airplane then flipped when it hit a snowbank alongside the edge of the runway.

No injuries thankfully, but insurance totaled the aircraft and the FAA deemed it an accident and made me take some remedial TW training. This was 2+ years ago.

Fast forward to today: I am applying to Guard and Reserve units. Some units specifically ask on their applications "have you been involved in an FAA accident or incident?" When I respond "yes," is there a chance of being blacklisted, of sorts? Meaning, should I avoid these units all together? Will they warn other units or anything like that?

Let me be clear: I will always be forthcoming with the truth regarding the accident if asked. However, I do not want to shoot myself in the foot.

Edited January 13, 2012 by MadHatter

[brickhistory]

NOT a military pilot, but from personal experience in hiring folks, a very cursory search will turn up your name and an FAA accident. 'Fess up, note the remedial training AND the fact that you kept your ticket. The civil Feds didn't think you were a menace, so...

[NEflyer]

Someone who's been on the other side of the hiring process could probably shed more light on how it will effect your app. Assuming they don't mind, just be prepared to take heat for it in an interview. Assuming someone on the board has flown taildraggers, expect the question: Why were you doing wheel landings in significant crosswinds, instead of three (two with the wing into the wind) point landings? Or non specific questions like: Tell us about it? What have you learned? How can you prevent it from happening again? Was it a lapse in judgment, planning, or did you just get behind the aircraft? etc.

Edited January 16, 2012 by NEflyer

[Spur38]

As long and you tell the truth, you'll never have to remember what you've said....

Read the app and respond as honestly and accurately as possible. Having said that read the PIRA law information on the FAA site. The law pertains to Part 121 operators and the requirement for organizations to report pilot background and accident information and to share that information when requested. Part 91 operators are not required to respond.

Once you clear the initial hoops and get a face to face with the chief pilot, most operators will require you to sign a release authorizing a complete aviation background check. If you are using official military aviation personnel records they will undoubtedly and curiously inquire about accident/incident experiences. Once again be open and truthful. I've been on all sides of this issue and now, in a pilot hiring capability, I'd rather have a guy that has bent an aircraft and has learned from the experience, if he was faulted for the mishap, than a clean record liar.....the real discriminator in the new guy process is honesty and attitude....good luck with it....

[Guest]

What was the nature of your mishap?

[Guest MadHatter]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

What was the nature of your mishap?

I was landing on runway 33. Winds were reported 240@10 at the nearest ATIS 8 miles away. That was the strongest crosswind component I had ever attempted, although two weeks prior I had no problem with 9 knots, so I though I could handle 10. I elected to do a wheel landing because that was what I'd been taught to do on windy landings.

Coming down final was bumpy, but initial touchdown was fine and on centerline. As I was rolling out with the tail still off the ground, a gust weathervaned me and I ended up halfway towards the runway edge but tracking straight down the runway. Before I had a chance to correct back toward centerline, another gust hit me, and I headed toward the runway edge. (Runway was 50' wide.) It had snowed recently, and all the snow pushed off the runway formed a 3 foot tall bank/border around the runway. Once I hit that, the plane flipped immediately.

What I did wrong:

-Improper use of the wheel landing technique. I think I kept the tail off too long, allowing myself to get into an airspeed where the rudder is not very effective, but the tailwheel is off the ground, so I had little directional control.

-Bad decision-making. I was aware that it was the strongest crosswind I had ever faced, but I failed to account for the fact that this was the narrowest runway I had ever landed on.

Edited January 15, 2012 by MadHatter

[SocialD]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I was landing on runway 33. Winds were reported 240@10 at the nearest ATIS 8 miles away. That was the strongest crosswind component I had ever attempted, although two weeks prior I had no problem with 9 knots, so I though I could handle 10. I elected to do a wheel landing because that was what I'd been taught to do on windy landings.

Coming down final was bumpy, but initial touchdown was fine and on centerline. As I was rolling out with the tail still off the ground, a gust weathervaned me and I ended up halfway towards the runway edge but tracking straight down the runway. Before I had a chance to correct back toward centerline, another gust hit me, and I headed toward the runway edge. (Runway was 50' wide.) It had snowed recently, and all the snow pushed off the runway formed a 3 foot tall bank/border around the runway. Once I hit that, the plane flipped immediately.

What I did wrong:

-Improper use of the wheel landing technique. I think I kept the tail off too long, allowing myself to get into an airspeed where the rudder is not very effective, but the tailwheel is off the ground, so I had little directional control.

-Bad decision-making. I was aware that it was the strongest crosswind I had ever faced, but I failed to account for the fact that this was the narrowest runway I had ever landed on.

With tailwheel flying...there are those that have, and those that will! Present it the way you just did and you should be just fine. You have acknowledged that you fucked up (not made excuses), you learned from it and moved on. They will respect that much more than if you try to hide it. If they don't hire you because of that then fuck them, no one is perfect.

The Champ is still one of my favorite planes to fly!

[Guest]

no big deal.

[Beaver]

I think it's pretty cool, after the fact. A real life experience (that I hope I never have).