Predator Follow-on

[GKinnear]

Ha. That reminds me of my days at Laughlin back in the early 70s, where our "OG" (then called the DO) was discovered to be he highest time pilot in all of ATC one year. He was dual-qual'd in the 37 & 38 and flew 3 or 4 times a day, even when the weather was bad. He'd show up at 5AM, grab a student and go fly a "weather check", then go to the other squadron and do it again...two sorties by 0900 while no other wheel was turning on the whole base. Needless to say, the stud never got to touch the stick most of the time. We got calls from Houston Center wanting to know why that "Rake 02" guy was flying when all the weather reports were below minimums! Somehow he always "found a hole" (the rest of us couldn't even see the ramp!). Then he'd go down to his office to work for a while and show up again at 1400 for more sorties. He had something like 1600 hours in one year. He was a heck of a stick, but sure did draw a lot of attention He also had some great war stories about flying F-82 Twin Mustangs in Korea!

/sarcasm/ I'm surprised he had enough time to fly after planning all the christmas parties required to make rank.

[2xAGM114]

The drop at Cannon resulted in:

CV-22

C-130

B-52

KC-10

PC-12

2 x U-28

all were first choice assignments with the exception of the buff. We only had 7 eligible for this window so everybody was stoked to be at 100% plane assignments.

Unbelievable. There are still dudes at Creech in their 6th or 7th year of their VOLUNTARY "3 year Alpha tour" and they're allowing the UPT-D guys out? What about the TAMIs? As someone who served his sentence at Creech and was released for good behavior, I think THIS is what's wrong with the manning in the RPA community. And that's why so many are leaving at the conclusion of their ADSC...

[TAMInated]

As someone who served his sentence at Creech and was released for good behavior.

So YOU'RE the one. How'd you do it?

[HiFlyer]

/sarcasm/ I'm surprised he had enough time to fly after planning all the christmas parties required to make rank.

Simple...

a. It was in the pre-reflective belt days

b. It hadn't started to wind down in Vietnam yet ('69 when he got the job) and political correctness hadn't settled in yet.

c. He was an asshat and didn't give a flip about the rules once he took over, so things looked good from the outside for a while.

[Guest]

So YOU'RE the one. How'd you do it?

By quitting the AD USAF. He is separating and going to the Guard.

[TAMInated]

Doesn't count.

[Guest]

Roger.

[matmacwc]

Doesn't count.

KIO

[Guest]

KIO

I didn't say it was cheating, and even if it was, so what.

I'm saying it's not representative of a system change or a solution for the guys trapped that are looking for some hope. Because it isn't.

[ellsworb]

From what I’ve seen the majority of MC-12s have been given to senior Majs/LTCs who went VFR direct to the group or wing and have never been through a single shift rotation. In fact, the last guy to go spent 17+ years (manned) flying without interruption. God forbid some lowly squadron shift-worker get a “good deal.” I think what pisses me off the most is that I’m fighting to fly a damn king air in the desert for six months. It’s not like I’m demanding an F-22 to Anchorage.

This is true, and it is absolute bullshit. Porkchop, call Crush or myself tomorrow for some more fantastic gouge from the LR side.

[egochecks]

Those of us returning to fly got our training dates and locations yesterday. Looks like the POC at AFPC did a great job for all of us and it's very appreciated. Looking at the list I would say most guys (if not all) got their base of choice. Here are some of the details for those interested.

First guys will begin training (either H2O, SERE, or Refresher) in March with first PCS's taking place as early as Jun and the last of us (C-5 guys) PCS'g most likely around this time next year.

Refresher course will be prior Phase 3 a/c. T-38 course will be roughly 10 weeks, Tones roughly 7 weeks, and the two T-44 guys will tentatively spin up in the T-6 for roughly 7 weeks. Refresher training will take place at the various UPT bases (Vance, Laughlin, and Columbus) throughout the year.

Knowing now that we'll be spinning up at the UPT bases are there any IP's/FAIP's that have been a part of setting up the Refresher course who have any gouge or a general overview of how the training's going to look? If so, any info would be appreciated.

Thanks.

-Ego

Edited January 27, 2012 by egochecks

[TAMInated]

Congrats, good luck, and don't look back.

[egochecks]

Thanks, man, and wilco.

[matmacwc]

.

Refresher course will be prior Phase 3 a/c. T-38 course will be roughly 10 weeks, Tones roughly 7 weeks, and the two T-44 guys will tentatively spin up in the T-6 for roughly 7 weeks. Refresher training will take place at the various UPT bases (Vance, Laughlin, and Columbus).

Thanks.

-Ego

T-38s to what again?

[egochecks]

T-38s to what again?

For me personally, to C-5's.

For the bigger picture, there's no consideration of the "tactical" requirements of the follow on. It's simply the last a/c flown which I'm assuming makes the most sense in time required for familiarization.

[Kilgore Trout]

Those of us returning to fly got our training dates and locations yesterday. Looks like the POC at AFPC did a great job for all of us and it's very appreciated. Looking at the list I would say most guys (if not all) got their base of choice. Here are some of the details for those interested.

First guys will begin training (either H2O, SERE, or Refresher) in March with first PCS's taking place as early as Jun and the last of us (C-5 guys) PCS'g most likely around this time next year.

Refresher course will be prior Phase 3 a/c. T-38 course will be roughly 10 weeks, Tones roughly 7 weeks, and the two T-44 guys will tentatively spin up in the T-6 for roughly 7 weeks. Refresher training will take place at the various UPT bases (Vance, Laughlin, and Columbus) throughout the year.

Knowing now that we'll be spinning up at the UPT bases are there any IP's/FAIP's that have been a part of setting up the Refresher course who have any gouge or a general overview of how the training's going to look? If so, any info would be appreciated.

Thanks.

-Ego

In typical Air Force fashion, the UPT bases have no plan in place right now. I don't know if anyone below maybe a wing leadership level knows this is going to happen. I have no idea how the bases are going to absorb this because the flying hour program was cut for this year, the student load was subsequently increased (especially in phase 3 due to the T-44 program closing), and the effective IP manning rate is at its lowest it has been in a while due in part to the MC-12 deployments and the length of them increasing.

So, this is going to be fun to see how it is implemented. With most all classes behind the timeline this is going to be comical to watch.

[guineapigfury]

So, this is going to be fun to see how it is implemented. With most all classes behind the timeline this is going to be comical to watch.

What's not comical is these guys who were lucky enough to escape preds getting passed over for their next promotion because they got an empty OPR because they were sitting around for 8 months of casual status as captains while their peers were Flt/CCs and Shop Chiefs. I hope they make these dudes and dudettes priority 1, they deserve it.

[brabus]

What's not comical is these guys who were lucky enough to escape preds getting passed over for their next promotion because they got an empty OPR because they were sitting around for 8 months of casual status as captains while their peers were Flt/CCs and Shop Chiefs

What? There's a whole shitload of dudes who spent 6-9 months on casual, then a year plus on BIT after UPT doing jack shit. While obviously a crappy situation and not ideal (but infinitely better than other possibilities), they've got OPRs and will be fine...no way they get passed over for Maj just because of that.

[guineapigfury]

What? There's a whole shitload of dudes who spent 6-9 months on casual, then a year plus on BIT after UPT doing jack shit. While obviously a crappy situation and not ideal (but infinitely better than other possibilities), they've got OPRs and will be fine...no way they get passed over for Maj just because of that.

I suspect there's a difference between Lt time being squandered and Capt time being squandered. Some dude spending 8 months of casual status at the wrong time could easily miss out on that all important DP because he is in limbo with noone to watch his back. I can definitely see some guys getting sent off to SOS or grinding out a Masters in their downtime and coming out ahead from this situation but I also see some guys getting crushed by "bad timing". I really hope that you are right and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just paranoid. Anyway, congrats to the guys who found a way out of UAVs.

[ThreeHoler]

I suspect there's a difference between Lt time being squandered and Capt time being squandered. Some dude spending 8 months of casual status at the wrong time could easily miss out on that all important DP because he is in limbo with noone to watch his back. I can definitely see some guys getting sent off to SOS or grinding out a Masters in their downtime and coming out ahead from this situation but I also see some guys getting crushed by "bad timing". I really hope that you are right and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just paranoid. Anyway, congrats to the guys who found a way out of UAVs.

If a guy is "getting screwed" by being casual...he probably wouldn't have made the cut in the first place. You have to take care of yourself. Anyone who thinks they can sit back for a period of time and get carried through is an asshat. A dude on casual after training can take some of the pressure off the dudes on the line...taking care of office queep is pretty easy to do as a casual dude, and you know that dude isn't going to be in the books anyway.

[BFM this]

If a guy is "getting screwed" by being casual...he probably wouldn't have made the cut in the first place. You have to take care of yourself. Anyone who thinks they can sit back for a period of time and get carried through is an asshat. A dude on casual after training can take some of the pressure off the dudes on the line...taking care of office queep is pretty easy to do as a casual dude, and you know that dude isn't going to be in the books anyway.

Shack.

I watched a dude work his ass off while on an extended casual. What he had going for him was that he had already been around the block, and leveraged that experience to get shit done while everyone else sat around waiting to be told what to do. He finished up his last few months on casual as the OG's exec.

No shit. On casual.

Effect your own rescue.

[TAMInated]

Whatever, everyone knows all drone guys are future generals and colonels.

[guineapigfury]

If a guy is "getting screwed" by being casual...he probably wouldn't have made the cut in the first place. You have to take care of yourself. Anyone who thinks they can sit back for a period of time and get carried through is an asshat. A dude on casual after training can take some of the pressure off the dudes on the line...taking care of office queep is pretty easy to do as a casual dude, and you know that dude isn't going to be in the books anyway.

Alot of this depends on where that casual status happens. If you're casual at your gaining unit, they should feel they have a stake in you and might find you that job or whatever else that helps you out. If you're casual at a UPT base, they probably won't give a shit about you because you are TDY guy.

[brabus]

If you're casual at a UPT base, they probably won't give a shit about you because you are TDY guy.

Considering the vast majority of dudes do a casual stint at their UPT base prior to starting UPT, it's a wash. Nobody is getting screwed for having casual time. If you don't make Maj down the road, it has nothing to do with how much time you spent on casual or where it was (which your UPT base has been the only option for years now with minor exceptions).

[guineapigfury]

Considering the vast majority of dudes do a casual stint at their UPT base prior to starting UPT, it's a wash. Nobody is getting screwed for having casual time. If you don't make Maj down the road, it has nothing to do with how much time you spent on casual or where it was (which your UPT base has been the only option for years now with minor exceptions).

But this will be many guys' 2nd stint on Casual. UAVs started dropping the UPT class after mine, and my understanding is those are the dudes escaping. Average time on casual for my generation of dudes was 9 months. Figure that happens again and guys are missing 1.5 years on casual, and about 2-3 years for training out of their first 8 years. That's a-lot. I hope I'm missing something here. I'm making myself angry just thinking about this when I should just be happy for my friends leaving UAVs. I just see an easily preventable/foreseeable shoe-clerk fumble costing alot of pilots the game.