UAV (RPA) Operators to Recieve Flight Pay

[discus]

UAV pilots to get flight pay

By Michael Hoffman - Staff writer

Posted : Saturday Oct 10, 2009 9:13:12 EDT

Airmen will receive flight pay for the first time without ever leaving the ground.

The extra cash will go with the new unmanned aerial vehicle pilot career field approved Sept 29 by Air Force leaders at an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance summit in Washington.

Leaders also approved a career field for sensor operators, though officials are still working out the details to allow these airmen to receive flight pay.

Both UAV pilots and sensor operators, though, will receive wings for their uniforms similar to those worn by manned pilots and aircrew members.

The career fields, the incentive packages, the wings are all part of the Air Force’s ongoing shift to an unmanned fleet by 2047.

UAV pilots will receive the “18X” Air Force Specialty Code. It will be a “rated” career field and require airmen to serve a six-year active-duty service commitment.

Air Force officials have not settled on a name for the career field. Officials do not want “unmanned” in the name because Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz said the career field is anything but unmanned.

Sensor operators, enlisted airmen who sit next to the pilots and direct the sensors, will receive the “1U” AFSC, which will be a subcategory of Career Enlisted Aviators. It will require a three-year active-duty service commitment.

The whole story

I am so glad I receive flight pay to deal with a 40+ year old airplane, preform emergency ground egresses on a regular basis, have a high potential to get shot at, spend months away from home, etc. That flight pay is nice, and makes it all worth it. Wait... You're going to give NON-RATED Pred drivers WHAT?!?!?!?!?

[herkbier]

Think of it as "retention pay" in a career field that few want to be in..

[nunya]

Sounds like you need to volunteer for the UAVs, then. You could fly a brand new airplane, never emergency ground egress, never get shot at, never leave home, and STILL get flight pay. It'd be perfect, right?

[TacAirCoug]

Flight pay is INCENTIVE pay...to keep you in the cockpit (or in this case, the shipping container). It has nothing to do with how dangerous your job is. The title is your clue: Aviation Career Incentive Pay. Not "Oh My God I Just Shit My Drawers Because I Thought I Saw A SAM" pay.

[discus]

Flight pay is INCENTIVE pay...to keep you in the cockpit (or in this case, the shipping container). It has nothing to do with how dangerous your job is. The title is your clue: Aviation Career Incentive Pay. Not "Oh My God I Just Shit My Drawers Because I Thought I Saw A SAM" pay.

Fair Enough.

Maybe I'll just STFU and color. I was all for the non-rated UAV drivers getting their own wings, etc, etc. because they were filling up a slot not many people wanted on the rated side, and it is a good thing to motivate them to volunteer. It just chafed me, as I always thought of the FLY PAY (As seen on the LES) as my little extra kick for doing a fairly dangerous job. I guess not.

Edited March 10, 2010 by discus

[Vice]

Don't flight doctors and such need to have a minimum amount of hours per month to qualify for their flight pay?

[dream big]

"The career fields, the incentive packages, the wings are all part of the Air Force’s ongoing shift to an unmanned fleet by 2047."

Are they really trying to achieve a complete shift to unmanned Air Force aviation by 2047? Damn..

[Guest Rubber_Side_Down]

Don't flight doctors and such need to have a minimum amount of hours per month to qualify for their flight pay?

Yes.

[SuperWSO]

"The career fields, the incentive packages, the wings are all part of the Air Force’s ongoing shift to an unmanned fleet by 2047."

Are they really trying to achieve a complete shift to unmanned Air Force aviation by 2047? Damn..

In the fiftys, the big talking point was when we would become an "all jet" Air Force. Nice goal at the time, but we still aren't there and since our most recent acquisitions (MC-12, U-28, MQ-1,9, AT-6) are all prop driven, I don't think we are going to get there.

Somebody probably put together a white paper about an all UAV/UAS fleet by 2047, but it will be a cold day in hell before I get on a C/KC anything without a pilot. I know this has been discussed under other threads previously, but there is no benefit to removing the aviator from an aircraft loaded with people.

[ClearedHot]

...but there is no benefit to removing the aviator from an aircraft loaded with people.

Sure there is, it keeps the pilot safe when the airplane crashes.

[Riebs]

Isn't flight pay only a couple hundred extra bucks a month?? I think $125 for a new Lt...this should be raised.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Next thing you know they'll be wearing wings and leather jackets.

you mean like ABMs?

As for UAV guys getting "Flight Pay", also (correctly) known as Aviation Career Incentive Pay, I've got no beef with it, it's an incentive pay to do a dangerous or otherwise undesirable job. UAVs fit more into the second category for most dudes, at least pilots. If the extra cash gets some extra dudes to volunteer for UAVs so I don't have to do it, I'm ALL FOR IT. I hope they pay them triple.

[Guest Falco]

I completely agree, give these guys an ass load of cash, give them wings. For me, its not about the money or the bling, its about flying....in the air. If some dudes want to volunteer for this job because of the incentive bonus, awesome, more power to them. This at least gives the dudes who care about aviation a couple more decades before we are all ground-bound.

[nunya]

Isn't flight pay only a couple hundred extra bucks a month?? I think $125 for a new Lt...this should be raised.

It gets substantial after a few years. ($600-800+/month)

[usaf36031]

Isn't flight pay only a couple hundred extra bucks a month?? I think $125 for a new Lt...this should be raised.

Yeah, but for some reason all of the Army helo dudes down here at Rucker are absolutely convinced that we (Air Force pilots) are getting paid some kind of annual "incentive" bonus pay in the ball park of 15K. When I tell them that we don't, I get a "yeah right, I know better" kind of look. Like I'm hiding our good deal from them!

It's amazing what the rumor mill can produce, I get asked this at least once a week... usually in between the army guys sneakily looking around before asking me how they can get into the Air Force and fly hueys and not deploy.

Edited March 10, 2010 by usaf36031

[08Dawg]

So if these Pred operators are rated...do they have to go to SERE? Cause that chance of getting captured in Las Vegas is huge.

[Finance_Guy]

I completely agree, give these guys an ass load of cash, give them wings. For me, its not about the money or the bling, its about flying....in the air. If some dudes want to volunteer for this job because of the incentive bonus, awesome, more power to them. This at least gives the dudes who care about aviation a couple more decades before we are all ground-bound.

Key word is "in". I guess they will have to change the DoDFMR since it says to get ACIP, you must be "in" the craft. I would guess they would never qualify for subpar 2 below.

https://comptroller.defense.gov/fmr/07a/07a_22.pdf

B. Definitions

1. Aerial Flights. This term is defined as flights in military aircraft or spacecraft, and also flights in nonmilitary aircraft when required by competent orders to fly in such aircraft. A flight begins when the aircraft or spacecraft takes off from rest at any point of support located on the surface of the earth and terminates when it next comes to a complete stop at a point of support located on the surface of the earth.

2. Aviation Accident. This term means an accident in which a member, who is required to participate frequently and regularly in aerial flights, is injured or otherwise incapacitated as the result. The injury or incapacitation, as certified by the appropriate medical authority of the Uniformed Service concerned, may result from:

a. Jumping from, being thrown from, or being struck by, an aircraft or spacecraft, or any part or auxiliary thereof, or

b. Participation in any duty authorized aerial flight or other aircraft or spacecraft operations. This term also means an incapacity incurred as the result, as certified by appropriate medical authority, of performance of flying duty, even though such incapacity is not the result of an actual aviation accident.

[SuperWSO]

Yeah, but for some reason all of the Army helo dudes down here at Rucker are absolutely convinced that we (Air Force pilots) are getting paid some kind of annual "incentive" bonus pay in the ball park of 15K. When I tell them that we don't, I get a "yeah right, I know better" kind of look. Like I'm hiding our good deal from them!

When I did my last deployment with the Army, it was taken as gospel that the AF gave AF dudes deployed with the Army "Substandard Quarters Allowance". The ALO and I got this from just about every Army guy we worked with. When we said it didn't exist, they just told us we were missing out on big bucks.

[Radio]

This whole threat may be out of date. In late Feb, there was an announcement that RPA crews would receive an "Incentive Pay" that is very similar to "Flight Pay" but appears to be technically something else. This seems to have been a compromise so that manned aircraft could retain the sole right to earn "Flight Pay." My friends and I talked about this and we were not sure what it meant. Will 11X officers flying RPAs stop drawing "Flight Pay" and begin earning the new "RPA Incentive Pay?" Or maybe we are just reading this article wrong and the Incentive Pay is actually the exact same old Flight Pay.

Air Force officials approve incentive pay for officer, enlisted RPA aircrews

Posted 2/24/2010 Updated 2/24/2010

by Staff Sgt. J.G. Buzanowski

Secretary of the Air Force Public Affairs

2/24/2010 - WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- Air Force officials here have approved an incentive pay for officer and enlisted Airmen who commit themselves to flying or operating sensors on remotely piloted aircraft.

The incentive pay is equivalent to the current aviation incentive pay programs and is available to Airmen in the officer 18X RPA pilot or the new enlisted 1UOX1 RPA sensor operator career fields.

The incentives scale with an Airman's time within the career fields.

"Air Force leaders want the RPA career fields to operate the way other aviation career fields do," said Lt. Col. David DuHadway, the rated force policy chief at the Pentagon. "As a service, we recognize the need for people with these skill sets, and this represents a significant step forward in building a career field of RPA professionals."

There are slightly more than 400 Airmen currently in the RPA career fields. Air Force leaders expect that number to rise to more than 1,000 as the need for more combat air patrols increases in the U.S. Air Forces Central area of responsibility over the next few years.

"The pay is an incentive to attract and retain Airmen who dedicate themselves to operating RPAs," Colonel DuHadway said.

Until recently, RPAs were the only airframes where an enlisted member of the crew wasn't receiving an incentive pay specifically paid for their aviation duties. Although the pilots receive specialized flight training, the sensor operators perform duties similar to those of other career enlisted aviators.

"We're paying them for their expertise," explained Chief Master Sgt. Victor Allen, the career field manager for all career enlisted aviators. "The sensor operator position was often an additional duty for imagery analysis Airmen. But commanders want people who are devoted to staying in the career field.

"Offering the incentive pay will help us build the force we need to meet the demands of the mission," Chief Allen added.

For more information about joining the RPA career fields, contact CEA.Recruiting@Pentagon.af.mil.

[Guest Okawner]

it's an incentive pay to do a dangerous or otherwise undesirable job.

In that case the dude who pumps out my shitter after every flight should get some serious incentive pay. Talk about a recruiting and retention nightmare! Let's give him some wings while we're at it.

[pawnman]

Fair Enough.

Maybe I'll just STFU and color. I was all for the non-rated UAV drivers getting their own wings, etc, etc. because they were filling up a slot not many people wanted on the rated side, and it is a good thing to motivate them to volunteer. It just chafed me, as I always thought of the FLY PAY (As seen on the LES) as my little extra kick for doing a fairly dangerous job. I guess not.

That would be hazardous duty pay. Not Aviation Career Incentive Pay.

[Vice]

In that case the dude who pumps out my shitter after every flight should get some serious incentive pay. Talk about a recruiting and retention nightmare! Let's give him some wings while we're at it.

His incentive is the great pay he'll get in the civilian world for the same job...

[Guest]

"Oh My God I Just Shit My Drawers Because I Thought I Saw A SAM" pay.

Awesome. You forgot to tack "so now I'm going to file 69 SAFIRE reports and put myself in for a medal" on the end of that one.

It just chafed me, as I always thought of the FLY PAY (As seen on the LES) as my little extra kick for doing a fairly dangerous job. I guess not.

Is the job really that dangerous? Isn't it all perspective? you don't think it's really that dangerous or you wouldn't do it. Other people think it's dangerous and that's what gets you beers/laid/respect at your HS reunion.

For me, its not about the money or the bling, its about flying....in the air. If some dudes want to volunteer for this job because of the incentive bonus, awesome, more power to them. This at least gives the dudes who care about aviation a couple more decades before we are all ground-bound.

Shack.

So if these Pred operators are rated...do they have to go to SERE? Cause that chance of getting captured in Las Vegas is huge.

You haven't spent enough time in Vegas if you don't know the answer to that one.

It amazes me how some people care so much about someone else's good deal.

Ever hear the phrase "fly your own airplane"? It applies to everyday life, too.

Amen. 'Nuff said.

[OverTQ]

When I did my last deployment with the Army, it was taken as gospel that the AF gave AF dudes deployed with the Army "Substandard Quarters Allowance". The ALO and I got this from just about every Army guy we worked with. When we said it didn't exist, they just told us we were missing out on big bucks.

Warrants are taught bitching at WOCS I have come to believe. I am not saying that officers don't bitch either. But with warrants, it is an art form.

[Chutdoggin]

So if these Pred operators are rated...do they have to go to SERE? Cause that chance of getting captured in Las Vegas is huge.

You know the no-shit rated guys out of UPT don't have to go to sere right? Personally I think it blows because when they get their follow-ons guess who gets to play class leader?

Is the job really that dangerous? Isn't it all perspective? you don't think it's really that dangerous or you wouldn't do it. Other people think it's dangerous and that's what gets you beers/laid/respect at your HS reunion.

You really don't think your job is dangerous? I scare the shit out of myself at least once a week... thats what makes it fun! And I thought I got laid at my HS reunion because I was just so dang good looking.