Runaway Toyotas

[skinny]

EL CAJON, California -- A California highway police officer helped slow a runaway Toyota Prius from 94 mph to a safe stop on Monday after the car's accelerator became stuck on a freeway near San Diego, authorities said.

Prius driver James Sikes said that the incident Monday occurred just two weeks after he had taken the vehicle in to an El Cajon dealership for repairs after receiving a recall notice, but he was turned away.

"I gave them my recall notice and they handed it back and said I'm not on the recall list," Sikes said.

Sikes’ 2008 Prius was not covered by the accelerator recall – only the floor mat recall, ABC News reported. His Prius model allegedly has a different accelerator than the ones with “sticky” pedals. Sikes said there didn’t appear to be anything wrong with his floor mat, ABC reported.

In a statement, Toyota said it has dispatched a field technical specialist to San Diego to investigate the incident.

Toyota has recalled some 8.5 million vehicles worldwide -- more than 6 million in the United States -- since last fall because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius.

On Monday, Sikes called 911 about 1:30 p.m. after accelerating to pass another vehicle on Interstate 8 near La Posta and finding that he could not control his car, the California Highway Patrol said.

"I pushed the gas pedal to pass a car and it did something kind of funny ... it jumped and it just stuck there," the 61-year-old driver said at a news conference.

"As it was going, I was trying the brakes ... it wasn't stopping, it wasn't doing anything and it just kept speeding up," Sikes said, adding he could smell the brakes burning he was pressing the pedal so hard.

A patrol car pulled alongside the Prius and officers told Sikes over a loudspeaker to push the brake pedal to the floor and apply the emergency brake.

"They also got it going on a steep upgrade," said Officer Jesse Udovich. "Between those three things, they got it to slow down."

After the car decelerated to about 50 mph, Sikes turned off the engine and coasted to a halt.

The officer then maneuvered his car in front of the Prius as a precautionary block, Udovich said.

Toyota owners have complained of their vehicles speeding out of control despite efforts to slow down, sometimes resulting in deadly crashes. The government has received complaints of 34 deaths linked to sudden acceleration of Toyota vehicles since 2000.

One of the crashes claimed the life of a CHP officer in August.

Off-duty CHP Officer Mark Saylor was killed along with his wife, her brother and the couple's daughter after their Lexus' accelerator got stuck in La Mesa.

The Toyota-manufactured loaner vehicle slammed into a sport utility vehicle at about 100 mph, careened off the freeway, hit an embankment, overturned and burst into flames.

A few things come to mind here:

1 - Why did he wait until he slowed down to 50mph before he decided it might be a good idea to turn the vehicle off? Is there not a neutral on hybrids?

2 - HOLY SHIT! This guy got a damn PRIUS to go 94 mph! Kudos for the top speed attempt, but you still drive a Prius. I award you no points.

[M2]

I have a Toyota with an auto (not a Prius! ), and it is easy EP to shove the transmission into neutral if such an emergency should arise. There is also this thing called the emergency brake that will slow the car down if the brake system fails for any reason.

All of this reminds me of the Audi problems of the late 70s/early 80s; but I am also very suspicious of the government witch hunt against Toyota considering that the company is the number one competitor of the US auto industry which the government just spent $24.9 billion to bail out ($17.4 billion for General Motors and Chrysler, $6 billion for GMAC, and $1.5 billion for Chrysler Financial (source). Toyota also refuses to unionize in the US. Those two factors make the intensity of the government and media very suspect.

The biggest rub is that there was nowhere near as much coverage in 2008 when Ford had to recall 12 million vehicles due to a cruise-control switch catching fire. As a matter of fact, the top six recalls of all time were American-built cars. The 2.3 million cars affected by the Toyota recall doesn't even make the top ten list of recalls! #10 is the 1987 Ford recall of 3.6 million vehicles, which affected 1.3 million more vehicles than the Toyota recall!

Plus, despite a torrent of high-profile recalls that have tarnished Toyota's once stellar reputation, a study published a few weeks back revealed that Toyota still actually gets fewer customer complaints per car than the majority of its competitors (source).

I normally shun conspiracy theories, but in the case I will make an exception. Everything I have seen indicates this is a deliberate effort by the US government to eliminate Chrysler and GM’s competition!

Cheers! M2

[Goblin]

Are you suggesting that if one of the (once)Big-Three had stuck accelerators and runaway cars that the media wouldn't be covering it near as much? There is a huge difference between a fire on a switch(which is still serious, but you can stop/egress), and a car that won't stop.

[M2]

Are you suggesting that if one of the (once)Big-Three had stuck accelerators and runaway cars that the media wouldn't be covering it near as much? There is a huge difference between a fire on a switch(which is still serious, but you can stop/egress), and a car that won't stop.

I am saying it is more hype than reality. There are simple procedures to stop a "runaway car," it is just the vast majority of Americans either don't know how to drive, or don't bother. They are far too busy texting or putting on make-up.

And if you've ever been in a car fire (I have, albeit a minor one), you will realize it is far more serious than a stuck accelerator. Mine was an electrical fire that quickly filled the vehicle up with smoke, and opening the window to get rid of it only fueled the fire.

But my point is if you do your research you will find that the "Big-3" have had far more safety recalls than Toyota, but I don't recall ever seeing the executives at Ford being grilled by Congress about it...

[Vice]

2 - HOLY SHIT! This guy got a damn PRIUS to go 94 mph! Kudos for the top speed attempt, but you still drive a Prius. I award you no points.

[Vertigo]

I have a Toyota with an auto (not a Prius! ), and it is easy EP to shove the transmission into neutral if such an emergency should arise. There is also this thing called the emergency brake that will slow the car down if the brake system fails for any reason.

All of this reminds me of the Audi problems of the late 70s/early 80s; but I am also very suspicious of the government witch hunt against Toyota considering that the company is the number one competitor of the US auto industry which the government just spent $24.9 billion to bail out ($17.4 billion for General Motors and Chrysler, $6 billion for GMAC, and $1.5 billion for Chrysler Financial (source). Toyota also refuses to unionize in the US. Those two factors make the intensity of the government and media very suspect.

The biggest rub is that there was nowhere near as much coverage in 2008 when Ford had to recall 12 million vehicles due to a cruise-control switch catching fire. As a matter of fact, the top six recalls of all time were American-built cars. The 2.3 million cars affected by the Toyota recall doesn't even make the top ten list of recalls! #10 is the 1987 Ford recall of 3.6 million vehicles, which affected 1.3 million more vehicles than the Toyota recall!

Plus, despite a torrent of high-profile recalls that have tarnished Toyota's once stellar reputation, a study published a few weeks back revealed that Toyota still actually gets fewer customer complaints per car than the majority of its competitors (source).

I normally shun conspiracy theories, but in the case I will make an exception. Everything I have seen indicates this is a deliberate effort by the US government to eliminate Chrysler and GM’s competition!

Cheers! M2

2

I own a Toyota as well, and when I look at getting my next vehicle I will first look at Toyota. This recall hasn't changed my perceptions of the company and their vehicles at all. If anything the bad press they've received will surely encourage them to correct whatever engineering/manufacturing mistakes that led to these problems in the first place. In the 13 years I've owned my Toyota I have spent under $500 in maintenance on it (not counting oil changes). I've only had to replace brake pads and a starter on it. Coming up on 200K miles. Most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.

I had a Ford Explorer that the gas pedal would stick down on occasionally. After the first .69 seconds of "oh shit what do I do?" a smart person realizes that if you disengage the transmission you will stop accelerating.

[HerkDerka]

James Sikes needs to pay that cop a pension for the rest of his life. He saved him from being know as "The guy who died trying to go fast in a Prius".

[ExBoneOSO]

He probably had the speedometer set on kilometers/hr instead of mph..that would explain the "94"..!

[slacker]

My first thought is Sikes is lying. He was either mad because Toyota told him his Prius was fine or he planned it all along. It's just a little over the top that Ponch for CHiPs would have to help bring his car to a stop. Not buying it.

2 to everything M2 said earlier.

edit to add- Yes, I know Ponch was a Motorcycle cop. But I didn't think anyone would get the reference if I said "Officer Bonnie Clark."

Edited March 9, 2010 by slacker

[skinny]

My first thought is Sikes is lying. He was either mad because Toyota told him his Prius was fine or he planned it all along. It's just a little over the top that Ponch for CHiPs would have to help bring his car to a stop. Not buying it.

2

I was kind of thinking the same thing. The odds of having both the brakes AND gas pedal fail at the same time have got to be pretty slim. I think the Prius was only recalled for the brakes and not the gas pedal. Probably just looking for some cash or an easy way out of making such a bad decision by buying a Prius.

[M2]

Not surprisingly, very shortly after Toyota announced the recall for the gas pedals; four San Antonians from the south side of town were injured when the Camry they were in sped off and hit a utility pole! Of course, they are planning to sue the manufacturer!

Now, anyone know has spent any time in this town would naturally think: 1) that the car was stolen, 2) the driver was drunk, 3) this was a “planned accident” for the insurance/lawsuit money (time to call the “Texas Hammer!”), or 4) all of the above. My money’s on #4…

Cheers! M²

[Steve Davies]

I'm of the opinion that all these "stuck pedal" and "uncontrolled acceleration" incidents are caused by a panicking driver doing a 400 pound leg press on what in their mind is the brake but is actually the accelerator.

[Guest TheBull]

Not to mention that every hybrid with regenerative braking must also have standard hydraulic disk/drum brakes on the half shafts with the intent that even if your electric brake failed your conventional brakes still can to stop a runaway car.

49 CFR has stringent requirements for conventional brake-by-wire systems to prevent brake signal override. In the system's architecture the entire brake controller, with one for each wheel, is independent - the brake system may not take commands from anything other than the pedal input, but reads data from the ECU such as wheel velocity, throttle, etc.

[afnav]

Agreed on Toyota reliability. I have two, and when I need to replace them, Toyota will be my first choice.

While it's easy for us to automatically execute EPs when your car is freaking out, you need to remember that most people out there are not drilled on reacting to bad stuff quickly in an aircrew-like manner. It really pisses me off when people tell me that I can't drive and talk on a cell phone (hands-free) at the same time when I could program 12 JDAM, talk to a JFAC, talk on the interphone, and monitor aircraft position all at once. All instincts for survival given us by our ancestors which we have retained will weed them out sooner or later.

Yes, I do remember Officer Bonnie Clark, and she was very hot...even when I was 8.

[Gas Man]

My wife has been driving my beloved Tundra every once in a while while I am over here in the Stan. A few weeks ago she backed my truck into her Honda. The first thing I said was "Don't even try to use that recall BS on me". I love my truck. She knows that and she felt pretty bad. She is still getting a beating when I get home, but my comment at least made her laugh.

[gmwalk]

I just don't understand why people driving these cars don't understand simple emergency procedures. When the car accelerates uncontrollably apply the brake and put the car in neutral. The car will stop. The engine will be revving like hell, but who cares? Once it's stopped you can turn it off.

In every one of these runaways I have read about the driver is trying to stop the car by using the brakes against a full throttle engine. Doing this will only overheat the brakes and not stop the car.

Edited March 10, 2010 by gmwalk

[killacam]

The biggest rub is that there was nowhere near as much coverage in 2008 when Ford had to recall 12 million vehicles due to a cruise-control switch catching fire. As a matter of fact, the top six recalls of all time were American-built cars. The 2.3 million cars affected by the Toyota recall doesn't even make the top ten list of recalls! #10 is the 1987 Ford recall of 3.6 million vehicles, which affected 1.3 million more vehicles than the Toyota recall!

I agree with you to an extent but I'm seeing very different estimates of exactly how many cars have been recalled. The OP's news story claims 8.5 million worldwide recalls with over 6 million in the US. If that's true, it would at least be in the top 4 of the top 10 list you posted. Where'd you get your number of 2.3 million cars number M2? Just wondering.

On a related note, my pops is in the market for a replacement to his '01 Camry and is debating whether to pay a lil extra for the peace of mind and roll over to Honda for the new Accord or pick up the 2010 Camry. Opinions?

I also called the insurance company to check the rates on the new Camrys and they haven't changed any of their charges since the Toyota recalls went public.

Edited March 10, 2010 by killacam

[Wolf424]

The 2.3 million cars affected by the Toyota recall doesn't even make the top ten list of recalls! #10 is the 1987 Ford recall of 3.6 million vehicles, which affected 1.3 million more vehicles than the Toyota recall!

Sounds like they may need to recall more than just 2.3 mil. Just saying, 2.3 million may not be the final tally...

[M2]

killacam

It was an early estimate, I am not sure if that number has increased.

But I would still buy another Toyota without hesitation, and now may be a great time to negotiate a deal on one. There is a lot of bullshit behind these reports, and I challenge anyone to find a manufacturer that hasn't had its share of recalls (I know all of my Hondas did!). Toyotas are great cars and I would take one even with the risk of a sticking gas pedal over some of the pieces of shit being sold in this country these days!

By the way, my 2005 Jeep Wrangler has a known tendency to "surge" at low speeds. Speculation that it is an anti-stall code in the ECU, but it's happen to me a few times. Doesn't mean it still isn't a great vehicle, you just have to watch out for it.

Cheers! M2

p.s. I just noticed the original article talks about all Toyota recalls over the past six months or so, the site I posted lists recalls of one specific issue...

[Guest TheBull]

I just don't understand why people driving these cars don't understand simple emergency procedures. When the car accelerates uncontrollably apply the brake and put the car in neutral. The car will stop. The engine will be revving like hell, but who cares? Once it's stopped you can turn it off.

The one I saw today - the 911 operator was telling the guy going 94 mph to shift into neutral - and he refused to because he was scared it would flip over on the highway

...and it turns out that he turned in his car for mx, and the dealership told him his model wasn't one of the recalled ones... smells like some bullshit to me.

[Vandal]

In regards to the Prius incident today, they have an electronically controlled shifter. This means that you can try to put the car in neutral, but that sum bitch will stay in drive until it comes to a stop then allows you to put the car in neutral.

[Wang Wei]

I agree with you to an extent but I'm seeing very different estimates of exactly how many cars have been recalled. The OP's news story claims 8.5 million worldwide recalls with over 6 million in the US. If that's true, it would at least be in the top 4 of the top 10 list you posted. Where'd you get your number of 2.3 million cars number M2? Just wondering.

On a related note, my pops is in the market for a replacement to his '01 Camry and is debating whether to pay a lil extra for the peace of mind and roll over to Honda for the new Accord or pick up the 2010 Camry. Opinions?

I also called the insurance company to check the rates on the new Camrys and they haven't changed any of their charges since the Toyota recalls went public.

I have heard that the newer 4 cyl's are not as reliable as the older models. I'm not too sure about the V6's. I would have no reservations buying a new Camry safety wise, but I feel that the fit and finish of the Accord is better then the Camry at this point (especially the interior).

I have a '98 Camrey with a V-6 that will probably outlive me.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

The one I saw today - the 911 operator was telling the guy going 94 mph to shift into neutral - and he refused to because he was scared it would flip over on the highway

...and it turns out that he turned in his car for mx, and the dealership told him his model wasn't one of the recalled ones... smells like some bullshit to me.

Most people don't realize you don't even need to depress the shift button to push an auto transmission from "Drive" to "Neutral"...it should slide into neutral with only a slight detent. Cars are designed that way for the very reason of "runaway" components.

Speaking of accelerators, I owned a 1987 Ford Tempo coupe back in the day, and that thing used to just floor itself and accelerate uncontrolled. I had the ECU-like system that controls fuel input replaced three times (at my own cost), and there was a recall for that model for that very problem but for some reason my VIN wasn't in the "affected" category. Luckily I had a manual so all I would do was put it in neutral, pull over to the shoulder, turn the car off and restart. 75% of the time it would reset the electrons and it would run fine until the next incident. The other 25% of the time, I'd restart and it would idle at 4,000 RPM...not normal. I would just keep restarting the engine until it behaved in those cases. Gradually each electronic unit would go bad and the incidents would happen with increasing frequency, and that's when I'd shell out $300 for a new component.

In any case, that recall (and those incidents that affected those cars, mine included) were never even mentioned to the public outside of the normal recall process.

[brabus]

I just don't understand why people driving these cars don't understand simple emergency procedures. When the car accelerates uncontrollably apply the brake and put the car in neutral. The car will stop. The engine will be revving like hell, but who cares? Once it's stopped you can turn it off.

In every one of these runaways I have read about the driver is trying to stop the car by using the brakes against a full throttle engine. Doing this will only overheat the brakes and not stop the car.

No shit, why are people such morons? I understand the normal person isn't trained in quick reactions to bad situations like aircrew, but it's common sense to either put the transmission in neutral or turn the ignition off. Either one will stop your car from accelerating and will start the slow down process. I just can't believe so many people are so fucking retarded they can't think of that.

[slacker]

I owned a 1987 Ford Tempo coupe

That's a real gem. Think what that thing would be worth today.

To stop a runaway Prius- choke the hamster.