USAF C-130J Harvest Hawk

[ClearedHot]

That's still not TF

Whatever Cliff Clavin.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

I could really care less what you buy... I never said gunships flew TF...I said you don't need a radar to fly TF.

[arg]

Right. That's still not TF, but just so we are 100% clear, you are stating that gunships at some point in their past flew contour, "terrain following" profiles, below MSA, without visual cues (ie at night with no illum, or in IMC, or both), with only DTED/TERPROM data? Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Even current DTED data does not allow this yet, and past data from the timeframe that 'dhtut' is referring (early 1980's) absolutely does not support this, not to mention that even a basic EGPWS system relies on precise GPS information that was not available until the 1990's.

Call it semantics if you want, but defining TF as everyone else on the entire planet does, gunships do not and did not fly TF.

Ask an FE to show you the definition of TERRAIN FOLLOWING (TF) in his 101. That what we were doing in the 80s. It was logged on the 151 as TF.

Look at the definition of CONTOUR FLYING(CF). Not what we were doing.

Next, look at the definition of modified contours, oh wait, there's not one. Some MAC puke coined that catch phrase in the 80s and it got into the books.

BTW, those definitions have not changed in 30+ years (LJ, I think that older than your airplane). MACregs and AFIs have.

Not pointing at anybody in particular but its funny how some people think they're "old heads" and know how it’s “always been done”.

[LJ Driver]

Ask an FE to show you the definition of TERRAIN FOLLOWING (TF) in his 101. That what we were doing in the 80s. It was logged on the 151 as TF.

Look at the definition of CONTOUR FLYING(CF). Not what we were doing.

Next, look at the definition of modified contours, oh wait, there's not one. Some MAC puke coined that catch phrase in the 80s and it got into the books.

BTW, those definitions have not changed in 30+ years (LJ, I think that older than your airplane). MACregs and AFIs have.

Not pointing at anybody in particular but its funny how some people think they're "old heads" and know how it’s “always been done”.

Again, how did you do this without a radar, and what is your definition of TF? I've asked this quite a few times now, and you still have not answered the question. Regardless of what CH states, I maintain you need a radar to do it as defined by its generally accepted means.

Not sure who you're referring to as an old head wannabe, but it sure as hell isn't me. I do feel comfortable knowing that I have a solid understanding of what TF is however and how to employ it.

Frankly I couldn't care less what an FE in 1980 logged. That is an absurd argument and makes zero sense. 30 years ago when someone asked what your airplane was capable of doing, did you say "well our FE logs this thing we do as TF, so I guess we can TF..." I hope not.

[Guest]

LJ,never surrender.

NEVER!

[B*D*A]

Whatever Cliff Clavin.

No dog in this fight, but that is FUNNY!

Edited September 23, 2010 by M2
Embedded the lawyer for ya!

[Guest ski&fly fast]

Hey does anyone have any info on the C-130J models going to Cannon?

[backseatdriver]

Hey does anyone have any info on the C-130J models going to Cannon?

Could you be a little more vague?

[Texaco]

Hey does anyone have any info on the C-130J models going to Cannon?

Cannon should get a couple MC-130J in FY11 for the initial cadre and Kirtland should get one to get ready for the schoolhouse. Some Shadow pilots get J-qual'd at The Rock then continue to fly the MC-130P. Shadow Pilots and CSOs then keep current in the 193 SOW "slick" EC-130J and Marine KC-130J sim which both have a CSO station. After the schoolhouse is set up at Kirtland and the first ops squadron at Cannon, Eglin will follow, then Mildenhall, and lastly Kadena. Most of the MC-J guys will come from the Shadow community with slick-J crews filling in the rest. Still not sure how much of a "dragon spear" or "harvest hawk" mission they will adopt in the new platform, but it should be interesting.

[Skyclops]

I think what ski&fly fast is referring to is the upcoming drop for 10-14, where it has C-130J to Cannon AFB as an option. We were trying to figure this out last night. Its either a typo or what Cucci is referring to... no slick Js at Cannon.

[Guest ski&fly fast]

I think what ski&fly fast is referring to is the upcoming drop for 10-14, where it has C-130J to Cannon AFB as an option. We were trying to figure this out last night. Its either a typo or what Cucci is referring to... no slick Js at Cannon.

yea our cc found out they are going to be slicks as far as we know-- doesn't make sense but who knows!

[MCO]

yea our cc found out they are going to be slicks as far as we know-- doesn't make sense but who knows!

Cannon is an AFSOC base. They arn't getting any slick J's. They are getting MC-J's soon. Corpus does this fairly regularly where they have the wrong plane on the sheet to the wrong base, and it has bit people who didn't know before hand going into the drop. All of a sudden your base/aircraft is not what you picked 2 or 3 days after the drop and they usually won't/can't do anything to fix the situation. Have that in mind when you are looking at the assignment list.

[M2]

Adding Dragon Spears to the Gunship Quiver: The Air Force has awarded L-3 Communications a $61 million contract to add a weapons package to eight MC-130W Combat Spear special-mission aircraft to give them a gunship-like attack capability. Under the terms of the deal, L-3 will provide the weapons kits, which are called "precision strike packages," for installation on the aircraft at Warner Robins Air Logistics Center in Georgia. MC-130Ws fitted with the weapons will be known as Dragon Spears. Air Force Special Operations Command is arming these aircraft to relieve the relentless operational demands on its regular AC-130 gunships until new AC-130Js enter the fleet.

Enter the Dragon Spear: Air Force Special Operations Command is currently fielding four MC-130W Combat Spear special-mission aircraft that are modified with a precision strike package (PSP) that gives them a gunship-like attack capability, Adm. Eric Olson, head of US Special Operations Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee Tuesday. Converting these aircraft, which are henceforth dubbed Dragon Spears, is one means of quickly bolstering AFSOC's aging gunship fleet that is continually in high demand in Southwest Asia. Olson said ongoing improvements for these modified MC-130Ws include sensor upgrades, the integration of a standoff precision-guided munitions system and supporting 30 mm gun, a new sensor operator console as well as new communication equipment and flight deck hardware. The PSP is modular and scalable so it could be integrated on to other airframes, he noted. (Olson's prepared remarks)

The first article was in today's AFA Highlights, the second is from 17 March 2010.

Cheers! M2