AF Huey question

[Eeyore]

The folks at AFSPC HQ are attempting to get the Hueys armed for convoy and secuity sweeps. Currently, the aircrew is armed with sidearms and if a SF (Security Forces) are available they might be onboard. You must understand the helo folks are aggressively pursueing crewserved weapons. You wonder why arming Huey now and not in the past? Well the non operating folks ie (Conheads) figure since noone group or anybody tried to steal a nuke, why arm the helo!! This attitude is slowly changing after the events of 9/11. This is why the aircraft are having FLIr installed and hopefully armed. The mindset of AFSPC is and this is my Quote" The T-handle is illuminated and what should we do?? Oh, first lets schedule a meeting to discuss whether we approach the O-6 secretary to schedule a meeting to discuss the T handle illumination and proper course of action". In the mean time the other engine has caught fire and what do you do with consecutive engine fires!! Autorotate of course. Rotorhead, chime in if I missed anything.

[Wing Sweep]

Sounds like Big Blue at its fullest! Gotta love it.

[Guest croftfam]

Originally posted by Eeyore:

The folks at AFSPC HQ are attempting to get the Hueys armed for convoy and secuity sweeps. Currently, the aircrew is armed with sidearms and if a SF (Security Forces) are available they might be onboard. You must understand the helo folks are aggressively pursueing crewserved weapons. You wonder why arming Huey now and not in the past? Well the non operating folks ie (Conheads) figure since noone group or anybody tried to steal a nuke, why arm the helo!! This attitude is slowly changing after the events of 9/11. This is why the aircraft are having FLIr installed and hopefully armed. The mindset of AFSPC is and this is my Quote" The T-handle is illuminated and what should we do?? Oh, first lets schedule a meeting to discuss whether we approach the O-6 secretary to schedule a meeting to discuss the T handle illumination and proper course of action". In the mean time the other engine has caught fire and what do you do with consecutive engine fires!! Autorotate of course. Rotorhead, chime in if I missed anything.

I could be wrong, but I'm almost positive that the reason the AF helo's aren't armed with forward facing weapons is because of the deal they made with the Army. Maybe they're changing it, but I doubt it. Currenty they already have or are in the process of changing the mounts on the 60's so that you can lock them forward and the pilots can fire. Not like we'd really hit anything though.

[Opie]

How often does the UH-1 actually participate in SAR, humanitarian relief, and other civil missions? Is it a rare occurance that af.mil just throws in there or is it a legitimate business for them?

Thanks for the info!

[Guest rotorhead]

Since ICBMs have been around, we've used helos (for about 35 years, Hueys) for various ICBM security issues/responses. Sometimes flying relief coneheads to MAFs when blizzards closed roads...sometimes flying missile maintenance, sometimes flying comm guys to inspect the zillion miles of buried cables connecting the MAFs and LFs, sometimes carrying cops, sometimes carrying parts, sometimes carrying codes, sometimes rescuing an injured guy from the missile field. I once even rescued a cook that discovered touching both poles of a 230 volt stove will send your heart some bad jolts. When they move warheads, they have a package of a couple dozen ground vehicles, and a helo. The helo carrys an initial response cop force. If there is an incident, AFSPC has decided that if they can get x cops on scene within y minutes, they can secure things. After initial response, a few other helos immediately bring in z more cops. There was never any idea for cops to shoot from the flying helo in years past, but that mindset is changing. In addition to the bread and butter job of missile support, those flingwingers also provide civil rescue. The amount depends on the location, and if the unit is tasked with MAST. I've done a helluva lot of things in a Pave Hawk that you can't do in a Huey, but I've also done some things in a Huey that I have not done in a Pave Hawk, like land on a highrise hospital roof, pull scores of folks from a downtown parking lot as raging flooding ravages the city, and hauled a 600 lb woman in a hospital bed. Other Huey types transport premature babies, and do bucket drops on brush fires. It is not like you do these things every day. They are rare but rewarding. Remember, there are rules regs and laws that keep USAF flingwingers from doing certain law enforcement (posse comatatis) and we can't prevent a civil helo outfit from making their money on a rescue/transport.

[Eeyore]

Heloguy, I know that the AF has had forward firing weapons capability on All of it's helo's while I've been on active duty. The issue you might be thinking of is in the 80's the army wanted to take all rotorwing assests from AF. This was Initiative 17. The Amry's thoguht process was since the AF would not give up A-10's for CAS therefore since the Army would take over all rotarywing from AF. The Army lost. Now at one point the AFSOC MH-60's (Late 80's) had the capability with ETS/ESSS to carry rockets/20mm gunpod. When SOCOM and TF160th (oldname) heard of this and that MH-60's could carry more and escort the Paves they would not allow AF to usurp Little Birds role. So yes, to a on SOF helos no forward firing weapons. Having flown both Huey gunships and help test some of the gun system on MH-60. Enjoy the chance to fire fixed forward.

[Wing Sweep]

Okay, so what does the gunner do when they put the minis to forward fire on 60s? Do they just sit along for the ride? Do they not fly on these missions? Are you speaking of AF or Army 60s? I'm a little confused.

[Eeyore]

gabe2surf, You can fix the guns forward and have the FE/MG fire the weapon the pilots can not on AF HH-60. When AFSOC had first had H-60s they were list as MH-60G's. When Air Rescue was stood up within ACC they were redesignated HH-60G and has remained as such when AFSOC took back Air Rescue role. The Army (SOAR) has MH-60,MH-47 and MH-6. Rotorhead or heloguy chime in if I'm incorrect.

[Wing Sweep]

Originally posted by heloguy:

The above was what my question referred to. Heloguy says pilots can fire if they're facing forward, but I'm hearing differently from Eeyore. Can someone please help? I'm confused. Maybe I'm reading into this too much?

[Opie]

Thanks a lot for the info rotorhead. I had another question for you guys if you don't mind. With the HH-60 being a HD/LD aircraft, how does that work with your deployments. Do you have similar rotations as the AEF assets or are your days deployed much higher and more unpredictable? How does that work?

Thanks again for all the good info.

[Guest croftfam]

Originally posted by Eeyore:

Heloguy, I know that the AF has had forward firing weapons capability on All of it's helo's while I've been on active duty. The issue you might be thinking of is in the 80's the army wanted to take all rotorwing assests from AF. This was Initiative 17. The Amry's thoguht process was since the AF would not give up A-10's for CAS therefore since the Army would take over all rotarywing from AF. The Army lost. Now at one point the AFSOC MH-60's (Late 80's) had the capability with ETS/ESSS to carry rockets/20mm gunpod. When SOCOM and TF160th (oldname) heard of this and that MH-60's could carry more and escort the Paves they would not allow AF to usurp Little Birds role. So yes, to a on SOF helos no forward firing weapons. Having flown both Huey gunships and help test some of the gun system on MH-60. Enjoy the chance to fire fixed forward.

Cool, I knew there was more to it, just too lazy to do more of the research into it. Gracias.

[Guest croftfam]

Originally posted by gabe2surf:

I have not had the opportunity to do anything like this, and not sure that I ever will. You can bet that if an opportunity presents itself I will push for it, even if it's just at the range. FE's and Gunners are very protective of their jobs!

Opie - I don't know what regular 60 life is like, as Kadena doesn't really live a regular 60 life. Rotorhead is the authority on this website. The 33rd at Kadena is part of PACAF, we do permanent rotations in Korea, a lot of shipboard ops, and support for the SOAR. I say we, but I have yet to actually show up :D Again, I refer you to Rotorhead for any serious questions. I don't want him to know who I am still. I've gone this far through training without him knowing who I am, and I don't want him knowing at least until I'm gone or on the way out. ;)

[Guest Jollygreen]

Originally posted by Eeyore:

Heloguy, I know that the AF has had forward firing weapons capability on All of it's helo's while I've been on active duty. The issue you might be thinking of is in the 80's the army wanted to take all rotorwing assests from AF. This was Initiative 17. The Amry's thoguht process was since the AF would not give up A-10's for CAS therefore since the Army would take over all rotarywing from AF. The Army lost. Now at one point the AFSOC MH-60's (Late 80's) had the capability with ETS/ESSS to carry rockets/20mm gunpod. When SOCOM and TF160th (oldname) heard of this and that MH-60's could carry more and escort the Paves they would not allow AF to usurp Little Birds role. So yes, to a on SOF helos no forward firing weapons. Having flown both Huey gunships and help test some of the gun system on MH-60. Enjoy the chance to fire fixed forward.

Currently...no USAF helo has fixed forward (pilot controlled) weapons and I know of no plans to change that.

[craino21]

I'm still at Rucker, and have never flown on a -60 so take this at face value... On our cross country to Moody last week the -60 pilot who gave us a quick walk around said that they could fix their guns forward and fire them from the cockpit with their new mounts. Again, I know I'm telling 60 pilots about their aircraft, just what I was told by another -60 pilot, and maybe it differs from base to base.