Do you wish you went Guard/Res?

[Guest Sandlapper]

I'm not arguing that point. $4M in today's dollars in 2060 gets you as much as $1.4 in today's dollars gets you today (according to the calculator's assumptions.)

OK - great. I understand what inflation means, so does everyone reading this. The horse is dead!

[Hacker]

No, no regrets about being active and staying AD.

There is a lot of grass-is-greener syndrome with people who make such statements -- I was certainly one of 'em. For a time about 6-9 years ago, I was hellbent on leaving AD and going to the ANG for all the same reasons that most people state; stable job and location, less deployments, less BS and politics, less queep, less cutthroat from people trying to make rank, etc.

Unfortunately, these reasons come from an era that has passed. Today's ANG/Reserve units are in the deployment rotation just as much as anyone. The last two BRACs have changed MANY of those units' missions (if I'd gone to three of the four ANG fighter units I was hoping to go to, I'd no longer be flying a fighter), and some of those units have even gone to RPAs. With respect to the queep and admin, there is just as much of it there, too, it's just of a different flavor. True, it's a flavor that some people find easier to stomach, but it is there nonetheless.

I second the idea of reading this thread over at APC, which has a lot of guys talking about their experiences leaving AD for the ANG/reserves (or retirement) and their reasons for wanting to get back on Active Duty. I have several peers who left active duty for greener pastures in the 2006-2007 timeframe and their experiences seem to mirror many of the thoughts in that thread (all of them except one have either gotten AGR jobs or back on AD).

Certainly there is nothing *wrong* with the ANG and Reserves -- it's a great way to serve in and of itself. It's not, however, the Panacea that a lot of people on AD seem to think it is.

[Chapter29]

I flew active for 10 years and loved every minute.

I just clipped 10 years in the ARC and have loved every minute as well--both as a bum and full timer.

Both have advantages/disadvantages over the other.

In the end, I still drive to work every morning thinking 'I cant believe they pay me to to do this shit.' For that, I am very lucky.

[PasserOGas]

I don't know about the other airframes but in the tanker world it is night and day. The missions that the guard/reseve guys get to do are amazing, while ours... see the thread about leadership at the deid. I too know lots of people who got out back in 06, and while a few are furlowed I don't know one that wants back in. True you don't get the same retirement, but you do get to enjoy your life.

[Karl Hungus]

Today's ANG/Reserve units are in the deployment rotation just as much as anyone.

Tell that to the KC-10 reserve community. 30-45 day deployments, if any. Up to you based on if you want to go or not. Some actually do volunteer... most tell the AD side to shove it. Can't say I blame them at all... pick and choose the trips the KC-10 was designed for while the AD folks slave away in the desert? Have a steady revenue stream coming in from the TTF? Deploy a few people here and there, just enough to keep from getting activated? I'd do the same exact thing.

From my friends in -135 guard units, it's pretty similar. Have fun at the Deid, we've off to Curacao! If you can't beat em, join em.

Edit: Disclaimer- I like to comment on these guard/ reserve vs. AD topics because the topic interests me. I don't want to come off as completely bitter and negative- I actually love my job. I'm just realistic enough to know when there's something better out there.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Karl Hungus

[scoobs]

[quote name='C130GuardBum' date='18 April 2010 - 03:49 AM' timestamp='12715

\58944' post='244444']

Guard baby for 20 years and have been bumming for 17 of those. Wouldn't have it any other way. It has been feast or famine some times but since 2003 it has been getting easier and easier.jdf

Edited April 19, 2010 by scoobs

[C130GuardBum]

Wow 17 yrs of bumming? Is that a record? The thing that scares me about the reserves is finding a side job where your not waiting tables or a bellman. What if you don't want to fly for the airlines., then what?

I met a guy who had been bumming for 20-25 years and still going. I hope to bum for around another nine years and get my full retirement then look for something else to do, maybe flying maybe not. If you live modestly within your means you dont have to worry about waiting tables or anything else.

[HuggyU2]

Tell that to the KC-10 reserve community... Up to you based on if you want to go or not. ... most tell the AD side to shove it... pick and choose the trips the KC-10 was designed for while the AD folks slave away in the desert? Have a steady revenue stream coming in from the TTF? Deploy a few people here and there, just enough to keep from getting activated?

Reason #48 why the system is broke.

[Scooter14]

From my friends in -135 guard units, it's pretty similar. Have fun at the Deid, we've off to Curacao! If you can't beat em, join em.

I hear this argument all of the time.

We tried for about 2 years to come to your Active Duty pity party in the desert back in 2007. We volunteered. They said "Thanks. Minimum of 30 days aircrew, 60 days MX, 120 days leadership"

We said "Well, we can't really do that, since we have people with jobs and there are 4 units in our 4 month AEF bucket. Can we do 15 day rotations with leadership/staff swapping every 30? Most of our guys have been there before and we can have those guys spin up our crews at home station at drill. You can get all that stuff off of the SIPR you know..."

Big Blue "No"

Us - "Okay, then will you mobilize us?"

Big Blue - "No"

ANG - "Well, I guess you don't need us that bad then. Mobilize us and we'll be happy to help. We're right here, all you gotta do is call..."

Two years later, they finally let us play. First, they did the old location "bait and switch" on us (hey you're going to Manas! Oh, did we say Manas...what we really meant was...).

The DRMD dropped, then it changed and changed and changed 69 times. Finally it ended up that we had to leave a lot of our ground staff/leadership at home (negative requirement) since the AD wanted to keep those slots. We ended up jerking a lot of folks around (you're going..no you're not...well, maybe...OK, maybe not)

Next time we go, they only want crews, no staff at all. I understand "continuity" and all, but come on.

So, it may seem from a crewdogs perspective that the ANG gets all the good deals. Most of that is undoubtedly true. However, you have to remember that we have a lot of citizen airmen that fill our ranks. Some have very liberal airline schedules. Some do not...especially our enlisted aircrew and MX. That's why we get some of these shorter trips.

On the big deployment side of the house...AMC has to fill X number of deployment requirements with tankers. The ANG/AFRC makes up a percentage of that. AMC tells us (NGB/AFRC) which requirements it wants filled when it's our turn in the bucket. Sometimes we go East, sometimes we go West, sometimes we go South.

Finally, I did two individual deployments to the Died so some Active Duty guy didn't have to. Once by myself, once with a whole crew from my unit. The second time I went, there was only one Active Duty pilot and no Active Duty booms on the whole airplane. 3 Reserve crews and 1 2/3 Guard crews.

I know each unit's philosophy varies, but I would like to go to CENTCOM more often, but each time they make it more painful with pre-deployment requirements, time you have to spend there and then the whole Died ass pain thing (see the Leadership in the Died thread) makes it difficult.

[JarheadBoom]

We volunteered. They said "Thanks. Minimum of 30 days aircrew, 60 days MX, 120 days leadership"

We said "Well, we can't really do that, since we have people with jobs and there are 4 units in our 4 month AEF bucket. Can we do 15 day rotations with leadership/staff swapping every 30? Most of our guys have been there before and we can have those guys spin up our crews at home station at drill. You can get all that stuff off of the SIPR you know..."

Big Blue "No"

Us - "Okay, then will you mobilize us?"

Big Blue - "No"

ANG - "Well, I guess you don't need us that bad then. Mobilize us and we'll be happy to help. We're right here, all you gotta do is call..."

Yes. This.

Scooter, you said it far better than what I was able to come up with...

[PasserOGas]

I hear this argument all of the time.

We tried for about 2 years to come to your Active Duty pity party in the desert back in 2007. We volunteered. They said "Thanks. Minimum of 30 days aircrew, 60 days MX, 120 days leadership"

We said "Well, we can't really do that, since we have people with jobs and there are 4 units in our 4 month AEF bucket. Can we do 15 day rotations with leadership/staff swapping every 30? Most of our guys have been there before and we can have those guys spin up our crews at home station at drill. You can get all that stuff off of the SIPR you know..."

Big Blue "No"

Us - "Okay, then will you mobilize us?"

Big Blue - "No"

ANG - "Well, I guess you don't need us that bad then. Mobilize us and we'll be happy to help. We're right here, all you gotta do is call..."

Two years later, they finally let us play. First, they did the old location "bait and switch" on us (hey you're going to Manas! Oh, did we say Manas...what we really meant was...).

The DRMD dropped, then it changed and changed and changed 69 times. Finally it ended up that we had to leave a lot of our ground staff/leadership at home (negative requirement) since the AD wanted to keep those slots. We ended up jerking a lot of folks around (you're going..no you're not...well, maybe...OK, maybe not)

Next time we go, they only want crews, no staff at all. I understand "continuity" and all, but come on.

So, it may seem from a crewdogs perspective that the ANG gets all the good deals. Most of that is undoubtedly true. However, you have to remember that we have a lot of citizen airmen that fill our ranks. Some have very liberal airline schedules. Some do not...especially our enlisted aircrew and MX. That's why we get some of these shorter trips.

On the big deployment side of the house...AMC has to fill X number of deployment requirements with tankers. The ANG/AFRC makes up a percentage of that. AMC tells us (NGB/AFRC) which requirements it wants filled when it's our turn in the bucket. Sometimes we go East, sometimes we go West, sometimes we go South.

Finally, I did two individual deployments to the Died so some Active Duty guy didn't have to. Once by myself, once with a whole crew from my unit. The second time I went, there was only one Active Duty pilot and no Active Duty booms on the whole airplane. 3 Reserve crews and 1 2/3 Guard crews.

I know each unit's philosophy varies, but I would like to go to CENTCOM more often, but each time they make it more painful with pre-deployment requirements, time you have to spend there and then the whole Died ass pain thing (see the Leadership in the Died thread) makes it difficult.

Hey, no one is blaming you guys. This griping is aimed squarely at AD leadership, or lack thereof. AMC gets to task you once every two years, and while they could use every opportunity like that to help us out, they send you guys to Guam, Turkey or the Caribbean. I know you guys come to the Deid, (on the 31st only ;-p ) I tell people how some bases work with the guard/reserve on shorter tours while ours doesn't and they don't even know its our OWN WING knifing us in the back.

I hate you, but I don't HATE you. Simple jealousy. You see the difference? I just want my leadership to talk about the people/mission debate again, and to even bring it up gets you laughed at now.

[Bergman]

While I have a lot to add on the 'guard participation' aspect of this thread (esp since I just returned from my second voluntary OEF rotation with a full guard crew...in the past 4 months)...I will keep the thread on track:

I would have never left active duty if they had given me the goddamned 5 year commissioned service waiver for UPT. Ended up getting it via a guard unit, and the ANG has been good for the past 7 years. Having said that, return to AD is still an option I consider frequently. Once I'm not within 2 years of a promotion (i.e. the board results are released) it will be nice to have my options back. The grass is definitely not as green as it may seem. Your results may vary.

[Karl Hungus]

Like Huggy said, the system is broke. Like I said, I don't blame people for taking advantage. The powers that be certainly don't make it easy. It's pure jealousy when I bitch about the reserves not contributing. Who'd want to when you just get hassled about what color socks you have on and how you didn't immediately shave after a 12 hour flight. The complete lack of focus on shit that actually matters never ceases to amaze me.

[slacker]

We all make our career choices.

[scoobs]

I met a guy who had been bumming for 20-25 years and still going. I hope to bum for around another nine years and get my full retirement then look for something else to do, maybe flying maybe not. If you live modestly within your means you dont have to worry about waiting tables or anything else.

How do you deal with insurance issues? Or does your wife provide it for the whole family? I asked if someone could do that and they thought I was crazy.

[PasserOGas]

We all make our career choices.

True, I just wish I'd known about the guard when I made mine. Counting down until my commitment is up and I can finally make another choice.

Back on topic, to say I wish I had gone guard would be an understatement. (In case you couldn't tell.)

Edited April 21, 2010 by PasserOGas

[FlyingBull]

I'm just a butter bar that went active in January so my experience on this is *extremely* limited. With that said I know plenty of fellow recent college grads struggling to find work. Some have even moved back in with their parents. I'm not complaining about having a secure income.

Also I'm at IFS at the moment and multiple Active Duty staff members here are former Guard/Reserve that have come back onto active duty due to shitty job oppurtunities in the airlines right now.

So as of now, no I have no regrets about choosing active duty. But like I said I'm at the very begining of my career so I have no idea how I'll feel in a few years.

Edited April 22, 2010 by FlyingBull

[C130GuardBum]

How do you deal with insurance issues? Or does your wife provide it for the whole family? I asked if someone could do that and they thought I was crazy.

Now I use TRS (Tricare Reserve Select) but before that I had a catastrophic policy with a 10K deductable. Always figured I could recover from 10K and the policy was only $15 a month. I just paid for any medical care I needed out of pocket. You offer to pay cash then and there and the prices drop at the Doc's office. Plus there is ALWAYS active duty available for something and if on orders for more than 30 days there is regular Tricare. With TRS insurance isnt even a factor anymore. I know some guys who got rid of their reg job insurance to go with the TRS.

[Guest]

Tell that to the KC-10 reserve community. 30-45 day deployments, if any. Up to you based on if you want to go or not. Some actually do volunteer... most tell the AD side to shove it. Can't say I blame them at all... pick and choose the trips the KC-10 was designed for while the AD folks slave away in the desert? Have a steady revenue stream coming in from the TTF? Deploy a few people here and there, just enough to keep from getting activated? I'd do the same exact thing.

And that, my friends, is the attitude that provides support to the argument that we should yank the iron away from the ARC.

[slacker]

And that, my friends, is the attitude that provides support to the argument that we should yank the iron away from the ARC.

It will probably happen. I guess there's no more need for a strategic reserve.

[Guest]

It will probably happen. I guess there's no more need for a strategic reserve.

I disagree with both points, especially the latter.

We absolutely need a strategic reserve of trained and equipped forces to support the active duty in a time of war.

Up to you based on if you want to go or not...most tell the AD side to shove it. Can't say I blame them at all... pick and choose the trips the KC-10 was designed for while the AD folks slave away in the desert? Have a steady revenue stream coming in from the TTF? Deploy a few people here and there, just enough to keep from getting activated? I'd do the same exact thing.

Hmmm...

[slacker]

I disagree with both points, especially the latter.

We absolutely need a strategic reserve of trained and equipped forces to support the active duty in a time of war.

I too, disagree with the latter point, it was meant as sarcasm. [humor]Only a douchebag could have missed it.

[/humor]

However, I do believe active duty is coming for ARC iron, I see the push every day. The “operational reserves” is the new norm, and it comes at the expense of the strategic reserve. TFI units are the future and the ARC assets will be used up at an active duty pace. The Air Force needs new toys, and the ARC has them.

I hope we can recap the active force without destroying our strategic reserve.

[brabus]

I'm definitely glad I went AD. I don't have the money, job (i.e. having to find/keep a civ job also...obviously is N/A for some, but still stands for many), insurance, etc. things to worry about. AD also offers things you either won't or have a very small chance of experiencing if you start out in the Guard. I have one job (well, one paycheck anyways) and don't have to worry about being able to support my family on that one pay check if needed. My friends in the guard can't say the same...self-admitted. However, I sure as hell won't scoff the guard as it offers it's own unique experiences and a way of doing things. I've talked with countless dudes who started out AD, went guard at some point in their career and have enjoyed every minute of each. I think the "grass is greener" syndrome applies 100% of the time to the AD/Guard discussion.

[Duck]

Slight topic shift. How are the AD guys doing who got sent to Guard Units a year or so ago?

[Karl Hungus]

Hmmm...

What are you hmmm...-ing? The fact that KC-10 reservists don't deploy much or the fact that I'd do the same thing if I were them? Also, the ARC doesn't own any KC-10s by themselves... all are active-associates so I guess you could consider them co-owned. There's no iron to take away from them.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Karl Hungus