Cannon AFB

[KB03]

My last year here I plan on living in my truck in the squadron parking lot.

Please expand on this.

[MC5Wes]

Squadron parking lot?

Is the on base Fam Camp / RV park full?

[Mark1]

1. Properties are not overpriced. They are priced according to the market. That's why they sell.

2. Rentals are priced much higher than the cost of buying because good ones are so scarce. You can actually make real money in Clovis as a slum lord.

3. Don't base major financial decisions on the advice of an uninformed friends.

4. Consider all options and think outside of the box. There are probably things you haven't even considered yet.

I agree that housing is currently priced where the market will bear. AnimalMother is also correct that the market is sustained artifically high. No problem if you buy when the market is in that state, and sell again in the same state. The problem with buying a house in Clovis is that it is a huge gamble. There is absolutely no upside in buying a house in Clovis as far as housing appreciation goes (demand will never be higher), but there is a catastrophic downside if the status quo isn't maintained (I know the base isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but the Clovis market depends nearly solely on manning levels there, which are subject to change). That status quo is about to be upset by the fact that they are working to rebuild/renovate the portion of Chavez West base housing that was previously condemned. I've been removed from the situation for a while, so there may be more up-to-date gouge, but depending on how they roll out the new units there could be a massive shift in the market.

There's enough buying in the market to keep prices strong at the moment. That's largely fueled by the fact that REASONABLE rentals are non-existant. You can either live in a dump on your BAH, or if you require a higher standard of living for your family, rent a single-family home for significantly more than a mortgage would run you. This leads a large portion of incoming families to buy against their will because they can't afford, or aren't willing to pay, extortionate rent prices. Give those families the option to move into NEW base housing units at the cost of BAH, and all of a sudden the buyers drop out of the market. My recollection is that its north of 600 units that will eventually be dumped on the market. 600 homes in a Clovis sized market is going to mean large losses for anybody who tries to sell while the market is correcting.

And yes, homes do sell for the exorbitant prices that the market currently bears, but I can tell you that of all the families that I personally know who bought homes when they arrived in Clovis circa 2009, none of them has had an easy time selling at a breakeven level. Some are still holding their properties (going on 1yr) because they can't get an offer worth accepting.

As far as watering holes go....there aren't any. The few places selling liquor are either not worth your time, or worth actively avoiding. More power to anybody who wants to open a decent bar, it's desperately needed, but I can say that you'd be among hundreds that arrived in Clovis with the same grand plans. Nothing has materialized, and there's a reason for it.

[Boxhead]

I lucked out, got there in 2008 and left in 2011 and made a whopping $8000 when I sold my house. (well, that's was on paper, pretty sure I spent that at Lowe's over the time I lived there!)

x2 on buying a liquor license there. We simply went to the VFW on the corner of Mitchell and Grand, cheap drinks, good food, good crowd. By good, I mean that as opposed to the other bars in town, no one is trying to stab you. You can get a fillet, and drink top shelf booze all night and spend less than $40-50 bucks.

[KB03]

Look forward to it.

[Splash95]

What are the local watering holes (bars) there?

The is one actual bar in Clovis, it's called Kelly's and I've found it unremarkable at best. There used to be a couple of others, but I heard the owners retired and sold their liquor licenses to Allsup's gas stations (or maybe to one of the churches which reportedly hoard them). The "nearby" college town of Portales has at least 2 or 3, the most popular of which is the Dawg House. I've never been there but have heard very mixed reviews, for instance that the owner hates military guys. If you're much like me, your social life will revolve around getting out of Clovis. I've spent weekends (or longer) in Lubbock, Amarillo, Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Taos, Tulsa, C-Springs, Denver, Dallas, Houston, Tucson, Phoenix, Santa Monica, Atlanta and Destin in the year and a couple of months since I PCSed. However, work commitments and exhausted leave days (I have about 5 at present) will probably curtail my travel in the near future.

As for housing, I bought a house since, like others, I found little appeal in the rental market. I'm not too concerned about taking a loss when I sell the place as long as it's not the kind of catastrophic loss that would be brought about if the base closed. I should add that I'm renting out half my house (3 br/2 ba, 2000 sq ft, in one of the actual good neighborhoods) for $500/mo plus half the utilities. There probably aren't many similar deals around, but if your first stop at CVS is the 551st (which I assume it will be), ask around a bit and check the bulletin boards--you may find something better than what's publicly advertised.

Anyway, welcome to Cannondahar! (the most recent I've heard, to add on to Clovass, Blovis, Clovistan, Afcannonstan and FOB Cannon)

[Whitman]

Anyway, welcome to Cannondahar! (the most recent I've heard, to add on to Clovass, Blovis, Clovistan, Afcannonstan and FOB Cannon)

Clovadishu!

[OregonHerc]

The "nearby" college town of Portales has at least 2 or 3, the most popular of which is the Dawg House.

There's a new "brew pub" in Portales which isn't all that bad, either...if you can deal with an hour plus wait.

[KB03]

Cannondahar, Clovistan! sounds great! Due to no funds available it looks like my PCS is delayed indefinitely. insert smiley face

[nsplayr]

Due to no funds available it looks like my PCS is delayed indefinitely.

Any back story to this?

[KB03]

possibility of freezing of PCSs due to sequestration, according to my sq/cc

Edited February 9, 2013 by KB03

[Skitzo]

I heard a similar rumor as well.

[Fozzy Bear]

I'm not that lucky. Please holler if this is actually confirmed, though.

[Guest CannonCrashPad]

If dudes are looking for a rental close to base, hit me up. If you can get past the homo music and the fact it's a mobile home, it's a great living situation.

[hindsight2020]

15 and counting U-28 guys in the past few weeks, over an assignment to Cannon.

I believe it. Bad enough when you're gone all year, but at least the wife (job/amenities) and kid (school) are provided for in desirable and populated Florida. But, gone all year AND the family has to do without happiness or prosperity in Clovis,NM? Fat chance, Bonus Bob. The AF really fucked AFSOC mission readiness with the Cannon quagmire...

[matmacwc]

You might actually point blame at the politicians at the Cannon and Holloman quagmire.

[AnimalMother]

You might actually point blame at the politicians at the Cannon and Holloman quagmire.

Let's not give a free pass here to the AFSOC leadership who set up the deal while buying up tons of cheap Clovis property via proxy before the news dropped. I think we all know who we're talking about.

As for the 15 U-28 folks dropping paper, yup.

[RTB]

Let's not give a free pass here to the AFSOC leadership who set up the deal while buying up tons of cheap Clovis property via proxy before the news dropped. I think we all know who we're talking about.

This really happened? Details?

[Vprdrvr69]

Were those the options you were hoping for? I didn't know all those were open to nav's.

Not so much for Navs, but quite a few front seaters tried and were swiftly denied. There is no way out, hence the reason folks jumped on anything they could to buy time and kill ADSC.

Staying in the same heavily deployed airframe for 8-9 years without any options isn't what I was looking for, and until we can get the 3rd unit stood up and we get "healthy" on manning, "You are 100% not releasable" to anything else. Straight from the CC.

And I don't blame him, it's true....Too bad...staying put or punching out are your only two options at this point.

Very few have escaped the black hole of AFSOC while staying on active duty and good on them, they deserve it. Even the dudes who stayed AFSOC but went Do-328s or MC-Js about a year ago and accepted Cannon as inevitable look like geniuses now.

My count's a little higher but yea, pretty rough so far.

Agreed...the house of cards is swaying in the breeze and because the move out West seems like it's too big to fail I'm not sure what the bailout plan is going to be...

//continue AFSOC derail//

100% spot on. Manning will never be right because the higher ups are too busy serving themselves and moving along. Manning has been a wreck since inception of the program. Out is your only option and most everyone there knows it; the good commanders will tell you so. It sucks. Dipshits like Gen Chang the Wang wonder why dudes are disenfranchised. Desk flying cocksuckers like him haven't had to deal with shit like this hence the reason he is so clueless. Of course he hasn't been busy actually fighting a war either (powerpoint doesn't count). I stopped feeding that troll.

The guys who seemed to fall on their swords (sts) and went to Clovistan are indeed doing well. Sadly, when those guys took the assignment it was only to get out of U-28s and pad the resumes or get -130 quals. Many of those guys have since picked up many more hours, type ratings, and ATP's amongst other sweet resume builders. Don't kid yourself, they will still add to the ridiculous tally of SO folks tossing in papers soon.

As for the count on U-28 guys opting out of a miserable assignment to U-28's at Cannon, I suspect it will be 99% of those eligible to drop papers. Eventually AFSOC will stop giving orders to those eligible and will feed on the younger guys (sts). This way everyone gets completely bitter. The final count will probably be closer to 30-40. Those that do have to take the orders will be done after that assignment anyhow. Excellent leadership Big Blue. If you were a company you would be so completely bankrupt. I do believe General Cockbag is a senior leader because the shoe fits and he would see the wisdom in sending everyone he can to Cannon. By sending guys out there, Blue didn't solve anything and this problem will continue to cause trouble a few more years down the road. Kick the can right Blue?

Will be more than 15 by the time all is said & done; it may actually affect the new SQs ability to be operational on time.

Far more. Folks in the know please do pass data points.

You might actually point blame at the politicians at the Cannon and Holloman quagmire.

Shack! Thank (former) Governor Bill Richardson to start with. The corruptness and fraud amongst the politicians is staggering. Unfortunately, the influence upon our higher seniors (right GC) is significant. Politicians and spineless leaders are the reason we have Cannon. The airspace sucks, the range sucks, the routes suck, the area is miserable, and manning is a complete debacle. GC, how is Cannon helping our readiness state in AFSOC? At least we got the west-coast SO base to be close to the users right? What a joke, all of it.

[Tumbleweed]

The airspace sucks, the range sucks, the routes suck, the area is miserable, and manning is a complete debacle. GC, how is Cannon helping our readiness state in AFSOC? At least we got the west-coast SO base to be close to the users right? What a joke, all of it.

What planet are you living on? Say what you want about manning and the way big blue is feeding Cannon, but the airspace, routes, and range are far better than anything else in AFSOC. Eglin range is just that "Eglin", AFSOC is far lower on the priority list. Are you really trying to tell me A-77, A-78, and B-7 are better than what they have built at Melrose? By the way, Melrose belongs to AFSOC and they set the priority. Hornet and Osprey are great routes with far more terrain than anything I've seen within 300 miles of Hurlburt. Two impact areas, tow dirt LZ's, LVA pads, and the terrain looks like where we fight. As for a west coast base, it was NOT to be closer to users, it was supposed to reduce deployment time to the Pacific. One of the great benefits of Melrose is you can bring the users to you, more head on pillow time while still getting high end training.

I wonder how many of the folks that 7 day opted out of Cannon have actually been to Cannon? I heard a few Einsteins who had more than two years of remaining ADSC (including once with 4 years), are in that group. Way to make a statement and burn your bridge, you are still going to Cannon.

If you been to Cannon and you hate it, so be it, but to burn a bridge on word of mouth is simply dumb. Believe it or not there are a lot of folks that actually like Cannon. Is it on the Emerald Coast, nope, but if you like camping, hunting, hiking, and an overseas unit feel then it is not a bad place to be for a few years. They just signed the privatized housing deal and 1,000 new homes are on the way over the next three years, that will make a huge difference.

I fully understand no one wants to stay at Cannon forever, (actually some do, a lot of folks move their against their will and have now retired there), I hope they find a way to rotate folks around, but to bitch about it or burn a career when you've never been there is just plain stupid.

[FlyinGrunt]

Tumbleweed, I agree with you that you shouldn't punch out without at least seeing it. That would be dumb. For the record, I have been there, a number of times. But to say that everyone that punches with more that 2 years on their commitment is an idiot is also missing some of the big picture. GC, Liquid, and countless other senior leaders have said it, and they have a point: you can't make force management decisions based on pure bitching and rumint alone . . . at some point, the bros have to put their money where their mouth is and drop papers. Until we start losing people in significant enough numbers, nothing will change.

And speaking from the gunship side, it has. I've been around just long enough to have been in the era where Us and Hs did not crossflow except by exception only, and witnessed the bloodbath thus far. And guess what? A ton of dudes did, and are, dropping papers, both when HRT dudes get the orders and when CVS dudes can punch. And though a lot is due to the ramp-up to the J, THINGS HAVE (sorta) IMPROVED. 16th dudes are coming en masse to the 4th, and the squadron leadership, at least, is losing sleep over ways to get dudes away from CVS and ease the pain.

Gunships, U-28s, MCs . . . someone has to fall on their sword and actually leave, or rather a lot of someones, but unless they actually commit, nothing gets better.

[Mark1]

What planet are you living on? Say what you want about manning and the way big blue is feeding Cannon, but the airspace, routes, and range are far better than anything else in AFSOC. Eglin range is just that "Eglin", AFSOC is far lower on the priority list. Are you really trying to tell me A-77, A-78, and B-7 are better than what they have built at Melrose? By the way, Melrose belongs to AFSOC and they set the priority. Hornet and Osprey are great routes with far more terrain than anything I've seen within 300 miles of Hurlburt. Two impact areas, tow dirt LZ's, LVA pads, and the terrain looks like where we fight. As for a west coast base, it was NOT to be closer to users, it was supposed to reduce deployment time to the Pacific. One of the great benefits of Melrose is you can bring the users to you, more head on pillow time while still getting high end training...

If you been to Cannon and you hate it, so be it, but to burn a bridge on word of mouth is simply dumb. Believe it or not there are a lot of folks that actually like Cannon. Is it on the Emerald Coast, nope, but if you like camping, hunting, hiking, and an overseas unit feel then it is not a bad place to be for a few years. They just signed the privatized housing deal and 1,000 new homes are on the way over the next three years, that will make a huge difference.

From the gunship side (and yeah, I get that they are only 1 piece) yes, Melrose is worse than the Eglin Range complex. The fancy new targets are nice, but provide nothing in increased training value. Only moving targets would do that, but AFSOC wouldn't spend the money. Otherwise it's just something shiny to look at while you squeeze off a round. The airspace is more restrictive than Eglin because of the impact areas' proximity to the eastern edge of the Restricted Area which makes manuevers while live firing or integration with fast movers difficult. For 90% of the time AFSOC has existed at Cannon, there has only been one impact area open and available for gunhsip use making live fire scheduling harder than anything I ever saw with Eglin. And, it's been rectified, but for a long time AFSOC did NOT own the range, and DID NOT set priority on Melrose range.

As far as the terrain being simliar to where we fight: put down the kool-ad. I think most would agree that OEF is one of the most straightforward battlefields we will ever see (and we've got 12yrs experience with it), we shouldn't be training to the lowest common denominator. We should be training towards the most difficult theater, and then when the Afghanistan's of the world come around, it'll be a cakewalk. Plow out a dirt LZ anywhere in the world to let the rotary wing guys deal with brownout landings, and call it good. I'll give you the low-level routes over Hurlburt, but just barely. And from the gunship side, simulating full mission profiles over Clovis/Portales day after day after day because we don't have the legs to make the next nearest civilization center has drained so much expertise from the community, it's sad.

Cannon meant to reduce deployment time to the Pacific? Joke. Hope you don't have to deploy a combat configured AC-130 in July without immediate tanker support, cause guess what...they'd have to depart EAST to Dyess in order to onload enough fuel to make the next available airfield to the West. A departure from HRT without tanker support would literally make better time. With tanker support? Do the work to make a comparison of the routes. The result will suprise you.

The users come to Cannon by force only. We used to have units show to HRT all the time, yes to get their yearly training in, but because their guys saw it as a desireable TDY location. Now they avoid it like the plague and only show when they have to.

Camping, hunting, hiking? Yes, a 3hr drive away. Name a location in the U.S. where that isn't available within a 3hr drive.

1000 homes coming on the market you say? Awesome, I'm sure the guys that bought houses at extortion prices, because rentals and base housing were absolutely non-existant, will enjoy having a small market like that flooded with new/free/high-quality homes. That'll do wonders for their property values.

And then compare snapshots of the units now vs. 6yrs ago. Sad.

AFSOC is at Cannon to stay. I get it, deal with it. But quit reading Gen Wooley's talking paper to justify the location. The only justification is that AFSOC wanted a bigger footprint, more command billets, and more money under their control. End of story. Oh, except for the chance to cash in on shady real estate deals. You can include that, too.

[LookieRookie]

Details on these real estate deals?

[Techsan]

I guess I better tell my folks to sell their home in Clovis real quick before the housing market floods.

[guineapigfury]

Details on these real estate deals?

If someone has info on this that's better than RUMINT, I hope they're passing it to the appropriate authorities. I think watching a few guys with chickens or stars on their shoulders PCS to Leavenworth while incurring a 20 year ADSC would set a useful example to their peers.