Current Ops Tempo Question

[Truman08]

I'm getting ready to fill out my dream sheet here in a few weeks for the T-1 drop in early July. I know it differs from base to base, but I was wondering if anybody knew a rough estimate of the current ops tempos on the heavy side. If you could throw in specific examples (ie specific base deployment rates) that would help out a bunch. Just want to make an informed decision of what jet I put down and I have a feeling that those out there actually doing the mission could give me more accurate info than the brief we're going to receive from those who have been around the training squadron for a while. Thanks.

[bucky60k]

If you want to fly a C-17, don't plan on being home for more than 96 hrs between missions, thats if they don't simultaneously waive your post and pre mission crew rest. As far as I know, this ops tempo is the new standard until the war ends if ever

[chim richalds]

If you want to fly a C-17, don't plan on being home for more than 96 hrs between missions, thats if they don't simultaneously waive your post and pre mission crew rest. As far as I know, this ops tempo is the new standard until the war ends if ever

Here's what i've observed after a few years in AMC

C-17: Gone alot, 10-15 days at a time, deploy for 4 months too

C-5: 10-15 days, no deploy

-135: 60 day deployments, 3ish times a year

-130: Gone alot, deployed the most

-10: Not sure, deploy though

Correct any of the above if yall know better

[contraildash]

C-21s: awesomeness.

[Guest Touch & Go Rentals]

My experience has been in C-130s and KC-135s. As a C-130 pilot, my deployment time was about 1:2, that is, for every 4 months deployed, I spent 8 months at home. Generally, that meant I was deploying at the same time of year. There were opportunities for people to volunteer more and take advantage of some interesting opportunities if they enjoyed the life on the road.

I found KC-135s to be more demanding. For many, it seemed to approach 1:1 or 1:1.5. Furthermore, the tempo deployed was much more demanding. In the C-130, we had much more rest in between missions than in the KC-135--the crew ratios are very different, and I found myself flying many days in a row in the KC-135 while I was deployed--that eventually takes its toll.

Also, I actually prefer 4 month deployments to 2 months. Especially if you're not going to be home much longer than you're on the road. A little more time at home in between deployments helped me feel like life was more stable. Those who deployed every few months in the KC-135 for two months only to repeat the cycle seemed to disconnect from their community and families. It's almost like "what's the point of getting involved in friendships, activities? You'll be preparing to depart again in just over a month."

[Karl Hungus]

KC-10: new copilots can expect three 75ish day deployments their first year. Doesn't really slow down after that. Doesn't matter which base you're at.

C-21 (to Ramstein) is by far the best assignment you can get out of T-1s, if you don't mind reality crashing down on you when you go to your MWS after living the life in Europe.

[ak47]

Dover C-5s are currently up and down - missions start at about 6 days but FRED is an angry beast and they can last more than 30 days for MX issues. Sometimes you'll be gone back to back to back like the C-17 guys are experiencing with being home only a few days between, and other times you'll be home for 2 months. Right now young folks are getting about 500-600 hours a year. If you come into the C-5 now, you'll be in on the beginnings of the C-5M, too, which is *supposed* to be a huge leap forward. You can also expect one deployment in your first assignment. Some folks are taking 120s to the CAOC and others 179 in the MC-12. It's not bad, but it's ridiculously unpredictable.

[FourFans]

Confirmed roughly 4 on 8 off in the herk world. Some more, some less. Great mission that keeps you engaged.

[Guest Crew Report]

-135: 60 day deployments, 3ish times a year

Depends on your base. Some do 77 days.

[Guest superD]

The -17 world sucks right now, especially @ TCM. Not only are we doing 15 days at a time, but we go and spend 4 or 5 of that rotting at the CHS stage. At first it wasn't too bad, but after awhile you get sick of the place and all the shenanigans they pull.

The jet is awesome, the mission is pretty cool at times, the money can be good too, but if you are married and value having a life I would put the C-21 up there along with the herk.

[PasserOGas]

PACAF and USAFE are supposedly pretty good deals as well, at least in the KC-135. Cool TDY's and no deployments unless you want to go. Both are mostly run by fighters, which for promotion at the top may be bad, but for the average tanker guy is good, as they have no idea how the tanker works. So, as long as you are there on time they don't generally care how you do got there which gives you more freedom. This is just what I've heard from friends. Anyone want to comment?

My advise? Stay as far away from AMC as humanly possible, unless you enjoy spending time in prison.

Edited June 11, 2010 by PasserOGas

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

E-8: expect 2-3 60 day deployments per year, with some TDYs, but not many. Local flights 3-4 times per month.

[contraildash]

C-21 (to Ramstein) is by far the best assignment you can get out of T-1s, if you don't mind reality crashing down on you when you go to your MWS after living the life in Europe.

Well, we do have to over-wing refuel our own jets...

[smalls0912]

The -17 world sucks right now, especially @ TCM. Not only are we doing 15 days at a time, but we go and spend 4 or 5 of that rotting at the CHS stage. At first it wasn't too bad, but after awhile you get sick of the place and all the shenanigans they pull.

2.

Just spent a week sitting there while mission after mission cancelled and the CHS guys took all the good lines....

[BQZip01]

Can I assume B-52s are an option? If so, our deployment rates are currently about 4-6 months every other year...to GUAM! Sure beats landing in the kitty litter. PM me if you want more details.

[Guest Crew Report]

PACAF and USAFE are supposedly pretty good deals as well, at least in the KC-135. Cool TDY's and no deployments unless you want to go. Both are mostly run by fighters, which for promotion at the top may be bad, but for the average tanker guy is good, as they have no idea how the tanker works. So, as long as you are there on time they don't generally care how you do got there which gives you more freedom. This is just what I've heard from friends. Anyone want to comment?

My advise? Stay as far away from AMC as humanly possible, unless you enjoy spending time in prison.

How is Mildenhall "mostly run by fighters" when the host wing is an Air Refueling Wing? Kadena I agree with. Plus 909th guys sit a lot of AE alert. Sure AMC has its downfalls, however if you'd like to upgrade sometimes this century then your first KC-135 tour better be with AMC.

[Guest Touch & Go Rentals]

How is Mildenhall "mostly run by fighters" when the host wing is an Air Refueling Wing? Kadena I agree with. Plus 909th guys sit a lot of AE alert. Sure AMC has its downfalls, however if you'd like to upgrade sometimes this century then your first KC-135 tour better be with AMC.

The post said USAFE is mostly run by fighters. Mildenhall AB is home to 100th ARW, but within the command, fighters seem to reign the day. For the first couple of years, that may be transparent to a new copilot, but eventually, opportunities to compete at the MAJCOM will open up--I've been told, but can't confirm, MAF guys have a harder time competing in that arena.

I agree with the upgrade statement--get in AMC, volunteer for deployments early--especially if you don't have a family. You gain a good reputation, and you have a chance to build up a lot of hours. Also, I'd avoid association units. C-130s to Peterson may be really cool for location, but I haven't heard great things about copilots getting flights in some of these associations.

I mentioned C-130s above. Another thing I found is it was pretty rare for a no-notice deployment to pop-up. If it did, it usually was because the person primarily scheduled was injured or failed a checkride and couldn't go. I'm not sure why there seemed to be more stability, except with longer deployments, and less turnover, leadership may have been able to plan better than in an aircraft with more frequent deployments.

[JeepGuyC17]

AMC '17s are hella busy right now, but the mission is great and you make a shit ton of money. I haven't owed taxes since 2007. My advice, OPS tempo changes all the time and could be totally different by the time you finish UPT and FTU, so take that for what it's worth when you make your choice. When we filled out our dream sheets, the word on the street from the C-17 world was still "you can fly as much or as little as you want to, copilots sometimes have to fight to get on trips". We all know how that's been working out lately, not that I would have chosen differently.

Edited June 12, 2010 by JeepGuyC17

[BigFreddie]

Dover C-5s are currently up and down - missions start at about 6 days but FRED is an angry beast and they can last more than 30 days for MX issues. Sometimes you'll be gone back to back to back like the C-17 guys are experiencing with being home only a few days between, and other times you'll be home for 2 months. Right now young folks are getting about 500-600 hours a year. If you come into the C-5 now, you'll be in on the beginnings of the C-5M, too, which is *supposed* to be a huge leap forward. You can also expect one deployment in your first assignment. Some folks are taking 120s to the CAOC and others 179 in the MC-12. It's not bad, but it's ridiculously unpredictable.

This is a pretty good picture of FRED life style. You don't deploy like other airframes but when you do it is non-flying and likely to the Deid which plain sucks (see 100+ page thread on that). Flying has slowed down since the days when I was a CP there and the M transition will likely be a slow and painful process and less hours flown.

I've talked to E-3 guys lately and they seem to have a pretty good life... Between 4 dudes they averaged about 40 days gone in the last YEAR!

BF

[Shut up 'n color]

Just like it was stated above....C17s are going nuts and the rumor is that it's going to last until August. But everyone knows it's going to be much longer than that. Personally, I think its going to last until the economy picks up and there are jobs for people to get out and go to. Until then, they are going to squeeze us dry because they know there is no where to go. As far as deployments, our schedule isn't too bad, 4 months every 15 months or so. But you'd never know it b/c when you are "home" you go on 15 day trips. For a new guy it's pretty good for a little while, you get a chance to have repetition and learn alot very quickly. However, no matter how busy you are, they will still push for you to get your SOS done as a LT and complete you masters degree the day you step foot on station. Bottom line, if you are interested in the mission and traveling the world, try it out. If you hated it, it's only 3-4 years then PCS to something different.

[osulax05]

Anybody have insight on what B-1's are like these days? I know a few years ago they were overmanned on CO's is that still the case?

[daynightindicator]

Man, this is a tough question to answer. Only a few short years ago we were shipping off our co-pilots as fast as we legally could to TAMI-21 and alfa tour assignments. Of course, in the omnipotent wisdom of Big Blue, by doing that we ended up being short on young A/Cs, IP/WIC candidates, etc.

Ops tempo remains high with a 2:1 dwell, 6-on, 1-year off deployments to everyone's favorite desert summer camp. Of course, during your year at home, you can expect Red and Green Flag and probably a few other TDYs for upgrades/schools/airshows/etc, so you end up with ~9 months actually home. MX rates are low, especially if you're not in deployment spin-up, so sorties are routinely delayed and duty days extended just to meet RAP and training requirements. To be honest, the last year in between my deployments (I'm currently down-range) was pretty demanding as far as hours put in at work, and it often felt futile with the amount of sorties we canx'd. That being said, there are some benefits as well.

Pros:

Young guys get combat experience quickly - obviously this is dependent on involvement in OEF, but since '06 Bones have provided 365 coverage in the AOR. As a Capt, I will leave this deployment with over 100 combat sorties (high # for us considering we only fly a couple lines a day out here) and over 1200 combat hours, which was unheard of a few years ago. I don't want to get into the "bomber-CAS" argument, but the bottom line is we employ ordinance often in theater in a CAS role and I've had some experiences out here that have completely validated my career - hearing a panicked 20 year old tell you on the radio that your bombs just saved his life and the lives of his buddies is something you'll never forget. If my career ends tomorrow, that alone made it worthwhile.

Some cool upgrades are coming down the line that will make the B-1 much easier to integrate into traditional strike packages. People are usually amazed (in a bad way) when they see our cockpit/avionics set-up and the vintage 80s technology we're working with, augmented by jury-rigged laptops, etc. The Sniper pod was a huge upgrade for us and gives us some awesome capes that we use everyday in theater. Glass cockpit and data-link upgrades are right around the corner and will make us more lethal. If you're worried about whether the B-1 will get to play if any other conflicts kick off around the world, don't. We will have an active role.

Squadron life is pretty good - it seems to be a good mix between the super alpha-male world of fighters and the more laid-back world of most crew aircraft/heavies/etc, while still retaining a definite combat mentality. The crew aspect fosters good relationships between pilots and WSOs and bar traditions are alive and well.

Personally I consider the no-nuke-mission as a definite pro. I really want no part of PRP or anything that involves, and it lets us concentrate wholly on conventional employment.

Cons:

Ops tempo - constant deployments are wearing on both people and jets. MX personnel are tough to retain because they're either working 12s in a 130 degree desert or working 12s at home in -30 degree snowstorms to prep for OREs/ORIs.

Basing options - this could be seen as a pro or a con depending on your likes and dislikes. Personally, I'm not a fan of TX but I don't mind Rapid City. There's tons of stuff to do outdoors and the city is very supportive. The winters suck, though, not gonna lie about that. Bottom line about duty stations is some guys love them both, some hate them both. That's a personal preference.

Unpredictability of career track - like I alluded to earlier, every year the pendulum seems to swing on the assignment thing. I really can't give much advice to a new arrival beyond "work hard, make your preferences known, and fill out your ADP honestly and realistically." I would say *most* guys are getting what they want right now, whether it's stay in the community, go ALO, etc. White jets are few and far between, but they're possible.

Hope this helps.

[OL Patch]

hearing a panicked 20 year old tell you on the radio that your bombs just saved his life and the lives of his buddies is something you'll never forget. If my career ends tomorrow, that alone made it worthwhile.

Don't post alot, but your statement above tells me you get it! I spent 20yrs preparing for a time to be useful (light grey guy)--happy I did, loved the majority of it, and it was worthwhile also--but never had the opportunity you describe. Always remember, its about the guys on the ground.

Well Done--Bravo Zulu--and good on ya.

Retguy

[StoleIt]

Just a heads up, T-1 guys can NOT track B-52s or B-1s. Those are T-38 studs only.

[scoobs]

Are Bone copilots flying more now?