Air Force to Army transfer (Blue to Green)

[Guest Flight]

I can tell you that the Army will question you if your only getting a 84 on the Air Force PFT. If thats the case, you are not physically ready for what the Army does.

[Guest ShortThrow]

Originally posted by Flight:

I can tell you that the Army will question you if your only getting a 84 on the Air Force PFT. If thats the case, you are not physically ready for what the Army does.

Well according to apft scores charts and a few of my friends already in arotc, my scores translated into probable scores would most likely put me in the 'acceptable' range. I still have plenty of time to improve. Lets just say I didn't have a good semester last spring; but I don't want to make an excuse.

[ 08. September 2006, 18:12: Message edited by: Tertle ]

[jazzdude]

Id suggest doing your best at FT this summer, and it sounds like you've got a plan for PFT and GPA, and not worry about this until after pilot selections happen. Eyes on the prize...

Originally posted by Tertle:

Does anyone know if there are any possibilities on going blue to green in the last year of rotc? I know this sounds bad, but if I don't get a pilot slot I think I want to be a ground pounder.

If by ground pounder you mean infantry i bet there's little to no chance at that unless there's significant improvement in your PT scores. From what I understand talking with my arotc buds, its really competitive (kinda like pilot slots...)

As far as getting in to arotc, if you have a pulse, you're probably good to go if you can get out of your AF commitment. One thing to note is that army cadets go to camp after their junior year, so that may or may not affect timing. From what I've seen in ROTC, there are very different philosophies/mindsets between the two (duh), which might be something else to consider (read: get to know some folks in arotc before considering the switch)

On a side note, the army gives their cadets some interesting choices on their service commitments. They can lengthen their ADSC in return for their choice of branch (if qualified, and there is still a bit of rack and stack involved) or first duty station.

[Guest ShortThrow]

Originally posted by jazzdude:

Id suggest doing your best at FT this summer, and it sounds like you've got a plan for PFT and GPA, and not worry about this until after pilot selections happen. Eyes on the prize...

If by ground pounder you mean infantry i bet there's little to no chance at that unless there's significant improvement in your PT scores. From what I understand talking with my arotc buds, its really competitive (kinda like pilot slots...)

As far as getting in to arotc, if you have a pulse, you're probably good to go if you can get out of your AF commitment. One thing to note is that army cadets go to camp after their junior year, so that may or may not affect timing. From what I've seen in ROTC, there are very different philosophies/mindsets between the two (duh), which might be something else to consider (read: get to know some folks in arotc before considering the switch)

On a side note, the army gives their cadets some interesting choices on their service commitments. They can lengthen their ADSC in return for their choice of branch (if qualified, and there is still a bit of rack and stack involved) or first duty station.

[Guest wilco]

A little more info on the whole WO vs. RLO, this time from guard. My father was in the guard 42 years and eventually made 0-6 in aviation. He wasn't ready to retire and got screwed out of a waiver from the TAG.

He reverted to CW2 and loved it. He never liked having to sleep in the tent and do stupid duties, but he flew tons and was very lucky to be there when he had to medically retire.

After 30 years of commissioned service, he said he wish he was a WO from the beginning.

I also took his advice and joined the Air Guard. I obviously have a lot of sympathy for Army Aviation w/ the ops tempo currently. Stay safe.

[Guest Gator-boy]

You go through ROTC to become an officer in the greatest air force in the world. If you don't get a pilot slot, it isn't the end of the world. There are so many options in the air force, it is crazy. Try your best, but I guarantee that you will be happier in the air force than the army.

[Guest Robes]

What people are talking about is a cross commission... It was a long time ago, in a far away land, but I knew a guy who went directly from USAFA to the USN and is/was a SEAL commander...

Robes

[FalconXtreme]

well im bringing this thread back from the dead. does anyone know of an air force to marine program? basically i'm a sr. afrotc didnt get a pilot slot, not sure if i'm going to get the comm assignment i want... i know that i can apply to the AD board. but the garaunteed marine pilot plan is O' so tempting to me. anybody know of an AD transfer program for it? i know i'd still have to go marine ocs but that doesnt bother me. i'm just considering all options right now.

[magnetfreezer]

well im bringing this thread back from the dead. does anyone know of an air force to marine program? basically i'm a sr. afrotc didnt get a pilot slot, not sure if i'm going to get the comm assignment i want... i know that i can apply to the AD board. but the garaunteed marine pilot plan is O' so tempting to me. anybody know of an AD transfer program for it? i know i'd still have to go marine ocs but that doesnt bother me. i'm just considering all options right now.

A few Marines that have gone through Pcola transferred in on AD (mostly Navy though). From what I hear, it is extremely rare, but you would only go to TBS if you are already a commissioned officer. You could try to get released from AFROTC to go to OCS depending on your scholarship status, etc. For specific info on transfer, you'd have to talk to an OSO (Marine officer recruiter).

[Guest CAVEMAN]

A few Marines that have gone through Pcola transferred in on AD (mostly Navy though). From what I hear, it is extremely rare, but you would only go to TBS if you are already a commissioned officer. You could try to get released from AFROTC to go to OCS depending on your scholarship status, etc. For specific info on transfer, you'd have to talk to an OSO (Marine officer recruiter).

IST into the Marines is a difficult process. I have heard of an Airforce guy that was selected and made to go through TBS. It is easier for the Navy guys because he/she is already a Naval Aviator. But this is for already rated guys. I know one guy who came from the Airforce and he was made to go through TBS. According to him, the process was long and frustrating as no one really knew how to put the package together.(Hint: it is rarely done). I might also add that he was once a Marine that jumped ship to the AF and decided to return.

You can always tough it out at OCS and the spot will be yours.

Edited September 17, 2008 by CAVEMAN

[Guest toll]

Revival

I can't believe I am about to post this, but I don't know where else to start...and you guys rock!

On the same sort of topic, I’m thinking about going Blue to Marine (Red, I guess, but that sounds bad) in Aviation. I am awaiting pilot training right now and have about 8 months until my start date. Five years ago I was set on the Air Force because it seemed like the perfect thing to do; now I am not so sure. I have talked to a few rated guys (both young and seasoned) and some of them have told me to look into transferring to the Marines to try and fly. I figured it would be a little easier because I already have a pilot slot and I am commissioned. So would it be better to wait until I finish UPT and look at transferring or try like hell now and see if it happens?

So where do I start and who do I talk to? Will the Air Force even let me go?

Any info would be great, thanks dudes!

[BQZip01]

Revival

I can't believe I am about to post this, but I don't know where else to start...and you guys rock!

On the same sort of topic, I’m thinking about going Blue to Marine (Red, I guess, but that sounds bad) in Aviation. I am awaiting pilot training right now and have about 8 months until my start date. Five years ago I was set on the Air Force because it seemed like the perfect thing to do; now I am not so sure. I have talked to a few rated guys (both young and seasoned) and some of them have told me to look into transferring to the Marines to try and fly. I figured it would be a little easier because I already have a pilot slot and I am commissioned. So would it be better to wait until I finish UPT and look at transferring or try like hell now and see if it happens?

So where do I start and who do I talk to? Will the Air Force even let me go?

Any info would be great, thanks dudes!

I would heavily doubt that the AF would let you go. Realize the positives and negatives about your choices (did you know that the Marines have a 67% attrition rate every 4 years?) and then make your choice. Once the Air Force trains you, they REALLY aren't going to want to let you go, so make the choice now rather than later. If you'd like some insight into the "real" Air Force vs. UPT and the other services, fire me a private message; I won't pull punches, even on the AF.

[Guest CAVEMAN]

I would heavily doubt that the AF would let you go. Realize the positives and negatives about your choices (did you know that the Marines have a 67% attrition rate every 4 years?) and then make your choice. Once the Air Force trains you, they REALLY aren't going to want to let you go, so make the choice now rather than later. If you'd like some insight into the "real" Air Force vs. UPT and the other services, fire me a private message; I won't pull punches, even on the AF.

Where did you get your stats from?

Aviators do not have a 4 year service commitment so what are you trying to imply? You comparing apples and oranges

[flyguy2181]

Revival

I figured it would be a little easier because I already have a pilot slot and I am commissioned. So would it be better to wait until I finish UPT and look at transferring or try like hell now and see if it happens?

So where do I start and who do I talk to? Will the Air Force even let me go?

I do not believe it will be easier to get a pilot slot w/ the marines because you have one w/ the AF (it might make you look worse... it could be argued that you had a great thing w/ the AF and then gave it away, why should you be rewarded w/ another great chance w/ the Marines).

I can almost gurantee that once you are a rated pilot in the AF, they will not let you go. The AF will let you out of a pilot slot though. And if you have no prior experience, the AF may let you transfer to another service. I'm just wondering if the Marines would want you, since you didn't go through the experience of "becoming a Marine"

My $.02

[yerfer]

I do not believe it will be easier to get a pilot slot w/ the marines because you have one w/ the AF (it might make you look worse... it could be argued that you had a great thing w/ the AF and then gave it away, why should you be rewarded w/ another great chance w/ the Marines).

I can almost gurantee that once you are a rated pilot in the AF, they will not let you go. The AF will let you out of a pilot slot though. And if you have no prior experience, the AF may let you transfer to another service. I'm just wondering if the Marines would want you, since you didn't go through the experience of "becoming a Marine"

My $.02

The AF won't let him go PERIOD. I already have a buddy who tried to do this. If you do your time with the AF and then try the transfer, it's possible. Key word...TIME.

I'm pretty damn sure you'd still have to go through the Marines OCS and TBS, because the AF officer training is no where near the same as the Marines.

Also, you'd need to take the ASTB and score a 444 or 666 to be competitive for SNA.

I tried to help another buddy from ROTC transfer to the Marines PLC program and the Marines definitely wanted him, but its the Air Force who won't let you go. Once they've started putting money into you, its over.

Speak to a OSO near you to see what the chances are. If they say no, hey, you've still gotta slot with the AF and that's something to be grateful about.

[lj35driver]

Wow is all I've got to say...well, maybe get your fvckin' head examined as well, to all those wanting to xfer when they've got a pilot slot w/the AF already. If you really think life/opportunities could be that much better in the Army, do this- finish UPT, spend a little time in your new unit, then volunteer for the first ILO deployment(they're calling them JET deployments now I guess) you see in all the DPARobot emails you'll receive daily. Spend 7 1/2 months throwing on another services uniform and 80+ lbs of body armor, weapons, and ammo daily to go do a job that the other service wasn't exactly truthful on what it entailed and provided 3 weeks of piss poor training to teach you how to do. You'll wake up everyday of that deployment thanking yourself that you had the common to sense to join the AF instead of the Army. I didn't volunteer to go do my deployment, but it sure did make me see how MUCH better we've got it. There were alot of guys I worked with who were on their 4th 1 year tour in the past 7 years. What sort of life is that?

[BQZip01]

Where did you get your stats from?

Aviators do not have a 4 year service commitment so what are you trying to imply? You comparing apples and oranges

My stats come from the Marine Corps directly. It's also how they are designed: physically use them to their max and then they're done. Nothing wrong with that, but it is their philosophy. My point is that they use up their people in different ways and it is a completely different lifestyle; know what you're getting into.

[OverTQ]

Wow is all I've got to say...well, maybe get your fvckin' head examined as well, to all those wanting to xfer when they've got a pilot slot w/the AF already. If you really think life/opportunities could be that much better in the Army, do this- finish UPT, spend a little time in your new unit, then volunteer for the first ILO deployment(they're calling them JET deployments now I guess) you see in all the DPARobot emails you'll receive daily. Spend 7 1/2 months throwing on another services uniform and 80+ lbs of body armor, weapons, and ammo daily to go do a job that the other service wasn't exactly truthful on what it entailed and provided 3 weeks of piss poor training to teach you how to do. You'll wake up everyday of that deployment thanking yourself that you had the common to sense to join the AF instead of the Army. I didn't volunteer to go do my deployment, but it sure did make me see how MUCH better we've got it. There were alot of guys I worked with who were on their 4th 1 year tour in the past 7 years. What sort of life is that?

All one persons point of view I guess. I was an Apache pilot doing all that field work. Now I am a FW pilot flying VIPS around and spending most of my time being an Army guy living the AF life. Truth is I miss the dirty work. Some of us don't do things because they are easy. We do them because they are hard make lesser individuals wine like a turbine. It also depends on why you are joining. If it is simple to be a pilot, the AF is better for sure. If it is to be a warrior, USMC or Army.

[Guest LDTW]

If it is simple to be a pilot, the AF is better for sure. If it is to be a warrior, USMC or Army.

Damnit! I didn't know only Army and Marine helicopter pilots were warriors. Oops. So where do I sign up for the Corps?

Edited December 23, 2008 by LDTW

[JarheadBoom]

Damnit! I didn't know only Army and Marine helicopter pilots were warriors. Oops.

I can't/won't speak for the Army, but as a Marine officer, you will learn to lead troops in ground combat, in the field at TBS, before you go any further in the Corps. If you can't do it, you'll be shown the door. This makes an entirely different kind of warrior than what 95% of the AF thinks of when they hear the word "warrior".

So where do I sign up for the Corps?

Find a Marine OSO (Officer Selection Officer) if you think you've got what it takes.

[Guest LDTW]

I can't/won't speak for the Army, but as a Marine officer, you will learn to lead troops in ground combat, in the field at TBS, before you go any further in the Corps. If you can't do it, you'll be shown the door. This makes an entirely different kind of warrior than what 95% of the AF thinks of when they hear the word "warrior".

Find a Marine OSO (Officer Selection Officer) if you think you've got what it takes.

I actually like the Marine's approach to training - Marine first, whatever else second. Two good buddies of mine are Marines, and as much as they would like to see me in the Corps, I will stick with the Air Force.

I was being sarcastic with my post, but I understand OverTQ's sentiment. The Air Force version of "warrior" isn't exactly the same as that for soldiers and Marines. In the Air Force, "warrior" just seems more like another Air Force buzz word.

[163 FS]

Damnit! I didn't know only Army and Marine helicopter pilots were warriors. Oops. So where do I sign up for the Corps?

Nope, everyone in the Air Force is a "Warrior." The USAF Heritage of America Band tells us so. See track #4.

I hope everyone knows that this was a sarcastic post.

[Murph]

Damnit! I didn't know only Army and Marine helicopter pilots were warriors. Oops. So where do I sign up for the Corps?

Sorry dude, deploy a few times and watch the AH-64 guys in korengal and kamdesh hang it out EVERY night. In OEF and OIF, we (USAF) don't hold a candle to that.

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Wow is all I've got to say...well, maybe get your fvckin' head examined as well, to all those wanting to xfer when they've got a pilot slot w/the AF already. If you really think life/opportunities could be that much better in the Army, do this- finish UPT, spend a little time in your new unit, then volunteer for the first ILO deployment(they're calling them JET deployments now I guess) you see in all the DPARobot emails you'll receive daily. Spend 7 1/2 months throwing on another services uniform and 80+ lbs of body armor, weapons, and ammo daily to go do a job that the other service wasn't exactly truthful on what it entailed and provided 3 weeks of piss poor training to teach you how to do. You'll wake up everyday of that deployment thanking yourself that you had the common to sense to join the AF instead of the Army. I didn't volunteer to go do my deployment, but it sure did make me see how MUCH better we've got it. There were alot of guys I worked with who were on their 4th 1 year tour in the past 7 years. What sort of life is that?

The Airforce is suffering because of the kind of attitude that you display. You are a fvcking junior officer and I will expect that one day you will rise to the top and lead Airmen with that attitude. Do you now see that the AF is really going to self destruct. When we have young men and women doing the necessary to win the war our nations is in. Mind you, these 17 and 18 year olds want to serve without care for the warm rack and other such comforts. You should be ashamed of yourself. Whining about the Army not being truthfull. Who gives a ###### about your personal comfort; how about getting the job done. Your service to your country is not measured by the amount of comfort you can get while receiving a pay cheque in return for your service.

What sort of life?

You are obviously young and foolish.

Cave

[lj35driver]

You are a fvcking junior officer

This is the only thing truthful that you've manged to write. I'm a junior officer who is within a few years of retirement and have done more to support their sister services that most people in this group can begin to think about. WTF!?!?! Get off your high horse and take a second to read what has been said instead of feeling the need to publicly beat someone in this group down. I would've expected that little bit of respect from you based on some of your past posts in this group.

When we have young men and women doing the necessary to win the war our nations is in. Mind you, these 17 and 18 year olds want to serve without care for the warm rack and other such comforts. You should be ashamed of yourself. Whining about the Army not being truthful. Who gives a ###### about your personal comfort

Where exactly did I ever complain about personal comfort? I didn't because it's not there! If fact, my personal comfort on most of the AF deployments I've been on were far worse. Honestly, if you didn't do the job I was sent to do, you have absolutely no clue as to how poorly the Army did training me to do what was expected. How would you feel daily working with soldiers who ventured into the highest risk areas when you knew that you were inadequately trained to do the job. I trained, advised, and worked outside the wire with Military Transition Teams for 7 months as an EW/counter IED specialist. What was my expertise in this area? I had none other than the 3 weeks of training I mentioned. You take it and try to make the best of it, but the sh1t was so outdated compared to what was going on in theater it was ridiculous. I honestly felt like I was being setup to fail. It was a daily struggle to keep up with what was going on with limited resources and stay on top of what was killing guys and how to best to counter it day to day. The worst thing was those guys looking to me as a technical expert on something well outside of my realm and believing that I could protect them from any roadside bomb they might happen upon. Was any of this in description of what the job entailed? Not just no, but hell no! I'm sure you'll take that as "complaining" but it's about providing the right expertise to best serve those Soldiers. So yes, the Army wasn't truthful and put their own people at greater risk by doing so.

how about getting the job done.

Believe me, it got done and done well, but when it's your life on the line wouldn't you want someone who was adequately trained to do that job? Once again, where did I complain about comfort and a paycheck. Again, it's not there and you can't make it be there no matter how many times you read the post. In fact, I give those guys a lot of credit when I mention how many extended deployments they've endured in a short time. That takes a lot and even more so from their families.

My post was aimed at the couple of guys in this thread who are about to begin career #1 and are wanting to ask for career #2 before #1 has even started. They're about to throw away an opportunity that 99.999% of people will never have a chance at and that someone else would've given their left nut to be sitting in their shoes. I wasn't knocking the Army or the Marines, just that people join for different reasons and they should've weighed that before asking Big Blue for a shot. My point- don't put yourself in a position you might regret because this is the one and only time it'll be offered. If you want to experience that side, then there will be plenty of opportunities in the future after you've been through UPT. Maybe you can get past name calling games long enough to not have such a narrow minded view. That's what is causing the so-called self destruction of the AF that you feel is happening.

Like Apache mentioned above doing those things that are hard and doing the dirty work, it's not for everyone. I got to where I'm at now through the hard way and by taking on those things that are tough. I know the things that the average Soldier and Marine do are tough because I've done them as well with about 1% of the training they normally get. Being a MTT or BCT guy and kicking down doors on a daily basis isn't for me and that's why I made the choices I did. Doing those things though did give me the benefit of seeing and appreciating those ops from a perspective that most airmen will never see. I got to meet a lot of Iraqi citizens who believe in what we're doing for their country and show their gratitude for us being there. More airmen should take a trip out there beyond the comforts of their FOB and quit thinking that enforcing reflective belt policies and handing out towels is mission #1.

What sort of life?

You are obviously young and foolish.

The life they lead uses their people up mentally, physically, and emotionally. This doesn't even go into the toll it takes on the families who are left behind everytime someone is sent on deployment after extended deployment. It's a travesty when the Army CoS gets on AFN and talks about how families are so important to him. His own soldiers cringe and roll their eyes in the same way I saw the AF do whenever a "He who shall not be named" commercial came on.

Either way you take what I had to say, I respect the hell out what those guys do. Ashamed, young, or foolish..not hardly.

Edited December 28, 2008 by lj35driver