Death at Manas?

[Herk Driver]

WTFO?

The crawler on the bottom of the screen for an ABC news program just said that the US military is announcing that a servicemember shot and killed a civilian on a US base in Krygyzstan.

Edit: military dude killed someone, not other way around

This could get interesting.

AP article

[ 06. December 2006, 15:50: Message edited by: Herk Driver ]

[Guest stusakss]

Although killing someone is never a "good" thing, good on the cop for using the force required to stop a threat to the resources hey was responible for.

If he did the right thing, this story will go away pretty quickly.

[M2]

The latest...

U.S.: Airman in Kyrgyzstan acted properly

By LEILA SARALAYEVA, Associated Press Writer

A U.S. serviceman who fatally shot a Kyrgyz truck driver had been threatened with a knife and responded as his training required, the U.S. air base said Friday.

President Kurmanbek Bakiyev has called for the immunity of U.S. troops deployed in Kyrgyzstan to be lifted after Alexander Ivanov was shot and killed Wednesday during a security check at the entrance to Manas Air Base.

At Ivanov's funeral Friday, one of his sons demanded that "the guilty man be punished."

The base said in a statement that the U.S. airman fired at Ivanov after the 42-year-old driver threatened him with a knife.

"If a Security Force member's life is threatened, they are trained to expend two shots to the upper torso ... to ensure the highest opportunity to neutralize the threat," the statement said.

"Security Forces are taught to act immediately and instinctively based on extensive training," it said. Kyrgyz police said a knife was found at the scene.

The statement said the U.S. airman, whom Kyrgyz authorities identified as Zachary Hatfield, remained in Kyrgyzstan while an investigation was under way.

The Foreign Ministry on Thursday delivered a note to the U.S. Embassy demanding that the airman's immunity be lifted. Status of Forces Agreements in many countries where U.S. military personnel are stationed grant them varying levels of legal immunity.

About 200 friends and relatives attended Ivanov's funeral Friday, including U.S. Ambassador Marie L. Yovanovitch and the Manas Air Base commander U.S. Air Force Col. Joel Reese.

Ivanov's 15-year-old son, Denis, fainted twice during the ceremony.

His other son, 20-year-old Vadim, said he didn't believe his father could have threatened anyone.

"He told me often that American soldiers behaved insolently and unceremoniously," he said. "I want only one thing: that the guilty man be punished," he said.

Ivanov's colleagues accused the U.S. servicemen of behaving disrespectfully toward local workers. Yevgenyi Trai said he and his co-workers have decided to deliver fuel to the airport, bypassing the U.S. military checkpoint, "because there is a threat to our lives there."

"Americans are boorish with us, pushing us into the (security tent) with gun butts," Trai said.

Other colleagues also complained that U.S. base officials had never instructed local workers on how to behave around the servicemen and never explained what they might perceive as threat.

The U.S. air base near the capital of Bishkek is used to support operations in nearby Afghanistan.

(Source)

Cheers! M2

[Vandal]

From af.mil

12/8/2006 - MANAS AIR BASE, Kyrgyzstan (AFPN) -- The driver of a truck operated by a local fuel company Dec. 6 at approximately 3 p.m. local time was shot and killed by a 376th Expeditionary Security Forces Squadron Airman.

The driver had stopped at the checkpoint for a routine inspection of his vehicle. Then went into a security tent to wait for his vehicle to be inspected.

As the Airman approached the tent, the driver physically threatened him with a knife which was later discovered at the scene. The Airman drew his 9mm weapon and fired in self defense.

The driver was shot twice in the chest which in accordance with Air Force security forces training is standard procedure. During close-quarter engagements, and when armed with a hand gun, if a security forces member's life is threatened, they are trained to expend two shots to the upper torso, center mass to ensure the highest opportunity to neutralize the threat. Security forces are taught to act immediately and instinctively based on extensive training.

Air Force medics arrived on the scene and began cardiopulmonary resuscitation on the driver and continued life-saving techniques while transporting him to the Manas Air Base hospital. The driver was brought to the emergency room, where a team of doctors tried to revive him. He was later pronounced dead.

A Manas airport ambulance arrived in the evening to take the driver's body to the morgue.

The Airman has been placed off duty and his weapon was turned in. This is standard procedure in any shooting incident while an investigation is in progress. The Airman remains on base.

The Office of Special Investigations is investigating the incident, working jointly with Kyrgyz investigators. One goal of the investigation is to not only determine what happened, but why it happened.

[Guest stusakss]

Good on em. It is sad, of course that a family lost a father and husband, but to say that the locals need training to figure out that threatening with a knife is dangerous? Come on...plus I think that training just happened.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Thread revival.

Kyrgyz are faulting the Airman in the encounter, and demanding the US hand him over.

Looks like lots and lots of fallout from the Metzger affair...

https://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1...925-2411990.php

Airman shot Kyrgyz man in self-defense, service says

Staff reports

A security forces airman at Manas Air Base in Kyrgyzstan shot and killed a civilian truck driver on Dec. 6 because he believed the man was threatening him with a knife, an Air Force statement said.

The Air Force’s explanation of the shooting comes at the same time the Kyrgyzstan government is calling for a change to an agreement that prevents U.S. servicemen at Manas from being prosecuted by Kyrgyzstan. Earlier in the week, the Kyrgyzstan Foreign Ministry sent a request to the U.S. Embassy demanding that the United States waive the immunity of the 376th Expeditionary Security Forces Squadron airman, whom it identified as Zachary Hatfield.

The incidents leading up to the shooting began when the fuel truck driver stopped at a base checkpoint at about 3 p.m. for a routine inspection of his vehicle and then went into a security tent to wait for his truck to be searched, the Air Force said.

Kyrgyzstan authorities identified the driver as 42-year-old Alexander Ivanov.

When the security forces airman approached the tent, Ivanov threatened him with a knife, the Air Force said. The airman drew his 9mm sidearm and fired in self defense, the Air Force said, striking Ivanov twice in the chest. A knife was later discovered at the scene.

Air Force medics arrived on the scene and began cardiopulmonary resuscitation on Ivanov, continuing their life-saving efforts while en route to the base hospital’s emergency room, where a team of doctors tried to revive him. Ivanov was later pronounced dead.

That the airman fired twice and struck Ivanov in the chest was in line with the training security forces airmen are given, the report said. If an airman’s life is threatened in a close-quarters situation, the airman is trained to fire two shots to assailant’s the upper torso to ensure the highest opportunity to stop the attacker. Security forces are taught to act immediately and instinctively, the report noted.

Following standard procedures for a shooting, the airman was asked to turn in his weapon and has been placed on off-duty status. The airman remains at Manas.

The Office of Special Investigations is looking into the incident, working jointly with Kyrgyz investigators, the Air Force said.

Kyrgyzstan President Kurmanbek Bakiyev called Thursday for U.S. troops deployed in this former Soviet republic to be stripped of diplomatic immunity.

“It would be reasonable if U.S. military based in Kyrgyzstan were brought to account for their illegal actions in accordance with national law,” Bakiyev told U.S. Ambassador Marie L. Yovanovitch, according to the president’s press office.

Under an agreement between the U.S. and Kyrgyz governments, U.S. personnel deployed in Kyrgyzstan have immunity from prosecution under Kyrgyz law.

About 1,000 troops are stationed at Manas. The Air Force set up the base as transit point for troops rotating in and out of Afghanistan and as a cargo and airlift hub for the region.

[Clayton Bigsby]

...and if you don't do things our way, we'll kick you out. Even though you are, by far, our biggest moneymaker.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1...925-2426163.php

Kyrgyzstan government reconsidering U.S. presence

The Associated Press

BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan — Kyrgyzstan’s Parliament on Friday questioned further U.S. military presence in the country after a U.S. serviceman fatally shot a Kyrgyz civilian.

Lawmakers in the former Soviet republic voted unanimously for a resolution asking the government to reconsider “the expediency” of allowing the U.S. military to maintain the Manas Air Base on Kyrgyz territory, following an incident on Dec. 6 in which a U.S. airman shot to death a Kyrgyz truck driver at the base.

In an official statement released soon after the incident, the base said the serviceman fired in self-defense after the driver threatened him with a knife.

Lawmakers accused officials at the base of hindering an inquiry into the incident by not allowing Kyrgyz investigators to question the airman and examine his gun.

“The Kyrgyz people are seriously indignant at the fact that the American side is slow in responding to, or completely ignores, Kyrgyzstan’s requests,” the parliamentary resolution said.

The resolution also called for the lifting of immunity of U.S. troops deployed in the country.

Status of Forces Agreements between the U.S. and countries where U.S. military personnel are stationed grant American service members varying levels of legal immunity.

In the resolution, the Kyrgyz Parliament also said the shooting “extended a list of incidents linked with the base that create a negative U.S. image among our people.”

In September, a U.S. servicewoman deployed at the base vanished while shopping in Bishkek, the Kyrgyz capital. She reappeared several days later, claiming she had been kidnapped. She was flown out of the country hours after reappearing and Kyrgyz investigators complained they could not properly complete their inquiry.

Kyrgyz authorities also blame the crew of a U.S. military tanker plane for a September collision with a passenger jet that caused a fire, but no injuries, at the nation’s main airport.

The U.S. air base near Bishkek supports operations in nearby Afghanistan.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by press release:

Lawmakers accused officials at the base of hindering an inquiry into the incident by not allowing Kyrgyz investigators to question the airman and examine his gun.

Didn't you just say our service members in your country have......

Originally posted by press release:

Kyrgyzstan President Kurmanbek Bakiyev called Thursday for U.S. troops deployed in this former Soviet republic to be stripped of diplomatic immunity.

You can howl for us to turn the cop over to you all you want, but while the incident happend, he was protected under the SOFA that YOU signed.

Kyrgyzstan's poetic speechs are getting lame.

--------------------------------------------------------------

"Welcome country of my home Kyrgyzstan!"

"Here we have the many women sexy time."

"We also have new the system mass transit for make better transportation through country."

"We famous for great ATC system. Of all former republic Soviet Union, is number one.

HD

[ 20. December 2006, 23:28: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]

[AFCS_Actuator]

^^

To HD:

"Great Success"

[Clayton Bigsby]

Kyrgyzstan threatens to evict Air Force

By Erik Holmes

staff writer

A diplomatic flap between the U.S. and Kyrgyzstan has escalated to the point that Kyrgyz lawmakers are threatening to evict the U.S. Air Force from Manas Air Base, the only remaining U.S. base in a central Asian country other than Afghanistan.

But observers say that is unlikely to happen and wouldn’t be more than an inconvenience to the Air Force even if it did.

“The risk of [the U.S.] getting kicked out … I think is fairly low,” said Olga Oliker, a senior international policy analyst at the Rand Corp., a defense research organization. “We’ve been using Manas for a while, [and] it’s certainly important. [but] it doesn’t mean we couldn’t get by without it. We could. We will find work-arounds.”

The U.S. has flown refueling and airlift missions supporting Operation Enduring Freedom out of Kyrgyzstan since 2001, but the relationship between the two countries has grown increasingly strained.

The most recent disagreement stems from the Dec. 6 shooting of a Kyrgyz truck driver by an airman from the 376th Expeditionary Security Forces Squadron at Manas.

The incident is still under investigation, but the Air Force said Dec. 8 that the airman acted in self-defense after the truck driver threatened him with a knife. Kyrgyz officials have demanded access to the airman, but the U.S. State Department has agreed only to allow Kyrgyz authorities to submit questions to the airman and to observe questioning by Air Force investigators.

That offer apparently was unacceptable to Kyrgyz authorities. The Kyrgyz parliament passed a resolution Dec. 15 calling for the government to review whether the U.S. should be allowed to continue operating its base in the country, the publication EurasiaNet reported.

The resolution said a “list of incidents connected with the airbase [has] provided a negative perception of the U.S.”

Recent incidents include a Sept. 26 collision between a KC-135R Stratotanker and a Kyrgyzstan commercial airliner, the expulsion of two U.S. diplomats in July and the Sept. 5 disappearance of Air Force Maj. Jill Metzger, who was found and quickly flown out of the country despite Kyrgyz requests for more access to her.

Oliker, an expert on central Asia, said Kyrgyzstan is unlikely to expel U.S. forces in part because the U.S. pays the Kyrgyz government about $150 million per year for the right to operate the base.

“They’re not going to give that up,” she said. “Kyrgyzstan isn’t terribly wealthy, and it’s kind of at a place where it needs all the help it can get.”

Kyrgyzstan’s government had a 2005 budget of about $540 million, according to the CIA’s World Factbook.

The more significant concern, he said, is the importance of Kyrgyzstan — which borders China — as a strategic foothold in the region.

“We should look at this in a long-term perspective rather than just worrying about what we need to support Afghanistan,” he said. “What do we need to support our interests in that whole region?”

https://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1...925-2441183.php

[Guest Hydro130]

Dang, it was sad to see K2 go, and now possibly Manas? Ouch. Ain't much other readily available tanker / airlift rampspace in that neck of the woods.

I guess we'll just have to throw lots more $$$ at them; that worked at K2 for while..

Cheers, Hydro

[Smokin]

Almost 25% of their total budget? Sounds like they need us a lot more than we need them. The government has to make a stink about it. It's a chance for them to try to get more money and show that they are taking the side of the people. What would the people think if the gov't didn't say anything about all this?

[M2]

J. Bones

Next time you post an article, please delete any and all references to retired (thank God) Gen Robert "Doc" Fogelnuts. A vast majority of us didn't care what he thought when he was USAFE/CC...and the same care even less now that he is at MSU.

Cheers! M2

[HerkDerka]

Five bucks says the press didn't seek him out. He called them for the interview.

HD

[M2]

HD

Y'know that's a sucker bet...maybe one of the SNAPs may fall for it; but none of us who know Doc would throw our money away so easily.

Cheers! M2

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by M2:

Y'know that's a sucker bet...maybe one of the SNAPs may fall for it

Dammit M2.

HD

[Stiffler]

So maj jill metzger has a very strong part to play in this strained relationship, yet we dont hear anything about it/her anymore. I think she should apologize to the whole country on national TV for taking her problems and blaming them on their country.

[Vandal]

Regardless of the the Borat-stanis say I am thinking that it was a good shoot since it appears to have been swept under the carpet. If the cop was in the wrong they (Big Blue) would be trying to lynch the guy.

[Guest MeowMix]

This is too bad, I know that Airmen are pretty restrained and the kids at the gate are usually just doing their job and have the M16s only as defensive weapons. I have NEVER seen a guard at any base be a super-rambo-wannaBe. Most are worn out, want to go home and inspect IDs and cars per orders.

My hunch is the Kyrgi really did pull a knife to see how far he could go like the Muslims on our airliners. Sadly, you pull a weapon or THREATEN somebody with a gun defending a military base, you open up the door to violence.

You are guys are right, they need us more than we need them, so I wonder what all the barking is about. Perhaps like the Uzbeks (which were very appreicative people at K2) they will miss our $$$ when we are gone.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by MeowMix:

You are guys are right, they need us more than we need them

I'm not so sure about that.