Debt Repayment

[capt4fans]

So, I get the letter in the mail last week (while I'm deployed) saying that I owe the gov't money from a PCS that is 4+ years old. Any chance they waited too long to send out this request and I can totally disregard it? Is there a statute of limitations on when they can ask for this money back? I've searched the boards with no luck, and then I tried to search the DFAS website, might as well just asked to be kicked in the nuts for 30 minutes. The getting kicked in the nuts would have been more fun.

Already tried everything I can think of. Would appreciate any help on this matter. Thanks guys.

Edit for spelling--three times. Apparently I really suck at spelling today.

Edited August 31, 2010 by capt4fans

[Guest]

[capt4fans]

Thanks Rainman.......huge help.

[Learjetter]

If it's a legit debt, how about just paying it back?

Fly safe!

[contraildash]

I see what he is getting at here. If I forget to claim something when I PCS, I can't go back years later and claim it. (so I've been told) Barring any of the usual responses (this is big blue we are dealing with) why should this be any different just because the roles are reversed?

FWIW: at least they sent you a letter and didn't just take the money out of your pay.

[DFRESH]

I see what he is getting at here. If I forget to claim something when I PCS, I can't go back years later and claim it. (so I've been told) Barring any of the usual responses (this is big blue we are dealing with) why should this be any different just because the roles are reversed?

FWIW: at least they sent you a letter and didn't just take the money out of your pay.

Where are the standards here? If you drop a bomb on the wrong place and kill a ton of civilians, you can't go back 4 years later and un-explode it.

[Guest]

Where are the standards here? If you drop a bomb on the wrong place and kill a ton of civilians, you can't go back 4 years later and un-explode it.

Just so I'm clear, what is your point here?

[Guest]

If it's a legit debt, how about just paying it back?

No shit.

DFRESH, do not insert confusion into Rainman's thread.

I think that's funny, right?

[pawnman]

I see what he is getting at here. If I forget to claim something when I PCS, I can't go back years later and claim it. (so I've been told) Barring any of the usual responses (this is big blue we are dealing with) why should this be any different just because the roles are reversed?

FWIW: at least they sent you a letter and didn't just take the money out of your pay.

No shit. I have a buddy who had something similar happen, and his first notification was the $300 paycheck.

[Danny Noonin]

overpaid or not, why is anyone auditing PCS vouchers from 4+ years ago? Don't they have enough recent stuff to look over to verify that it's right?

[contraildash]

I know someone that climbed over the fence, up on that thing, and pissed all over it.

back to the topic,

When I was forced to live on base and store my HHG, I was told that it was out of my pocket. The reasoning was that I declined to move my stuff (from a 2 bedroom apt) into the single room dorm, therefore it was my problem. Two years later, leaving that base I was told that it was incorrect and when I tried to recoup the 6 months of storage payments I was told that I was SOL and should have figured it out earlier.

So, it's painful to see how they won't give you money you deserve, but won't miss a second when it comes to taking it back. Like I said before, at least they sent you a letter and didn't just take it.

2 on why the heck is someone auditing PCS moves from four years ago???

[Guest Crew Report]

No shit. I have a buddy who had something similar happen, and his first notification was the $300 paycheck.

Whenever I owed a debt (and it wasn't taxes that come straight out) I was always notified by email/letter from finance.

[Magellan]

Whenever I owed a debt (and it wasn't taxes that come straight out) I was always notified by email/letter from finance.

You are the first person I have ever heard of getting advanced notice...did you get a reach around as well while they were at it?

That said if you are stuck between a rock and a hard place file to pay it off over 12 months while you fight it, and even if you can't win it lessens the damage as it is spread out vs them taking it all at once.

[Duck]

overpaid or not, why is anyone auditing PCS vouchers from 4+ years ago? Don't they have enough recent stuff to look over to verify that it's right?

Because rather than paying my travel voucher that has been sitting at Ellsworth for almost two months... they are trying to figure out what was happening 4 years ago. So based on the timeline... I should expect my travel voucher in 4 years.

If Ellsworth wasn't Ellsworth, I would vote to send Finance Guy up to sort them out.

[capt4fans]

If it's a legit debt, how about just paying it back?

Fly safe!

Learjettter.....Hey SNAP, go back into the corner and drink your Kool-Aid. I'll call you when I want the answer from the person who live in a bubble and can’t think outside the box. How about I'm trying to find out if it is legit? How about if they can't actually try and collect, then there's no reason to pay back something that I was paid 4+ years ago? How about if I’m not legally responsible to pay it back? I realize you can’t think that way, but I was asking a perfectly legit question. Go back to your Lear hauling around people who out rank you by about 6 levels and when you’ve grown up we’ll talk some more.

[capt4fans]

I'm pretty sure I was overpaid. I've got two deposits in my electronic checkbook. I was far away from any Air Force base with support to get any help. I'd like to thank all of you for weighing in with the smartass comments, I think I've got my answer. No, it's not a hardship, but if I don't have to pay Big Blue, I'm not going to pay Big Blue. Just thought there would be someone with more information out there than I have.

[pawnman]

Because rather than paying my travel voucher that has been sitting at Ellsworth for almost two months... they are trying to figure out what was happening 4 years ago. So based on the timeline... I should expect my travel voucher in 4 years.

If Ellsworth wasn't Ellsworth, I would vote to send Finance Guy up to sort them out.

Wouldn't help. The Financial Services Center folks are too busy getting DUIs at Sturgis.

[Guest]

Well, what's the answer?

$100 says you have to pay it back.

If I'm wrong and there is a "statue" of limitations, I'll pay you in 4 years.

Fail.

I'll double the $100 and pay you in four years and one day.

Learjettter.....Hey SNAP, go back into the corner and drink your Kool-Aid. I'll call you when I want the answer from the person who live in a bubble and can’t think outside the box. How about I'm trying to find out if it is legit? How about if they can't actually try and collect, then there's no reason to pay back something that I was paid 4+ years ago? How about if I’m not legally responsible to pay it back? I realize you can’t think that way, but I was asking a perfectly legit question. Go back to your Lear hauling around people who out rank you by about 6 levels and when you’ve grown up we’ll talk some more.

Sounds like someone needs a little help...

[capt4fans]

Well, what's the answer?

$100 says you have to pay it back.

If I'm wrong and there is a "statue" of limitations, I'll pay you in 4 years.

Well, I said "think I have my answer" Still waiting on the rest of it. The first part is there is no limitation. But, don't have and LES's from that time frame to make sure that they didn't already take the money and are trying to get it again. Because that has never happened. Big Blue never makes a mistake when it comes to money.

And, no, I'm fine. Been away from home too long and need to get back. Learjet is an asshole and I can't change that. Ask a simple question, and get a jackass response.

[Butters]

Sorry, I was making smartass comments in other threads and missed this one.

1. Tell them you think they already took it back 3 years ago, then make them prove they didn't.

2. 5 years later, if they figure they didn't and you still owe money make sure you make them divide the payments out over 12 months.

This happened to me when I joined the AF. I was paid $150 a month my last year in ROTC and was not suppose to be paid since I was not on scholarship. Kept bringing this mistake up to them and I was repeatedly told I was wrong and the money was mine. A year later they asked for their money back and I said they could have it at the same rate they gave it to me.

Don't even get me started on the leave they took from me by mistake and I spent 1.33 (repeating) years getting it back.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Butters

[Butters]

ADDED: Before some academy grad jumps in about "Well, you owe this money, so pay it back", remember, they may have already taken it back and unless they prove they didn't you might really get screwed. If they take it back twice, you will be an old man before you get it back. If the system worked where they could give you money back as quick as they can take it, I would be giving you different advice.

[capt4fans]

I realize they mave taken it out already. That's what I'm still trying to track down. Again, if they've already taken it out, then it's not a legit debt. If they actually (legally) can't ask for the money back, it's not a legit debt. Apparently that train of thought has left the station for some people (Learjet). I know it's hard to follow that logic, but I understand how the system works. I'm hoping to get the rest of the answers soon.

[Gravedigger]

I have had to pay about 7 debts since I've been in the Air Force, which is pretty frocking ridiculous. One of the times I tried the proof must come from the accusatory party (like in the civilian world) and they showed me some reg that said they can basically take any amount of money whenever they want without showing you anything at all. A few months ago I went in to claim a debt against the Air Force for charging me family SGLI for 6 months AFTER I declined family SGLI, with all the supporting paperwork and they straight up told me no. I said that's bullshit and they told me I could start an appeal process that takes several hours to complete and possibly over a year to pay.

Bottom line, they are going to screw you no matter what.

[LJ Driver]

I realize they mave taken it out already. That's what I'm still trying to track down. Again, if they've already taken it out, then it's not a legit debt. If they actually (legally) can't ask for the money back, it's not a legit debt. Apparently that train of thought has left the station for some people (Learjet). I know it's hard to follow that logic, but I understand how the system works. I'm hoping to get the rest of the answers soon.

Dude, take some Midol and STFU about the asswisery. Have you been here before? We give each other shit all the time. I'd think that someone with several hundred posts has actually seen this happen...

[Guest Hueypilot812]

When it comes to finance, there is no such thing as "fair". I've had several issues over the years with them and when it's my fault, I'm expected to jump through hoops to satisfy the issue. If it's their fault, the attitude is "meh, we'll take care of it one day". Is it right? No...I think we all know that. But that's the way it is. Best cure I've found for finance idiocy is to get leadership involved. That usually fixes it.

I've had plenty of dealings with them lately, such as the travel voucher they've taken 3 months to pay...latest on that is they paid 2/3s of the voucher, but wouldn't pay the rental car because they were "confused" about which fund cite to use, despite the travel orders stating "Unit Funded Rental Car: <fund cite>".

While I was in Iraq for my 365, I got a medical waiver because my physical came due the last month I was over there. I was waived an additional 3 months to give me time to get home and get a new physical. The HARM office noted my old physical expiration date, and somehow the waiver didn't make it from the clinic to the HARM office. Prior to checking with anyone, HARM and finance turned off my flight pay, and then finance hit me with a $1,300 deduction for back-dated flight pay...as I was returning home and trying to get moved back into a new place.

When I approached the HARM office, they were very apologetic that they didn't take the time to call and confirm with someone else that my physical had indeed been overdue and to see if I was on a waiver or not. Finance was a different story. I asked them to reverse the debt and they told me I'd get repaid at a different date. I asked them what was I gonna do this month now that I'm $1,300 short and I got the old shoulder shrug..."sucks for you dude". It took nearly three months to get both my $1,300 back AND to get them to pay my flight pay to me again. HARM got the flight pay turned back on, but finance screwed up and one check said "ACIP - $0". They said "it's turned on, they just didn't pay you anything". Great, and somehow this is acceptable? You're going to sit there and smile at me as if there's nothing wrong?

Basically, they took my flight pay in a hurry, ASAP. But there was no sense of urgency to repay me what they took or fix what they had turned off. When I heard "well at least you'll get a really large payment in a few months" for the third time, I was ready to kick someone in the junk. Stop acting like my repayment is like some kind of bonus...it's not...it's money I was supposed to get paid a long time ago, and I've been eating ing ramen noodles and PBJ for months now because you guys are clowns.