Col John Boyd

[Royal]

Probably most people here know a majority of this info, but it's still a good read. It was written by Chuck Spinney, so it's all first hand information. I didn't see it attached anywhere else; if it, please disregard.

Favorite line about the Col: "To make matters worse, he had an IQ of only 90, which he claimed was an advantage because it forced him to be more efficient."

Genghis John.pdf

Edited August 23, 2010 by Royal

[Royal]

Recently I've come across a number of documents/presentations that are directly from Boyd. If there's any interest, let me know; I'll upload the rest of what I've found.

Here's a pretty interesting interview with the Col from the early 70s.

BOYD 23 May 1973 Interview.pdf

[Royal]

I just stumbled across this gem. I haven't had the chance to read it yet, but it looks golden. Boyd's "Aerial Attack Study"

[Guest cain1683]

John Boyd is a personal hero of mine who receives little to no credit within the halls of the big Air Force because he did not play the game, however, if you fly a fighter aircraft in today's Air Force you have no one more important to thank than Col John Boyd. Even more, if EM means anything to you, rate/radius, etc. I was disturbed as I recently spent a few hours at the National Air Force Museum, and not a single word on any museum piece made mention of Boyd. We have an OODA Loop on Maxwell, EM diagrams in every 3-3, Fighter Weapons School, Maneuver Warfare, Desert Storm, etc, but no mention of John Boyd in any official Air Force document I have ever read. Seems wrong.

Ironic too, considering one of the things he apparently used to say was "either be someone, or do something... you can't have both" (or words to that effect).

Cain

[LockheedFix]

We have an OODA Loop on Maxwell, EM diagrams in every 3-3, Fighter Weapons School, Maneuver Warfare, Desert Storm, etc, but no mention of John Boyd in any official Air Force document I have ever read. Seems wrong.

Unfortunately in the 3-3 for both the C-130E/H and the J, the EM diagram is attributed to Col John Body...and they won't let you submit an 847 for typographical errors.

[Royal]

John Boyd is a personal hero of mine who receives little to no credit within the halls of the big Air Force because he did not play the game, however, if you fly a fighter aircraft in today's Air Force you have no one more important to thank than Col John Boyd. Even more, if EM means anything to you, rate/radius, etc. I was disturbed as I recently spent a few hours at the National Air Force Museum, and not a single word on any museum piece made mention of Boyd. We have an OODA Loop on Maxwell, EM diagrams in every 3-3, Fighter Weapons School, Maneuver Warfare, Desert Storm, etc, but no mention of John Boyd in any official Air Force document I have ever read. Seems wrong.

Ironic too, considering one of the things he apparently used to say was "either be someone, or do something... you can't have both" (or words to that effect).

Cain

Unfortunately, that's what Boyd dealt every day of his career, even when he was enlisted in Japan. He put his job on the line every time he believed in something and relentlessly smashed all the paradigms in his way, but it always paid off for the rest of us. The fact that we preach "Integrity First" and then demonize the Col for being one of the truest embodiments of integrity to have ever graced the Air Force is lamentable. However, I think Boyd's been vindicated time and time again by the fact that he was able to accomplish such a great deal and that the words from his briefings still pulse through our nation's military on a regular basis.

One of the best ways to honor his memory is to live by his words: "Ask for my loyalty and you'll get my honesty; ask for my honesty and you'll have my loyalty."

[JS]

Unfortunately in the 3-3 for both the C-130E/H and the J, the EM diagram is attributed to Col John Body...and they won't let you submit an 847 for typographical errors.

Yeah, I noticed that too.. Not only did they spell his name wrong, but the only E-M diagrams attributed to him are for the slowest, non-fighter-type aircraft out there. And to add insult to injury, the E-M diagrams are in the appendix of the C-130 3-3. I brought that section up to a few senior guys/IPs a while back, and none of them knew what the fuck I was talking about, nor had they heard of Col John Boyd or Col John Body. After all, the E-M charts are in the appendix for a reason, right - so nobody will read that part of the book or understand those concepts.

Here is to Boyd - great visionary and great officer!

Edited April 22, 2011 by JS

[Guest cain1683]

Yeah, I noticed that too.. Not only did they spell his name wrong, but the only E-M diagrams attributed to him are for the slowest, non-fighter-type aircraft out there. And to add insult to injury, the E-M diagrams are in the appendix of the C-130 3-3. I brought that section up to a few senior guys/IPs a while back, and none of them knew what the ###### I was talking about, nor had they heard of Col John Boyd or Col John Body. After all, the E-M charts are in the appendix for a reason, right - so nobody will read that part of the book or understand those concepts.

Here is to Boyd - great visionary and great officer!

For what it's worth, the EM diagrams are in the appendix of the F-15E 3-3 however flyers study and understand them well. They are an integral part of deciding how you would fight a particular adversary.

Edited April 23, 2011 by cain1683

[Duster]

All of this stuff is pure gold. Col. Boyd's tenaciousness alone should be taught to future "warriors", not to mention all of what he was able to accomplish and his outside of the container-type thinking.

This probably goes with out saying (and I know it has been discussed elsewhere on these forums) but I would highly suggest reading the book Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War. Absolutely outstanding read.

[HoHum]

I would highly suggest reading the book Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War. Absolutely outstanding read.

2.

SOS is teaching both the OODA and an 8-step decision cycle that they're trying to pawn off as an expanded OODA. Boyd might just be spinning in his grave - the whole point of OODA is to be able to make decisions faster than your enemy. If you can do that, you win the first few and get them to question their strengths, which causes them to spend time re-examining their position and makes them slower at decision-making.

[Royal]

If you don't have it yet, The Mind of War: John Boyd and American Security by Grant Hammond should be a staple in your library. It's a little less dense on the front end than Coram's book, but it really delves into a lot of detail on Boyd's briefings. Another highlight of the book is it's very well cited, so you can go back to find many of the sources The Good Colonel used in his studies. Lastly, unlike Coram, Hammond personally knew and interviewed Boyd, meaning a great deal of the information is first hand.

[guim]

Marines base alot of our tactics on Boyd. Alot of his work translated into the ground fight.