Aircraft Carrier info

[Toro]

I was just watching an interesting documentary on the Military Channel about life on a deployed aircraft carrier but they didn't talk much about the origin of the personnel. Anybody know how the makeup of the carrier works in relation to an AF deployment? AF deployed bases are pretty much made of individual squadrons from different AFBs. It seemed like everybody on the carrier was from the same location, but they never really specified. And how is the carrier commander chosen (somebody who is already a commander)?

[Baseops.Net]

This was mostly explained to me by my navy squadron mates (many of whom had served on carriers - E-2, C-2 guys, etc.)

The support personnel (non-flyers) are assigned to that ship just as if they were assigned to any other navy ship (i.e. destroyer, cruiser, etc.)

For these personnel, they go through their deployed cycle and their home cycle. They are assigned to the specific ship, so when the carrier deploys, they deploy. When it is at home (or at dry dock, etc.) they are at that ship's home station and report to the ship daily - as if it were their office, etc. Ex: The Ronald Reagan just got commissioned, as it goes through the long series of tests to get certified seaworthy, the personnel assigned there report to the ship at dock at its home station. The sea tour typically lasts 6-months, but as remember at the start of OEF a carrier was deployed for 12 or 13 months...

The navy even sends rated pilots to non-flying sea-duty tours on carriers (several of my friends at NAS CC had done this...)

As far as the CO - I don't know, but in the navy being CO of a ship (or squadron) is a much bigger deal and more formal affair than in the AF (from what I saw). There was just a ceremony in the news the other day when the Reagan got its first CO - HUGE affair highly celebrated.

The air wings that deploy come from various locations and only are part of the carrier during deployment.

[PapaJu]

Yeah once you make O-6 you have a chance to get command of a ship (even some O-5's are ship CO's). I think the carrier CO's are all former aviators though.

[Gravedigger]

To be a carrier CO, you MUST be a former Naval Aviator. I heard at one time that all carrier COs had to be aviators on carriers, not P-3s or other land based aircraft. Don't know if this is true or not.

[ellsworb]

I think that there are even some YOUNGER CO's on ships than O-5's. On some of hte smaller vessel's with smaller crews, there can be an O-3 or O-4 in command. Happens REGULARLY in the Coast Guard.

[Scooter14]

In the Coast Guard, it depends on the size(sts) of the vessel. The bigger the boat, te bigger the paycheck of the individual in charge.

My bro is a LTjg (O-2), he's an XO of a 110 foot ISLAND class cutter. His CO is a LT (O-3). If he was on an 87' cutter, he'd be the CO. Anything smaller is commanded by a CPO. He was previously on a 225' JUNIPER class buoy tender, and I think his XO was a LCDR (O-4) but selected for the next grade.

[Smokin]

For officers (at least the Surface Warfare Officers), they are assinged a certain ship, not really a particular job. During their career they move around to similar, but different jobs so they when they eventually (hopefully) command a ship, they know just about everything about everything on the ship. Not sure how it works differently for rated guys, but I'll bet that they are assigned a ship as well just like we're assigned a base.

[ 26. February 2005, 15:43: Message edited by: Stud@ENJJPT ]

[zab1000]

Carrier Skippers are former squadron Skippers. Squadron COs are O-5s. Carrier Skippers are O-6s. To be a carrier CO, you do have to be a carrier rated Naval Aviator.

Other ships are typically commanded by O-5s. Some patrol craft can be skippered by lower ranks.

[Carpetbagger]

Clancy's non-fiction book about the carriers has a lot to say about command structure. He says that an officer usually goes from a carrier squadron command to an air group command (CAG) or to a fleet ship like an oil tanker or underway replenishment vessel to re-learn how to drive a ship for a couple of years, then back to an aircraft carrier command. Both the CAG and CO are aviators (0-6). CAG being like a wing CO and the boat CO being similar to a base commander. FWIW.

[PapaJu]

Just to clarify the air wing structure-each wing (which is called Carrier Air Wing 1, 2, 3, etc) is made up of different squadrons with the different aircraft. From what I gather, the different squadrons change with each deployment. So if, for example, VFA-102 is on the Enterprise this year, they might be part of the Stennis wing the next.

[Guest TomcatDriver]

Each Carrier has one Carrier Air Wing assigned to it, but not on a permanent basis. Carriers and Wings are swapped out from time to time. Each Air Wing will typically have the following:

1 Tomcat Sqdn

3 Hornet Sqdns

1 E-2 Sqdn

1 Prowler Sqdn

1 S-3 Sqdn

1 H-60 Sqdn

additionally, a C-2 Detachment will support the Air Wing.

Air wing Composition (number of planes/squadrons) doesn't really change, just the specific squadrons assigned to that Wing.

The squadrons are definitely not from the same base. Prowlers, for example, are based on the west coast while all the Tomcats are on the east coast. Each Squadron is responsible for flying their own materials/Aircraft on and off the carrier for deployment.

Each Air Wing has a Commander and deputy commander, both O-6. The Ships skipper and XO are both O-6 also. The Air Wing Commander (CAG) is responsible for the whole Air Wing. The skipper is responsible for the ship, ships company, and the Air Wing. The skipper and the CAG work together to effectively employ the carrier.

Hope that helps

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

Obviously this is a navy question, but maybe some folks around here will know:

On the LSO's grade sheet for every landing, what does the grade "HFCDAW SHB OK" mean? I got the ok part, but everything else is pure gibberish.

Saw it near the end of the F-14 "Fighter Fling 2004" video on patricksaviation.com. Great video!

Thanks in advance

[DC]

https://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:vVbpy...lient=firefox-a

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

Oh snaps. Thanks DC

[Guest alfakilo]

Do the enlisted guys that work the flight deck do 36hour shifts?

Seems like that would be a bit risky.

[Guest hornetav8r]

Not typically. But if there's a reason, i.e. alerts get called away, the flight deck (and everyone working it) works for as long as it takes.

[Guest Scribe]

Do the enlisted guys that work the flight deck do 36hour shifts?

Seems like that would be a bit risky.

The flight deck is run by the "Handler" who is an aviator (senior 0-4 or 0-5) and he has division officers on the flight deck working side by side with the troops. Tough backbreaking and dangerous work for yellow, purple (grape), red, blue, brown, green and white shirts (all jobs have an associated color jersey), but 36 hours straight??? Navy has never instituted "Crew Rest" the way Air Force does, but you can't work people to exhaustion especially on a flight deck ("Land of the Quick and the Dead"). When carriers are operating by themselves, it usually is a long day, but when they have company, they split the commitments so they can "take a break" from the action to rest the crews.

In Desert Storm in the Red Sea, we had 3 carrriers initially before giving up America to the Persion Gulf and we rotated into a sequence to give one carrier a chance to replenish alongside and everyone to recharge. Sara and Kennedy both flew overlapping missions but crew rest was a big consideration for the flight deck. With so much planning going on, aircrews got sleep when they could. Getting a CAP hop was actually a nice break because it was a standard brief and no waiting for the ATO to be flown out and then fighting over it to get your info. Navy was way behind USAF on IT technology in 1991.

[HerkFE]

In Desert Storm in the Red Sea, we had 3 carrriers initially before giving up America to the Persion Gulf and we rotated into a sequence to give one carrier a chance to replenish alongside and everyone to recharge. Sara and Kennedy both flew overlapping missions but crew rest was a big consideration for the flight deck. With so much planning going on, aircrews got sleep when they could. Getting a CAP hop was actually a nice break because it was a standard brief and no waiting for the ATO to be flown out and then fighting over it to get your info. Navy was way behind USAF on IT technology in 1991.

Yep, remember it well. I was on the Sara for that deployment. Gone 240 days...220 at sea. That was the nail in the coffin. I knew I had to get over to Big Blue. Never regretted it either.

[Guest Scribe]

Yep, remember it well. I was on the Sara for that deployment. Gone 240 days...220 at sea. That was the nail in the coffin. I knew I had to get over to Big Blue. Never regretted it either.

The funny part for me was when we joined you in Red Sea during Desert Shield and after we got settled in, two liaisons from the F-15 Squadron at Tabuk arrived via COD to set up DACT with them. We were always used to Air Force having it so much better than us and the ship being kinda like prison life (this is before email, phonecalls home) with no visitation so you really felt cut off from back home and sometimes reality. So these guys get the tour of all the sights of life and operations aboard a carrier. Surprise was how bad they said they had it with one hot meal a day, having to use back door at gym and all sorts of substandard life. They thought life on the ship was great and since they were 0-3s, we showed them life in the 8 man bunkroom with usual reading material and refreshments, which they thought was awesome. I remember seeing them in the bunkroom having a good time before I briefed and when I looked up from CAT 3, there they were waving from Vulture's Row. They were supposed to COD off in next event which meant I'd miss them. Later at chow, there they were (they figured out the wardroom pretty quick and were literally first in line at all FOUR servings) grinning and chowing down. I asked if the COD went down and they looked at each other and said something like they relaized they needed to do more coordination on the DACT and since they weren't supposed to fly for another day, they decided to stay over another night. That was probably a first and last and we were amazed.

They also thought because their setup was so substandard that they were going to get two weeks of R&R in the Western Med in rotation (like SEA). Not sure it ever happened, but we got to "do the ditch" and rotate with Sara into two portcalls in Turkey during Desert Shield, which wasn't too bad.

[Guest bunk22]

The flight deck is run by the "Handler" who is an aviator (senior 0-4 or 0-5) and he has division officers on the flight deck working side by side with the troops. Tough backbreaking and dangerous work for yellow, purple (grape), red, blue, brown, green and white shirts (all jobs have an associated color jersey), but 36 hours straight??? Navy has never instituted "Crew Rest" the way Air Force does, but you can't work people to exhaustion especially on a flight deck ("Land of the Quick and the Dead"). When carriers are operating by themselves, it usually is a long day, but when they have company, they split the commitments so they can "take a break" from the action to rest the crews.

The handler during my last two deployments on the Lincoln was an O-4 and LDO. As with all handlers, one of th biggest dicks on the boat. His power and control got out of hand where the Admiral had to step in during the last deployment. As an OIC, I went to the CO's meetings (when on the boat of coruse ) with CAG and it was at one of those meetings where the shit hit the fan. I just sat there, the only O-4 in the room, kept my mouth shut and watched it fly. Sad that it took an O-7 to step in and make a change. Thats how much power he had.

[Guest Scribe]

The handler during my last two deployments on the Lincoln was an O-4 and LDO. As with all handlers, one of th biggest dicks on the boat. His power and control got out of hand where the Admiral had to step in during the last deployment. As an OIC, I went to the CO's meetings (when on the boat of coruse ) with CAG and it was at one of those meetings where the shit hit the fan. I just sat there, the only O-4 in the room, kept my mouth shut and watched it fly. Sad that it took an O-7 to step in and make a change. Thats how much power he had.

Handlers can sure be a royal pain in the rear as they rule their domain with their minions that huddle around the Ouija board (see photo). Nothing moves on flight deck without the Handler's OK and he has a "Ouija Board" with scale templates of all aircraft on the ship and they put little nuts and wahsers on them to indicate status and intentions. Nobody outside his team seems to know what they mean. As a deployed aviator 0-3 or below, you had to go there and stand Integrity Watches whenever flight ops were secured. You were supposed to walk around and periodically check to make all the aircraft had proper number of tie down chains and they were secure. Really fun job at night and/or inclement weather. In the hey day of chain smoking aboard ship, you seriously ran the risk of secondary smoke lung disease because the small compartment was filled with chain smokers and smoke filled the air like fog.

Only guy that can be a bigger PITA and trumps the Handler is the Air Boss, but that's another story. I used to think they sent them to a school like DIs to be trained like Pit Bulls.

[brickhistory]

I got to spend several weeks aboard the USS Kitty Hawk in the mid-90s. Thought it was thoroughly cool, but also saw how it would get old.

IS THAT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT?

“How cool is this?!” I kept asking myself. I had always wanted to accomplish certain things in my life, kind of a “macho” checklist to perform before I died. One of those checklist items was to do an aircraft carrier take-off and landing. As an Air Force flyer, this particular item would be difficult to mark off.

Now here I was, cruising at 21,000 feet, at night, in the US Navy’s E-2C “Hawkeye” airborne command and control aircraft. A short time ago, I had tugged my harness as snug as I could and felt the power and unbelievable acceleration of the cat shot throwing the Hawkeye from a dead stop to 140 kts in just 1.2 seconds. The roar of the two Allison T-56 turboprops rushed through the open overhead hatch. Open so that in the event of a “cold” cat shot where the Hawkeye wasn’t thrown off the deck fast enough but rather just dribbled off the bow and into the water, then we in the mission crew compartment had a chance to get out before a) the oncoming 98,000 tons of carrier ran over us or b) the E-2C sank like a rock.

The USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) was the forward Pacific-based carrier due to the USS Independence’s need for maintenance back in the states. Almost ten years ago, I was based on the Japanese island of Okinawa with my AWACS squadron. In the time-honored tradition of drinks at the O’Club, the Navy and Air Force fliers hatched a plan to have some fun. For the Air Force, we got to experience life aboard ship and the fascinating world of Naval aviation. For the Navy guys, a chance to get off the “boat” for a few weeks was a welcome relief. Thus my being in the seat of the Hawkeye.

Once everything worked as advertised, we put the hatch back in, rotated our seats from the fore-and-aft take-off and landing position to the side-saddle working position. The cramped interior of the small Navy bird was very different than the 707-based E-3 AWACS that I normally crewed. I faced my scope and tried to remember the instructions I’d had prior to my flight. Since this whole adventure was in the nature of a “boondoggle,” I wasn’t expected to be a fully trained Hawkeye crewmember, but it would still be a point of pride to pull my weight during the mission. Luckily for me, my tasks during the mission involved mainly working the radios to check-in and out the practice strike mission the Kitty Hawk had launched behind us.

Following the next 45 extremely busy minutes, we had a break between “pushes” of aircraft. The flights we had just directed needed time to recover aboard the carrier and the next set of attack aircraft would need time to launch. Such a launch and recovery sequence is called a “cycle.” Typically, a Hawkeye could cover two or more cycles during its mission.

Rotating my seat again so I could look out the porthole to my right, I noticed the full moon shining like a huge pearl over the South China Sea. The silvery light illuminated the water far below and made it look like a soft carpet.

It took a few minutes before I noticed the first few sparks from the exhaust of the starboard engine. Since I had the only window in the back and it was in line with the gaping hole of the exhaust, I was the only one that could have noticed anything and then only if I was looking in the right spot.

Now on the pre-flight walk-around, the jet exhibited all the griminess one would expect. The exhaust ports were no exception. A thick layer of carbon coated the both ports and when I noticed the first sparks, I thought that it simply might be a few flecks of the carbon flaking off. Also, as the Air Force guy, I didn’t want the Navy crew to think I was too nervous.

Watching the exhaust for what seemed like hours, but was only a few more minutes, I had just about convinced myself that I imagined the sparks since no more appeared. My sigh of relief caught in my throat however, because a veritable shower of sparkling bits started pouring from the exhaust.

“Is that supposed to do that?” I asked Bill, the CICO (combat information control officer) and my unofficial handler for the flight.

Bill’s eyes widened appreciably when he saw what I was pointing to. A quick call to the flight deck informed them of the sparks. The two pilots scanned the engine instruments but nothing showed amiss but they turned toward the boat just in case. Unfortunately, we were a good 100 miles away so it was still going to be a little while until we got home. Bill and I kept monitoring the shower of tiny sparks trying to determine what they might be.

While still in the turn towards home, a big bang and almost solid wall of the sparks departed the right engine and the flight deck relayed that the number two (right) engine was overheating and they were shutting it down. Implicit in that call was a “put your chutes on” command.

Now I’d already checked off the parachute jump on my “to do” list. This was a bit more than I had bargained for. The E-2 didn’t have a particularly good record for crew surviving bailouts in the five or six times it had been done. Jumping at night over water in unfamiliar survival equipment was not something I wanted to add to my life’s experiences.

We finally got back to the boat and since the one remaining engine was still humming along, every other aircraft from the recently launched cycle was brought back aboard first. This way, if we had a fender bender getting aboard and fouled the flight deck, then we would be the only one inconvenienced. Hey, the military’s creed is “service before self.”

Now I had already been in the jet for an arrested wire landing or “trap.” Just as catapulting off was an overload of all your senses, so too was landing aboard a carrier. The adrenaline rush from concentrating on landing a big airplane on such a small space that was running away from you at 25-30 mph, the seat harness digging into your shoulder and crotch because they have been snugged down so hard to keep you from pitching through the windshield after the stop all sent inputs into your racing brain.

Add in the knowledge that in the E-2 (and closely related C-2 cargo hauler) had very precise parameters that had to be met to get aboard and the pucker factor was high.

Because the E-2’s long, straight wings were so wide, nearly spanning the entire landing area of the deck, the “box” that the wings had to fit in was only four feet square. In other words, the pilot had to have the wings within four feet of centerline and no more than four feet above the touchdown zone for a successful trap. Outside that box, and the E-2 would have to go-around or bolter in Navy parlance.

With only one engine turning, the odds of a successful bolter were slim so all of us in the hurting Hawkeye willed the pilot to be the best he’d ever been.

He was and the abrupt stop was the most welcome sensation I’d had in a long time.

It turned out that the turbine tips within the engine had been gouged by something and were starting to strike the linings of the casing. My lucky spying of the sparks and the crews’ focusing on the imminent failure saved a few seconds when the engine finally did unglue. Those seconds saved by not having to react, then diagnose, and then respond probably kept the engine from a catastrophic failure and really ruining our night.

So in the end I’m glad I got my carrier experience, but I still think that I picked the right military service for me. I am thankful that the Navy does what they do and they do it so well. I have checked off a few more from my list and am working on the rest. Anyone have a spare $20 million so I can go into space?

[Guest bunk22]

Handlers can sure be a royal pain in the rear as they rule their domain with their minions that huddle around the Ouija Only guy that can be a bigger PITA and trumps the Handler is the Air Boss, but that's another story. I used to think they sent them to a school like DIs to be trained like Pit Bulls.

My last boss was my old Skipper so he wasn't so bad..........still bad but had some sympathy for the fat kids. My only near mid-air in 8 years flying at the boat was during 01, with the Vinson. That air boss would never respond to "Boss", it was tower or nothing. So the call goes out...'99, taking the Password first'......and a nuggest askes 3 times........'Boss, is the COD going first?'........no answer of course. I'm in the right seat and I keep telling my pilot to watch for the hornet as we come out of STBD D. This guy was a great ball flyer but had little SA. He kept wing dipping to the left to look but didn't see him. We saw him as he passed about 100' above us. In retrospect, I should have just rogered and said, yeah, PW first. The Boss almost cost all of us due to his being an ass.

[Guest Scribe]

Holy Sh__! Both these stories belong in Apporach magazine. Brick, that was very illuminating and Navy just lost an E-2C recently. Doesn't happen very often, but the bailout problem is an issue and I had a neighbor who turned down command after losing a close friend and having experienced several close calls with smoke in the cockpit. I have one E-2C ride from the ship and I admit to feeling very helpless as that ass end shaked and shimmied at full power at night on the Cat before launch...Bunk22, I feel just as helpless sitting backwards in a COD landing or taking off with little clue as to what's going on.

[Guest bunk22]

I flew C-2's off the boat at night for a short period, just over 100 traps (left and right seat combined) and cats. I've had 4 single engines (1 flameout, 2 shut downs, 1 no relite) but none at the boat thank god. Specifically, none at the boat at night.....really thank god. Night traps sucked enough as it was but doing it single engine, no thanks. Good story.