Classic Thread - Security Forces (SFS) Tales

[MKopack]

Exactly, the only time to be cordial to the cops is when you are guilty of whatever it is they are talking to you about.

Otherwise, if you are truly innocent, never, ever let them be insubordinate to you. In case you haven't looked at your LES or shoulders lately, you are a commissioned officer and you have the authority and expectation to stop them from being disrespectful toward you. I don't give a shit if it is the sky cops, some dipshit finance troop or the guy that slaps the scrambled eggs on your plate at the chow hall, the second you allow yourself to be treated this way, you are undermining the authority of all officers. If you can't man up to the unpleasantness of having to deal with situations such as these, then maybe you should consider another line of work. First and foremost, you are a commissioned officer in the United States Air Force, and you are expected to act like one...

Being a Commissioned Officer, makes it a pretty cut-and-dried situation, but although I never went past E-4 Sergeant I still wouldn't have put up with this kind of disrespect. We had to be a bit careful about how we "addressed the issue", but I served in a couple of squadrons where we knew our First Shirt and OIC's had our backs. Crewing the Col.'s jet didn't hurt either...

A couple of us had a 'run in' one night with a couple of SP's who decided to "flagrantly exceed their authority" on the flightline. Next evening when we came into work the whole AMU was called out in front of the building for a 'butt-kissing fest' by said SP's and their NCOIC. I never found out who had the horsepower to pull that off, but other than some dirty looks, our SP problems declined dramatically.

Mike

[Herk Driver]

I remember reading about some old-cranium on the site who has a little card he keeps in his wallet for just this kind of a situation.

AFVA 31-231 is the Rights advisement card. No quick reference articles of the UCMJ, but M2 is correct that having a copy of that pub he links below is a good resource (CC or not).

[Guest IronMaiden]

True story. My bro was told to deleted a memory card full of pictures just because he got a head on shot of an F-22 starting up. by the way...he's f**king 13 years old...

I wouldn't know if that kind of picture would violate OPSEC or something, but I think it's bull that he had to delete all his pics of a freakin' airshow. I also know this dude who helps my bro in his photography stuff that was once approached by an SF and told to delete his memory card because he was taking pictures of a KC-135 on final approach. He wasn't even near base property...

Edited June 15, 2009 by IronMaiden

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Ah, yes...sky cops and the camera...

I was on base, parked in our Group HQ parking lot and I had brought my camera for something going on at work. I was in a flight suit (with 317 AG patches on) and walking in when one of our Herks is passing over the runway about to do a random shallow (which usually always takes the airplane right over our building at low altitude). I figured what a great picture...to have a Herk right overhead at 500' in a tight bank, so as it flew overhead I snapped a picture of it. There were no details of the base or flightline...just a C-130 and sky.

I guess a skycop saw me take the picture and he and his partner rode over with their lights on, and asked me if I took a picture...I responded "yes, I took a picture of one of the airplanes I fly". He said that I needed to delete my memory card because I had just taken a picture of something "sensitive". I told him I thought we were only forbidden from taking pictures of the flightline, and he said that since the airplane is normally parked on the flightline, it's considered part of the flightline. I then said I have lots of pictures of C-130s at home, and he said "you aren't supposed to have any pictures of C-130s in your home" and proceeded to tell me that I wasn't authorized to be snooping around taking pictures of C-130s.

Anyways, I lost a bunch of other photos, including some of my kids and family, and he even called in to the LE desk to see if I should be taken in for questioning. Luckily someone at the SFS was smarter than that and said no, but I was still looking at these kids asking "WTF".

On a side note, I remember I had to drop off something for a friend of mine that worked up in the tactics office. I knocked on the door and some idiot from the other squadron cracked the door open and asked what I wanted. I said "hey, is so-and-so here?" and he said "no, come back later". I asked if I could leave him a message, but the guy wouldn't let me in the office...I said "all you've got to do is escort me in" and he said "sorry, you're not permitted here, this is a classified area". I almost wanted to say "look dude, I'm a Herk pilot, you're a Herk pilot...I come in here to read the 'classified' documents on a regular basis, so knock it off with the secret squirrel stuff" but I just rolled my eyes and walked away.

It's amazing how people can be total morons when they are trying to act more important than they actually are.

[Goblin]

Just saw this yesterday, thought the comparison was funny

[lj35driver]

Keesler had DUI signs at the two primary gates which listed the offending sqd and the number of days since the last one. Said sqd had to update the day count by 0700 everyday. The boards were mysteriously taken down after two consecutive DUI's by the SFS.

[tac airlifter]

My wife was riding her bike on a bike trail here tonight and got pulled over by SF troops. Apparently you must wear a reflective belt at night while riding a bike on Hurlburt. Nevermind that the bike itself has reflective surfaces screwed on, or that she was on the sidewalk/bike trail and therefore not in danger of coming into contact with a car. And nevermind that forcing her to walk the bike home in the dark made her feel unsafe and uncomfortable walking through the pitch black alone. Stupid SF and stupid faggoty base rules.

[XL0901]

Ok so one night walking my dogs on base and came across a baby rattle snake...I'm talking new born...on the front steps of the CDC (actually my dogs found it first). I gave it a wide bearth and headed home. On my way I saw a SFS car and two cops on the side on the road (God only knows what they were doing). I told them about the snake at the CDC and explained what I thought was the obvious concern having a baby rattle snake at the CDC. Where there is one there are probably many more and one very large mama snake. They proceeded to look at me like I was an idiot but I force them to call it in. They acted like I was wasting their time but told me it would be taken care of. I went home.

The next morning (Monday) I called the CDC first thing expecting (not sure why) that they had been informed. The CDC worker freaked out and yelled in the background to her co-workers to bring the kids inside and look around the building. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks a possible rattlesnake den around the CDC is a problem...but I doubt it. Anyway it wouldn't have taken much to get the word out but instead they decided their time was better used smoking a cig on the side of the road. I don't have kids but I can only image the parents of those kids would have been pretty pissed off had they known about it.

[HU&W]

Story time...

We just PCS'd from overseas to our UPT base. A few days ago we picked up our car. Just got the car up to the base after the four day weekend for the first time. Today we entered the base and were greeted by the civilianized SFS.

SFS guy (upon taking our ID's): I told you already that you need to get your plates changed. I can't keep letting you on base. (first time I've met the guy)

Me: These are PCS shipping plates. I have a USAREUR issued registration that backs them for stateside driving until XXXX (date).

SFS guy (getting the angry voice): I told you over two weeks ago!

Me: Are you sure about that?

SFS guy: Yes. You have only thirty days from the first time I tell you to get your plates changed.

Me: You know, I just picked up this vehicle this weekend.

SFS guy: Well when did you get to the base?

Me: Does it matter? I couldn't have changed the plates before getting the vehicle.

SFS guy: **says nothing, hands back ID and salutes**

Me: **Takes back ID, returns salute, and drive away**

I'm always amazed at how crazy people can get when they think they know something and feel they need to enforce it.

[Guest AV8RAHL]

When I was flying the T-6, we got weather diverted, in a TAC Form ride, to Altus. When we got to Altus 3 out of the 4 of us realized we had no Flight Caps. So, the fourth decided he wouldn't wear his, as to make us stand out. So we walk from the flight line to the Chow Hall, 2 IP's and 2 Students, encounter no problems, eat our lunch and start the 1/4 mile walk back to the flightline, halfway to the flightline, SFS car pulls up along side us. He was a 2LT SFS. He says to us, "Where's your cover?" One of the Captains (IP) says, "we weather diverted, flight caps aren't with us". SFS guy says while pointing, "Clothing supply is that way!" IP says while pointing, "Our plane is that way!" And we walked away!

[Toro]

SFS guy says while pointing, "Clothing supply is that way!" IP says while pointing, "Our plane is that way!" And we walked away!

F***ing awesome.

[skinny]

Toro, you should know what I'm talking about when I tell this story....

About 9 months ago construction began on our new facility which meant taking away about 25 parking spots making the parking (not walking) problem that much worse around where I work. Some days the only option was to find yourself an unobtrusive parking spot. Well I ended up getting a couple of parking tickets and about a month ago got a nice note from pass and ID that my on-base driving privileges would be suspended for 90-days. I had every intent of appealing it with the MSG/CV, approval authority, but when I asked about the appeals process I was told that the only way you get a hearing is if you can prove your innocence (they'd rather not attempt to fix the underlying problem). I wasn't denying my guilt but wanted to bring the situation to light to those who don't step foot out of their offices and have a parking spot reserved wherever they need to go on base.

So rather than schedule the hearing, I decided to go around and take pictures of the hideous parking situation, the illegal parking that blocks access for emergency vehicles, and the ridiculous amount of reserved parking that goes unused and emailed them to the MSG/CV. I also mentioned the fact that the last guy to write me a ticket told me that while he understood the crap parking situation, he would not be writing me a ticket if it wasn't for the UCI going on. WTF...

In reply I got "Parking enforcement lacks consistency overall as we ticket based on complaints, targets of opportunity, manning, other tasks, etc. Driving suspension stands at 90-days." Mind you this is the entire KMC area...not just Ramstein.

I'm probably just bitching here but it just kind of chapped my ass that I made an attempt at offering suggestions that could help the parking on this base and was given the stiff arm. Long story short, not being able to drive on base flat out blows.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Toro

[Toro]

Toro, you should what I'm talking about when I tell this story....

About 9 months ago construction began on our new facility which meant taking away about 25 parking spots making the parking (not walking) problem that much worse around where I work.

Yup. I'd like to nut-punch every idiot that uses that stupid phrase, "We don't have a parking problem, we have a walking problem."

Horseshit. Every douchebag that says this has his own parking spot. I say take away every reserved parking spot on base and it will become overwhelmingly obvious we have a parking problem.

[Spoo]

Yup. I'd like to nut-punch every idiot that uses that stupid phrase, "We don't have a parking problem, we have a walking problem."

Horseshit. Every douchebag that says this has his own parking spot. I say take away every reserved parking spot on base and it will become overwhelmingly obvious we have a parking problem.

Never heard that phrase, but I hate it. What, you don't think "Yard of the Month" should get a parking spot at the BX?

I remember my old squadron. There were no fewer than 6 handicap spaces in front. No shit. This was a FLYING squadron. Anyway, I had a cop yell at me for parking in one while running into the squadron (w/ flashers on) to grab something I forgot. The other five were empty.

Cop: You know that's a handicap spot sir?

Me: Yeah, sorry I forgot something. Didn't think they would all fill up while I was in the building.

Cop: (dirty look - drives away)

[Guest Alarm Red]

Guess which squadron this asshat worked for? Hint: it wasn't services.

Airman gets 15 months for Misawa vandalism

By T.D. Flack, Stars and Stripes

Pacific edition, Friday, July 31, 2009

The last of three airmen court-martialed for a vandalism spree that officials say strained relations with Japanese police was sentenced to 15 months in prison on Wednesday.

Airman 1st Class Michael T. Kerr — of the 35th Security Forces Squadron — pleaded guilty to conspiracy, failure to obey an order, housebreaking, obstruction of justice and damaging or destroying U.S. government property.

The judge, Col. Mark L. Allred, also ordered that Kerr, 20, be given a bad-conduct discharge, be reduced to the rank of E-1 and forfeit all pay and allowances.

The charges stemmed from two incidents earlier this year.

On Jan. 31, Kerr and Senior Airman Koby A. Torzillo did more than $70,000 worth of damage to the base golf course at Misawa, using golf carts, a snowmobile, tractor and backhoe to wreak havoc. Days later, they talked co-worker Airman 1st Class Jessie M. Holt into joining them in an off-base vandalism spree. They smashed car windows, damaged vending machines and broke into a local high school to steal various items.

Torzillo was court-martialed in May and sentenced to one year in jail, forfeiture of $933 per month during confinement, reduction to E-1 and a bad-conduct discharge. Holt was court-martialed earlier in July and was sentenced to 10 months in jail, reduction to E-1 and a bad-conduct discharge.

Maj. Dustin Sutton, Misawa’s Security Forces commander, testified Wednesday that the off-base vandalism strained relations with the Japanese National Police because the defendants were Security Forces members. He explained that a strong working relationship is vital to the security of the base, since the JNP patrol outside the gates.

The U.S. Air Force did not charge the airmen for alleged crimes committed off base, only for conspiring to vandalize the community and for the crimes that occurred on base.

A Japanese police spokesman declined to comment on the issue Wednesday, because the Japanese investigation into the case is ongoing.

[Mambo]

Sky cops just posted their second DUI at the Rock inside of 6 months...way to go boys!

[Guest Cap-10]

So $70,000 of damage divided by 3 is $23,333.33 (repeating of course)...I would push for forfeiture of full month pay until your 1/3 is paid off as a start for length of jail time. During that time, they should be on a work detail that makes them fix their shenanigans...not sure how long it will take 3 guys to re-sod a golf course, and replace windows, and clean graffiti'ed walls, and replace vending machines, but i bet its lots of back-braking, physical labor. Do the crime, do the time!!!

Good luck flipping bugers when you get out boys, and yes I would like fries with that!

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Wolf424]

I have to vent this. Sky cops got me.

I got to The Rock back on the 19th. Anyone who has been/currently is stationed here knows they have a large 4 lane road just past the gate going into the heart of the base that is on a hill. Flash forward two days, I am driving off base for maybe the 2nd time. I get to the top of the hill going down, and I hit 35 so I let off the gas and coast just about all the way to the gate. As I approach, the blue lights flash and I get pulled over. I'm thinking random inspection. So I pull over, and the rent-a-cop comes up and asks me if I know why I was pulled over. I politely say no, I did not. He says I was speeding. So I say, "I'm pretty sure I wasn't, the speed limit is 35 right?" He says yeah, but you were going 42. So at this point, I have the "Are you shitting me, 7 over?" look on my face. But here is the part that blew my mind. He says "When I first clocked you when you first came over the hill, you were going 35, but by the time you got to the bottom of the hill, you were going 42." I say, OK, let me play the dumb, new LT card. It doesn't work, and I get slapped with a 7 over ticket. As he gives it to me, he says "Just remember sir, we are here to ensure your safety." At least the shirt laughed when I give it to him.

[sky_king]

If I'm in front of a cop on base, I make it a point now to stop for at least 10 seconds at a stop sign before moving on. And then I drive 10 mph below the speed limit. I actually cannot wait until I get pulled over for going too slow.

[Boxhead]

If I'm in front of a cop on base, I make it a point now to stop for at least 10 seconds at a stop sign before moving on. And then I drive 10 mph below the speed limit. I actually cannot wait until I get pulled over for going too slow.

It may happen, the things you are saying are classic drunk driver indications...they will pull you over with more than enough probable cause, and then relase you when you are found not drunk. Unless of course, if you are drunk. Then you are screwed.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

One more skycop story...

A buddy of mine is getting ready to deploy to Afghanistan on a 365-day deployment. Among the requirements, he is supposed to bring an M4 in addition to an M9. I'm working his deployment from our XP shop, and we attempt to find an M4 for him since our group doesn't have one. We call the host SFS to see if they have M4s, and they say the do, although they can't loan us one because these weapons are required for base defense. So we bring it up to our AG/CC and he says "basically, they are telling us our guy going to Afghanistan to fight in a real war can't have an M4, because they need them here to defend Mulberry?". We elevate the issue to the BW/CC and we're still told no. In the end, we send him downrange with a GAU-5, similar to an M4 but not exactly what he needed.

The main problem I had with the SFS dudes was their attitude. They were very, very serious about the need to keep those weapons in Abilene, TX, and didn't even blink when they vomited that BS about the need for "base defense". Yes, I hear Abilene TX has a serious al Qaeda threat...

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I remember when I was at Sather Air Base in Baghdad, the LSA (living area) was restricted to only those with a "Sather badge". The idea was to keep out those who didn't live there and keep the area cleaner, as well as reduce any threats to the pods and tents. OK, no biggie, I understand the thinking given all the Army dudes running around that seem to like breaking stuff.

Anyways, we're at the chow hall when an AMC Herk crew rolls in, their airplane is broke. One of the other pilots knows the AC (we're Herk guys assigned to advising the Iraqi AF), and so after eating we decide we'll escort the broke crew onto the LSA so they can swing by billeting (which is located on the LSA). Normally these guys would have to go by PERSCO and get a temp pass, but we all have the "escort" sticker on our badges.

We get to the gate and the skycop there says the broke AMC crew can't come on the LSA. We remind him that we have escort privileges, and he states "do you have your escort letter". OK, background info...the "escort letter" is simply a letter stating we attended TCN/LN escort class (we did attend, but we didn't have our letters since we rarely escorted TCN/LNs onto the LSA). I tell the skycop that the "escort letter" is only required if we're escorting TCNs or LNs, and he says "no, SIR (turns on the sir machine), you have to have that letter to escort anyone".

My buddy, who's an O-4, tells the E-5 skycop that all of these AMC dudes have military IDs, they are being escorted by US military officers with military IDs and Sather badges with the escort stickers on them, so what's the problem. None of the AMC dudes even look remotely like a TCN or LN. The skycop starts to yell at the O-4 and tell him that he is not authorized to escort these obviously American military personnel onto the LSA without the "escort letter", and ends his rant with a loud "SIR!".

The O-4 is now about to come unglued and do something stupid, and he realizes this, so he backs up, takes a deep breath, and tells the skycop to stop having an attitude with him, and the cop responds by saying the O-4 is the one with the attitude (SIR!). The rest of us advisors are telling him "look, lets just go to PERSCO" before something bad happens, like a fist fight. So he backs down and we take the guys by PERSCO.

Later I mention it to my boss, and he knows the AEG/CV. A day or two later, my boss tells me the AEG/CV backs up our position that an "escort letter" is only required when escorting TCNs/LNs (to verify that you did indeed have the training to escort potential bad guys). We never see that cop at the LSA's ECP again, although we know he's still there because we occasionally see the jacka$$ on Sather. Other cops (who are cool) verify that this guy is one of the dudes that gives the SFS a bad name.

[Guest harleyusaf]

Hi guys,

I stumbled upon this forum when browsing Airforceots.com. A little background about myself: I've been in the Air Force for six years now, all as an enlisted Security Forces member. I did not choose to be Security Forces, but it can be a good career field. I was picked up for a commissioned slot as a Security Forces officer, which was once again not my first choice - but I don't mind it.

I've read a few responses and they are good reads. I enjoy some of the stories because I've seen the majority of them with my own eyes. I enjoy playing the role of Devil's advocate; so here goes! The SF career field is the biggest of all the enlisted and as many of you have mentioned the spectrum of personalities varies from complete dirtbag to highspeed. It is true that SF has one of the lowest ASVAB scores, but that, to me, does not mean the person is stupid. "Stupid" is very subjective; not everyone grew up in a padded lifestyle and had the access to education of others. For example, I am not mechnical at all, so I am impressed with someone who is mechanically-inclined, even though the majority of society does not necessarily see them as intelligent. I have never called someone stupid in my life, nor will I ever, because everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.

Now, getting back to the topic at hand, some of the policies implemented by Security Forces are pretty silly. The situations can be exponentially worse dependant on the posture adopted by the patrolman and the pride of the subject. What most people don't understand, however, is the majority of the policies adopted by SF units are a direct reflection of higher-ups from different career-fields and the wingking him or herself. As an example from some of the stories I've read on this topic: vehicle searches. We (Security Forces) have Random Anti-Terorrism Measures daily that include random searches of vehicles entering or already on the installation. The SF individual who pulled the individual over was performing a duty passed down from the Installation Commander. It is also a policy that personnel do not watch searches of SF on vehicles (which would explain isolation in the room - although I don't understand why it was pitch black). I've seen some patrolman abuse their authority and talk down to people, which was probably the case. Any property located in the vehicle can be searched, to include personal possessions. It is your right as United States Citizen to refuse any search, however, know there are rammications for an active refusal (loss of driving privileges - plus nine times out of ten JAG will be notified and you'll be searched anyhow).

I've also read some stories on denying individuals to leave during alarms, or other policies regarding ID cards, etc. Believe me, we as SF know these are silly policies. With that being said, it is also our responsibility to enforce these policies whether we agree with them or not - it's part of being a professional. I've seen and been placed in situations where I was relaxed on some of the policies and have been in trouble. Please keep in mind the SF personnel are not intending to offend you when asking to see your ID, or anything along those lines - they are just performing their duty. I've had situations where I've been yelled at by higher-ranking individuals for many of the stories mentioned, but ultimately the responsibility falls on me if I do not perform my duty. It's better to have a higher-ranking individual from outside my organization get upset than to have my own Chain of Command give me paperwork for not performing my duty. SF are famous for eating their own, and believe me they will do it in a heartbeat if they see you not enforcing standards.

My intention in this post isn't to defend the actions of some of the patrolman; I'm sure they could've went about their actions in a more dignified manner. My intention of this post is to make people realize that the patrolman is just performing their duty, because if they don't they will get in trouble. Yes, some of the policies are silly, but that is not the patolman's fault. If you do not agree with the policy, please run it up the Chain of Command because I can almost guarantee the SF member thinks it is silly too. Trust me, you'll be doing SF a favor because no one enjoys being yelled at all day everyday.

[Guest harleyusaf]

Sorry about the double-post, but I have one more issue I'd like to address. I understand that some of you have had bad run-ins with SF, and I am taking some comments with a grain of salt because I know some are upset with SF, but saying SF are no good and playing Army is pretty disrespectful. The majority of Airman dying in the AOR are SF members (not to mention serious injuries). I myself have been a gunner in the AOR and driven past spots where my fellow SF members have been hit with serious injuries and died on my daily missions. For a while, the majority of taskings in the hostile areas were "In Lieu of" taskings for the Army. You lived, breathed, and played the role of the Army because you were replacing the Army. Please keep in mind that even though you have had your differences with SF, we are all on the same side and please show respect for the fallen.

[Karl Hungus]

Sorry about the double-post, but I have one more issue I'd like to address. I understand that some of you have had bad run-ins with SF, and I am taking some comments with a grain of salt because I know some are upset with SF, but saying SF are no good and playing Army is pretty disrespectful. The majority of Airman dying in the AOR are SF members (not to mention serious injuries). I myself have been a gunner in the AOR and driven past spots where my fellow SF members have been hit with serious injuries and died on my daily missions. For a while, the majority of taskings in the hostile areas were "In Lieu of" taskings for the Army. You lived, breathed, and played the role of the Army because you were replacing the Army. Please keep in mind that even though you have had your differences with SF, we are all on the same side and please show respect for the fallen.

Nobody is disrespecting skycops outside the wire, doing what they are paid to do. That is as honorable a mission as it gets. People hate the gayness inside the wire- the mindless speed traps, the stupid searches, the day-to-day retardation of your typical mouthbreathing skycop (no offense, you seem to be the exception to the rule). Kudos for showing up here, and I ask that you take the stories in this thread to heart, so that when you're an officer in charge of these young airmen you can prevent such douchebaggery from happening.