Classic Thread - Security Forces (SFS) Tales

[abmwaldo]

Time to drop the first SFS tale of thew new year. So I've attained a new additional duty which requires me to access several different restricted areas on the flight line. So I obtain a letter, from my security manager, stating that I need access to areas X,Y,Z for A reason. He signs it and then I proceed to route the form to the appropriate offices to obtain the necessary signatures to give me access to those areas. All is signed and ready to go until I stop by the cop shop to get the badge made. They take one look at my badge and tell me that it has to be signed by my squadron commander; now the areas I'm requesting access to are not under my CCs purview. So, having done my due diligence, I looked up the appropriate AFI before and brought a high lighted copy stating that "either squadron commander OR designated representative," which my security manager is, can sign the letter requesting access. The cop then breaks out a wing OI (which is dated prior to the AFI) stating that it must be the squadron commander. In this case would the AFI supersede the wing OI or did I get "out-shoed."

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

So there I am halfway through T-6s at DLF. It's about 2am and I'm deep asleep in what's known in the non-cop world as "crew rest". Anyway, I hear an absolute POUNDING on my door, followed by ringing of my doorbell, followed by more knocking on my door. I grab my just-in-case device and go to the door to see if my house is on fire and someone is trying to let me know, or what of equal importance could POSSIBLY necessitate the near kicking in of my door.

So I crack the door open and A1C Fvcknuts is out there, and as soon as he sees me he points at my car that's parked in the street. "SIR! Is that your vehicle??!" I reply in the affirmative. He then proceeds to tell me that it's parked opposite the direction of traffic and must be moved IMMEDIATELY. YGBFSM! I'm in MFing crew rest with a 6am show time, and you wake me up at 2am to tell me my car is pointed the wrong direction while PARKED on a residential street with almost NO traffic, and certainly not at that time of the night. I told him it would be moving in 3.5 hours when I got in it to drive it to work. He says "No SIR, you must move it NOW, or I'll be forced to write you a ticket!" AYFKM! I'm too pissed at this tard to argue anymore, so I moved the car. The next morning I go to my flt/cc and let him know what happened. Got word back from him reassuring me that the SFS/CC has said such things would not happen again.

I realize I was in the wrong, but this is really one of those situations where a little discretion would have gone a long way, or just write me a ticket and get it over with! Definitely don't kick my door halfway in just to tell me to move my effing car in the middle of the night!

[BQZip01]

Prepared response for next time, "Oh. My bad. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. <tosses keys to Airman Bagocrap> Would you be so kind as to park it in a more acceptable place? I'm so tired and am in no condition to drive. You're such a great comrade to have around to look out for us while we sleep. Send me an e-mail tomorrow to remind me to write you a Letter of Commendation."

In short, flatter the SOB and put all the pressure on him to move the car for you. If/when he refuses, you can now go to your commander and tell him you were under the impression he was there to help you and you showed nothing but admiration for such a difficult job when the lowest-ASVAB, M-16 wielding brain donor basically spit in an officer's face and said "shove it". A potentially shining moment when SFS would actually help aircrew was turned into an Article 15...or worse.

...but the canceling of sorties due to an SFS screwup will also get the Wing King's attention faster than a 3-titted stripper.

[magnetfreezer]

...but the canceling of sorties due to an SFS screwup will also get the Wing King's attention faster than a 3-titted stripper.

Will this fly (no pun intended)? Had an instructor who got legitimately interrupted in the middle of the night since he was security manager and the cops called him to deal with a vault alarm. Ruling was he didn't break crew rest since the cops didn't know about crew rest (i.e. it would only have counted if he got an official call from the squadron about something).

[Toro]

Will this fly (no pun intended)? Had an instructor who got legitimately interrupted in the middle of the night since he was security manager and the cops called him to deal with a vault alarm. Ruling was he didn't break crew rest since the cops didn't know about crew rest (i.e. it would only have counted if he got an official call from the squadron about something).

It will absolutely fly.

AFI 11-202 Vol 3

9.7.3. Crew Rest Interruptions. Any official business required of an aircrew member interrupts the crew rest period. This includes official business conducted on the telephone. If crew rest is interrupted so that an individual cannot get an opportunity for at least 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep, the individual must be afforded the opportunity for at least 8 more hours of uninterrupted sleep plus reasonable time to dress, eat, travel, etc. Any crew rest interruptions must be made only under the most exceptional circumstances.

Your instructor's rationale is flat wrong since he was going into the squadron to do official duties and you would clearly have a case against that idiot cop.

[Danny Noonin]

How would the cops know you were in crew rest?

You knew you parked wrong? Maybe you should put a sign on your windshield that says I’m in crew rest don’t bother me.

Wow. I'm hoping that's a weak attempt at sarcasm. If not, I bet your flight boots are really shiny and you are wearing an academy ring right now. You apparently are fine with tossing common sense out the window in favor of strict adherence to "the rules."

The friggin cop knocked on his door at 2 in the morning to tell him his car was parked wrong. It wasn't on fire, it wasn't blocking traffic, it wasn't unsafe. It was parked in the wrong direction. Big whoop.

The fact that he was in pilot rest is really an irrelevant part of the story. The issue is whether a cop should wake ANYONE up in the middle of the night because a car is parked in the wrong direction. Doesn't matter if you're a pilot flying the next day or an A1C working in finance. No one should have to put up with that kind of crap. Are you telling me that you wouldn't be royally pissed off if that cop knocked on your door in the middle of the night? So whether the cop should or should not have known he was in pilot rest is irrelevant.

[outbreak]

I'll blame anyone who thinks its a good idea to wake anyone up at 2am in a non-emergency situation. That's freakin retarded no matter how you look at it or who you are. Car parked in the wrong direction is hardly an emergency.

This is the kind of bullshit I avoid by living off base. I've lived on base, and I'll never make that mistake again.

[BQZip01]

It will absolutely fly.

AFI 11-202 Vol 3

Your instructor's rationale is flat wrong since he was going into the squadron to do official duties and you would clearly have a case against that idiot cop.

Toro, props to you on this one. It is not the student or instructor's call on the crew rest issue. It was busted: period. I'd have to check the reg, but I believe the OG can waive it, but you need his/her permission FIRST (and you'd probably get it), but that is an issue where leadership gets to make the call. That plane and your butt is their responsibility and they have a right to know about it and clear you, if necessary.

I have had a guy in my squadron nearly thrown out of training for flying after busting crew rest. Others have simply shown up later than the crew brief and appropriately explained it as, "I was here late last night and couldn't call you guys because it would violate your crew rest. I came in once my crew rest was up." I had no issue with it and neither did instructors/leadership.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Toro

[AEWingsMN]

haha, i may as well add this little input about my own luck last night. I parked in front of a "No Parking Anytime" sign on my way into a party yesterday, didn't even realize it cuz i was just parking in front of all the other cars, and made sure there weren't any fire hydrants.

I went to pick up the car this morning, and saw the sign, right in between the rear and front passenger doors, almost like someone had seen my car there overnight and had stuck it there since it was the only car on the street. No ticket, but caught my eye none the less as "how the fuck did I miss that?"

[Tank]

I had a student get a ticket when I was a Flt/CC at Vance for going against the arrows in the Commissary parking lot. His actual ticket said going "driving opposite direction on a one-way street". Now, I don't know about you, but I didn't realize that a parking lot was a street and then getting a ticket for doing that was even possible. The good thing though is that I took it to the Sqd/CC who called bullshit and we got the ticket taken away and the SFS got an ear full from Ops leadership. Thank God we had leaders with some balls there!

[stract]

shit, backing into parking spots is the national pastime on Okinawa. This is the first I've ever heard of getting a ticket for that...

[BQZip01]

So, there I was (WHERE WERE YOU!?)...

I was on the flightline at Minot observing some exercises going on when the call comes over the radio that they need a new power cart. Two guys with valid line badges drive up to the area's entry control point. They present their badges and ask the Security Forces guard (some 18 year old shmuck) if they can enter. He nods. They ask again expecting a verbal confirmation. He says, "Go on in."

Apparently they weren't supposed to go in and the 18 year old schmuck's buddies (19 year old schmucks) surround the vehicle with automatic weapons drawn.

Now I don't know if this was precipitated by the actions of a few brain donors at Luke AFB (https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587217,00.html), but the geniuses pull the guys out of the nice warm vehicle into a sub -15 windchill with nothing on but their ABUs. They search the vehicle and go so far as to strip down and palpate (look it up) the muslim-looking one (apparently he does have some arabic ancestry), but leave his buddy alone.

It seems to me that this kind of action is quickly going to lead to a lawsuit.

I'm sitting back to watch the fireworks. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Jughead]

I can't say that I'm happy to have a story to add to this thread, but I've just been inducted into this particular club....

SO... I'm currently in the middle of PCSing. For my last month or so at a certain AFB near Shreveport, LA, I've been staying in billeting. I have an enclosed motorcycle trailer that I use when PCSing--primarily for hauling the bikes to the new location, but it's also pretty handy for moving other stuff around and warehousing anything I don't feel like carting indoors. At the direction of the billeting desk, I parked it in the lot near the TLFs (where, at any given time for at least as long as I've been stationed here, there are around a dozen or so trailers, boats, moving vans, etc. in the lot from folks PCSing in/out).

About a week and half after parking it there, I go by to check on things--and find a "Notice of Abandoned Vehicle" taped to the trailer. Huh?? The notice says I'll be towed in 72 hours (which period had already passed). I call the number on the form (LE Desk), explain to the cop who answers that I'm PCSing, staying in Billeting, parking where I was told do so (along w/ all the other folks in similar circumstances), and that my trailer most certainly was NOT abandoned. He tells me no problem, please call the "Investigative Division" on Monday (this was Friday evening), they'll be able to clear it up. OK, so is my trailer OK where it is until then? "Yes," I'm told. So, I use the trailer a couple of times over the weekend, but I don't move it.

Monday rolls around, I call the Investigative Division--you already know where this is going, right?--only to be told that my trailer was towed "about 20 minutes ago." I hit the roof and end up on the phone w/ the (civilian) Investigative Division Chief:

- I want to know why I was towed, when I had specific direction from the LE Desk to wait until Monday. "We never got that information."

- Why didn't you contact me? "We tried, but we apparently have bad numbers for you on the Alpha roster." [which is true enough--my office moved while I was deployed, and my home/cell number had the last four of my (old) office number transposed into it; I'd no idea it was screwed up]

- Well, you didn't "try" very hard! There are any number of other ways to track me down! "Well, we have to go by what's on the Alpha roster"

- Really? That's the best "investigating" that the "Investigative Division" can do? So, I can go rob the commissary, secure in the knowledge that you'll never find me since the Alpha roster is inaccurate? [no answer]

- OK, what led you to believe that my trailer--in good condition, a current [indeed, renewed within the last month] registration, locked, no flat tires, no weeds growing up around it, and parked in the TLF lot--was "abandoned"? "Well, base regulation blah-blah-blah defines any non-driveable vehicle as 'abandoned' after 72 hours, and it had been longer than that since the notice was put up."

- You mean the notice I called about last Friday? [no answer]

- Where am I *supposed* to park while I'm a Billeting resident? "Well, the Outdoor Rec has an RV lot..."

Bottom line, it cost me $160 to ransom [exactly the correct word!] it back from the towing company. I've got a claim in w/ Legal for that (which came as no surprise to them--I'm one of about a half-dozen folks who "abandoned" their vehicles in the TLF lot and were towed that day, evidently). I won't hold my breath. If it gets denied, I'll appeal; if that gets denied, I'll file an IG complaint; when that goes nowhere... I'll drop it, as no longer worth my time/effort.

Thanks, SFS, for the wonderful service you provide....

[GoodSplash9]

So there I was about 2 hours ago at Creech AFB. Myself and two other buddies who carpooled left the squadron for the day and began the walk through the 110 degree heat to where I had parked earlier in the day. We all get in the car, I insert(sts) the keys into the ignition, and SHIT!!! Apparently I'm stupid and need an After Parking Checklist to remember to shut the headlights off after the sun comes up. My bad!

No lights, no radio, no beeping.....the battery is totally dead. So the three of us get out, and start looking for people in the parking lot with jumper cables since mine are in the garage(my bad again). We find four or five different people over about 20-25 minutes, but not a single person we could find in the parking lot had cables. One of my bros has an idea....."Why don't we call security forces, I bet they can give us a jump?". I'm thinking we don't need any gates guarded, guard shacks manned, pointless traffic tickets issued, to play cops and robbers, or to needlessly be hassled so A1C GI Joe can inflate his own ego. He calls anyway, and we all end up pleasantly surprised. They tell us they do have jumper cables and they'll be right over. So I actually felt a little bad for my stereotypical negative thoughts. I was legitimately grateful and appreciative that they were coming over to help us out.

Almost a half hour later, a patrol car rolls up. A1C Toolbag gets out and asks if we were the ones who need a jump. We proceed to thank him and tell him yep, thats us! He says just a second, let me call HQ real fast for just a second. So he gets on the phone and calls in talking for about 5 minutes. So next he walks over, and tells us "So yea, about that jump. We actually can't do that. You know, its kind of a liability issue and for safety reasons and regulations and we can't damage our car and blah blah blah." So we ask "Well, can we at least borrow the jumper cables so we can find a jump from someone else?" He says "Yea, thats fine. Let me call HQ real fast." So he calls HQ up again and talks for another 5 minutes. Walks back over and says "Yea, so about borrowing 'our' jumper cables....We can't let you do that. You know, safety first, and liability issues. We care about you, and don't want to damage any of the cars and blah blah blah."

So the three of us are fuming at this point. We've been outside(110 out) for almost an hour trying to find jumper cables.

"So your telling me you can't help out at all?" Reply "No, I'm sorry sir. Liability."

"You seriously can't even let us borrow the jumper cables for 5 minutes?" Reply "No, liability sir."

"WHAT THE HELL IS THE LIABILITY?" Reply "Personal injury and/or damage to the car, sir."

"WTF???? You realize the Air Force trusts me to fly multi million dollar aircraft around every day, and I also just so happen to be an Electrical Engineer. I don't understand the liability here, I just want some help." Reply "Sorry sir".

"Have you ever heard of the wingman concept? Or that the Air Force is supposed to be like one big happy family? Are you guys opposed to helping people?" Reply: Deer in the head lights look....

"Can we at least get a ride to the BX so we can buy a set of jumper cables?" Reply "Ummm....no. Sorry sir, thats against policy."

"Whose decision was that letting us borrow the cables would be a liability?" Reply "Capt @ssclown, our OIC sir."

Apparently Capt @$sclowns policy is that helping fellow uniformed airmen on base is a liability that should be avoided at all costs. We walked a half mile to the BX, and bought jumper cables for $20 bucks. Total fricken bs...I'm pretty sure the whole situation would have been very different had we been squadron commanders or colonels instead of LTs. Found someone else who was happy to help us out, and were on our way. I'm still kind of pissed off, and on the drive back here are the options we came up with:

1. Send an angry reply to the Capt(and the wing) summarizing the situation and donating the jumper cables so anyone who needs help in the future can use them without security forces having to accept the liability.

2. Basically the same as 1, but only send the email to the squadron summarizing the situation and donating the cables to the squadron so nobody gets screwed in the future(and hope someone in the squadron thinks its bs).

3. Walk into the Capts office while carrying the jumper cables, ask wtf his problem is and demand the regulation or document that states they couldn't provide help to us. And then donate the cables while making it clear he is a douche.

4. Target this guy with some really good pranks(take a dump in his office, slash his tires, sign him up for Playgirls at work, etc...)

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

1. Send an angry reply to the Capt(and the wing) summarizing the situation and donating the jumper cables so anyone who needs help in the future can use them without security forces having to accept the liability.

2. Basically the same as 1, but only send the email to the squadron summarizing the situation and donating the cables to the squadron so nobody gets screwed in the future(and hope someone in the squadron thinks its bs).

3. Walk into the Capts office while carrying the jumper cables, ask wtf his problem is and demand the regulation or document that states they couldn't provide help to us. And then donate the cables while making it clear he is a douche.

4. Target this guy with some really good pranks(take a dump in his office, slash his tires, sign him up for Playgirls at work, etc...)

I'm with you on your solutions; however, I would caution you to at LEAST give your DO a heads up before going VFR direct to Capt Bag-o-Douche. You do NOT want your boss to get blindsided by his boss because Capt Bag-O-Douche's boss just called him wondering why some smartass LTs were in his office bitching about jumping up and down (you know how stories get distorted). Here is how I recommend you proceed (technique only).

1. Go to your DO and tell him the story in full, preferably with names and specific words/actions of those involved

2. Advice your DO of your intentions to (professionally) confront Capt. Bag-O-Douche

3. Request ROE from your DO as applicable

4. With PID, CDE and ROE act in accordance with the SPINS.

[BQZip01]

Wondering why the cops have jumper cables thay aren't allowed to use?

Same reason they are issued a brain with the same restrictions, apparently...

1. Good on you for calling the sky cops. Horrible reaction on their part.

2. While pranks and a 4v1 BFM engagement on Capt A$$clown seem like a good idea right now, I'd advise against it.

3. Let your DO know what's going on. I haven't met many DOs in the flying world who couldn't handle this at their level without getting anyone else in an uproar (think squadron commanders and higher). The only worse thing would be to let your commander/DO get blindsided by this at the next Wing Staff meeting. Most of 'em are willing to take a little shit for you if they know the details and know you meant no harm/were trying to hack the mish/etc.

4. Let your bros know the situation with a colorful powerpoint presentation with dozens of animations an e-mail or a Friday story & let 'em know that the squadron has a new pair of Captain Assclown Memorial Jumper Cables available and they will be kept in the bar heritage room in case anyone needs them again. Hell, make a plaque and mount (sts) the damn thing on the wall in the bar.

For those who desire these cogitations in powerpoint form, get bent.

Edited September 22, 2011 by BQZip01

[Vetter]

DFP: Why did SF let me down by not giving me jumper cables?

CF: Made decision to call SF.

CF: Regulations don't allow SF to help.

CF: No jumper cables in car. (Root cause)

......IF: Carry jumper cables in car.

LL: In order to not be let down by SF in the future when I need jumper cables, I will carry jumper cables in my car.

Debriefed. Caveat = there were many other CFs...but you get the idea.

DFP = Debrief Focal Point

CF = Contributing Factor

IF = Instructional Fix

LL = Lesson Learned

Edited September 22, 2011 by Vetter

[pawnman]

I think my DO would have been on board with some mild retaliation. Necessity and proportionality need to be considered, but that doesn't mean you can't do anything.

[JarheadBoom]

1 - "Donate" those jumper cables you bought to the SQ, for use by anyone else who needs but does not have/follow an After Parking/Shutdown checklist for their POV.

2 - Have a beer and let it go. Seriously.

[guineapigfury]

I'm at scooters and one of our DDs has failed to observe the ROE. So now we have 1.5 carloads of people and 1 driver. Also, we just had an ice-storm so it is stupid cold and not a good idea to leave people, as they may well pass out and Q3 life for failing to not freeze to death. There being no available fat chicks to send Lts home with(think Luke Skywalker hiding inside the TaunTaun), we do the only sensible thing and pile all 8 of us into the one available car. We successfully evade Enid's finest until arrival at the gate. Rent-A-Cop informs us "You can't have that many people in the car, it's not safe". So we did the safe thing, which was to have 3 drunks trudge home 2 miles on icy streets.

[TreeA10]

Unload the required number of drunks to suit the Rent-A-Cop. Drunks dutifully trudge through the gate showing ID. Driver shows ID and drives through gate. Pick up aforementioned drunks. Rejoin original plan.

[BFM this]

One night, as a 20yo E3 playing DD for two of my buds, driving through the gate at Cherry Point, my bud in the back seat is passed out and visibly shithoused. When we finally got his ID, the E3 at the gate sees that Otis is also underage and waves us over to the parking lot for a sobriety check, which I obviously pass.

SNCO of the watch gets called up to the gate to confer. Once he gets the story, the exchange unfolds thus:

SNCO to Gate Guard: "So, these three were in the vehicle, and he was driving (points at me).

GG: "Yes, SSgt. That one is drunk" (points to my bud), "and his ID says he is underage."

SNCO: "But he was passed out in the back seat."

GG: "Yes, SSgt."

SNCO nods thoughtfully with a slightly pained expression: "Uh Huh." motions to the GG: "Come with me." Points to us: "You three can go."

[Toro]

Wow...has it been two years since somebody had a SFS story?

Air Force security holds granny at gunpoint at Wright Patterson

[Tnkr]

I'd be more upset if the granny was a little older. 65 isn't exactly 'granny' to me. Still a funny story.

[vsu8992]

Another story on this : https://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10/vacationing-family-pulled-over-handcuffed-at-gunpoint-by-air-force-base-security/

despite the apology, Wendy says the damage may already have been done to her son.

“My son doesn’t trust police officers now,” Wendy Hill said. “He views them as the bad guy.”

----—-------------------------------------------------

Boohoohoo.. sounds ripe for a lawsuit. Emotional damages!

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk 2

Edited April 11, 2014 by vsu8992